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*****ing *****ed up mother *****ers are *****ing the whole *****ing *****ed up ****sucking *****head *****s. And then some.

Cutting in with a rando side comment because I haven’t kept up - I’m tired of all the conspiracy theories behind it, and all the Americans on my feeds (note: I am also an American) pointing fingers at

Welp y'all have been warned before about keeping this thread on topic but it continues to delve into Politics and other off topic subjects. So consider this thread closed. If something similar is star

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On 12/28/2020 at 11:31 AM, Nalates Urriah said:

You really have to move outside the corporate controlled media  If you aren't getting a good sized chunks of your news from non-corporate independent media you have no clue what is happening in the world. z-pak successhydroxychloroquine coronavirus

With Remdesivir we have people at the top of the big pharma in key positions at the top of the CDC and HHS making decisions and recommendations. We've seen money influence information and caught these top officials lying. At this point only the naïve buy into a government announcement, big pharma, or other sources without verifying with sources outside the establishment that they are being told facts rather them be manipulated.

Remember when Dr Fauci said we didn't need masks? Then reversed himself and admitted he said that to manipulate us and reduce the demand for masks.

There is projection for you... You should try parsing z-pak successhydroxychloroquine coronavirus. Consider what the Aussies are saying where Hydroxy hasn't been politicized.

WaPo and Google... both repeatedly found guilty of misrepresenting information and/or hiding it. I suggest you do a better job of vetting your sources.

The enlightened are aware of the basic Alinsky tactic to attempt to discredit the messenger when they can't defend with facts and reason.

Those allergy reactions... Reference... They are real and Pfizer recommends people get the shot in a place capable of treating sever allergic reactions. BUT... if you are going to base you decision on whether to get the vaccine or not on those reactions, have you looked at the numbers?

Have you considered whether there have been enough people vaccinated for us to know the real numbers?

You can survive CoVid. 99.92% do survive here in the US. That number includes the old and those with comorbidities. If you are young and healthy survival rate is higher. (Ref) How many are dying from the vaccine? Have you looked up the numbers and considered those numbers in your decision?

What do you think of organizations that suppress the information you need to make an informed decision?

Have you considered how the CDC's socially just recommendations for who gets the vaccine will result in more deaths? If you looked up the survival rates, you should see that vaccinating the healthcare workers (20 to 40 age group) first, while socially just, condemns the 70+ age group to more deaths. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Nalates Urriah said:

I doubt that. If your claim is true, challenge the science I presented. Which is better? Stopping a single transmission vector or all of them?

The CDC's general recommendation is that both health care workers and those in long term care facilities are top priority (schedule 1a). The states do have leeway on this however for prioritizing one over the other, but so far I haven't seen any mention of long-term care facility residents dying in isolation while health care workers get the vaccination (the scenario you present).

Here's how states are prioritizing:
https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/how-are-states-prioritizing-who-will-get-the-covid-19-vaccine-first/

Drilling down a bit, if push comes to shove during pandemics or epidemics, in theory they do place health care workers above residents in long-term care facilities facilities. Ethical considerations:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7224123/

I tend to agree with the CDC's recommendations, as top priority in a pandemic, looking at the 'big picture', should be a functioning health care system. This would be better for society overall as it would end up saving more lives beyond only those in long-term care facilities. 

I don't know what their conclusions are for prioritization, but I do plan to read the ncbi article when I get a chance.

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23 hours ago, FairreLilette said:
On 12/28/2020 at 11:39 AM, Luna Bliss said:

Have you tried apple cider vinegar?  I know it sounds a bit counterintuitive as we think of vinegars as drying, but it has worked for me.  Takes a few days of applications and then my skin is soft.

No.  I've been trying a lot of things though.  I have tried apple cider vinegar for my hair before.  Hmmm... I have some; I will try it.  

I am under the care of a dermatologist but they are closed now as Southern and Central California have zero emergency room capacity.  I really do, however, believe this is stress related from everything Covid.

I saw on the news that one person is dying every 10 minutes in LA county alone  :(  And with intensive care (ICU) space at zero percent this is indeed the nightmare scenario everyone has feared. So yes, I get your anxiety -- people dying all around and if people need intensive care for the typical non-Covid emergencies there is no space!

I'm worried about northern California where much of my family lives. Last time I checked they are below the 15% ICU capacity again and so back in lockdown.

Stress causes inflammation...and from what I remember this is a factor in your skin condition (my eyes too). Going to make an inflammation fighter -- lemon juice, tumeric, cinnamon, and ginger...sip on that throughout the day...toss most of my coffee consumption...

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58 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

Well, I quit paying attention to anything some people said after they continued to post about herd immunity.  If they had actually read anything factual or science based, they would have known that wasn't a viable option yet they never backed off the opinion.  I suppose losing millions in the US would be better than wearing masks, social distancing, quarantining or shutdowns?  

It's what they want. Wipe out as many as possible so there is more for them. The problem is they are overlooking some very glaring facts. Like less demand, smaller work forces because fewer people. On the other hand, the air would be cleaner as would our water along with other such pleasant things.

My, what a tangled web humans have weaved when it was so unnecessary.

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2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I saw on the news that one person is dying every 10 minutes in LA county alone  :(  And with intensive care (ICU) space at zero percent this is indeed the nightmare scenario everyone has feared. So yes, I get your anxiety -- people dying all around and if people need intensive care for the typical non-Covid emergencies there is no space!

I'm worried about northern California where much of my family lives. Last time I checked they are below the 15% ICU capacity again and so back in lockdown.

Stress causes inflammation...and from what I remember this is a factor in your skin condition (my eyes too). Going to make an inflammation fighter -- lemon juice, tumeric, cinnamon, and ginger...sip on that throughout the day...toss most of my coffee consumption...

Coffee is very high in antioxidants! If I had to give up coffee well........NO. lol

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1 hour ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Yours is a really odd perspective. Nice attempt at using the "authority" argument. But, it doesn't really support the idea of protecting the most vulnerable first.

Inoculating care givers makes a sort of intuitive sense but it is weak and doesn't stand up to broad consideration of the issues. But, if all the elderly in the facility are vaccinated first then the are protected from all the various infection vectors not just the single group 'caregivers'. Inoculating just the caregivers eliminates only one possibility.

If the elderly in the facility aren't vaccinated their isolation must continue. Friends and family can't visit. They can't go out. The elderly must remain in isolation until they are vaccinated and and continue suffering the mental deterioration that isolation inflicts. So I think not vaccinating the patients in elder-care facilities is cruel to them, their family, and friends. Prisons use isolation as a punishment.

We have ampule evidence the isolation is having a huge effect on everyone, not just the elderly.

If you have one health care provider in a facility of 100, and one vaccine dose available, do you give that dose to:

A) One of the elderly, allowing them to exit isolation while exposing the remaining 99 isolated people to the risk of infection from the health care provider who cannot isolate from them?

B) The one health care provider who is the primary or perhaps only vehicle for virus spread in the facility?

This allocation problem ain't going away fast enough. The vaunted Trump administration military run super duper vaccine logistics system, Operation Warp Speed, has delivered about one tenth (2M) of the expected 20M doses of vaccine on their delivery schedule so far.

As for the oddness of my perspective, that's to be expected. Years of working on complex multivariate problems has taught me to temper my desire for simple answers, to not confuse correlation with causation, and to make sure the patterns I sense are real.

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16 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

An increasing amount of people are starting to look at the economic impact as that haircutters and plenty of other people's livelihoods are being increasingly affected by the lockdowns. The local papers in my area have more and more articles about evictions for both residential and commercial places as people can no longer pay the rents when there is no money coming in and the government handouts aren't enough to cover those costs. I would say its less of being a "Covid denier" than a Covid minimizer. Is the cost worth it especially in light of the numbers of infected climbing regardless of masking, social distancing and lockdowns?

Yes the numbers would rise despite the assumed measures being taken that you mention (because many don't adhere to them), but if the measures were applied more rigorously the number of cases and deaths would be reduced and not overwhelm hospitals. The objective at this point is to prevent the nightmare scenario in every location where there is no room to treat Covid patients and others in emergency situations via intensive care units.  Governments should provide more help for those needing rent money and food until the vaccines bring the positive cases down. 

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8 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

Coffee is very high in antioxidants! If I had to give up coffee well........NO. lol

I forgot about that...

* heads for second morning mug

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11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I saw on the news that one person is dying every 10 minutes in LA county alone  :(  And with intensive care (ICU) space at zero percent this is indeed the nightmare scenario everyone has feared. So yes, I get your anxiety -- people dying all around and if people need intensive care for the typical non-Covid emergencies there is no space!

I'm worried about northern California where much of my family lives. Last time I checked they are below the 15% ICU capacity again and so back in lockdown.

Stress causes inflammation...and from what I remember this is a factor in your skin condition (my eyes too). Going to make an inflammation fighter -- lemon juice, tumeric, cinnamon, and ginger...sip on that throughout the day...toss most of my coffee consumption...

If you are using turmeric, you need to have it with a dash of pepper or some sort of fat like from almonds or almond milk or avocado or something.. our body can't absorb it on it's own.. also you don't want to overdo it because it can thin your blood..

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16 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

An increasing amount of people are starting to look at the economic impact as that haircutters and plenty of other people's livelihoods are being increasingly affected by the lockdowns. The local papers in my area have more and more articles about evictions for both residential and commercial places as people can no longer pay the rents when there is no money coming in and the government handouts aren't enough to cover those costs. I would say its less of being a "Covid denier" than a Covid minimizer. Is the cost worth it especially in light of the numbers of infected climbing regardless of masking, social distancing and lockdowns?

The problem with the "is it worth it" has nothing to do with reality of the law, however.  It is the law in California that hospitals must leave 15% capacity of their emergency care open by law.  That is why California is in lockdown...most of lockdown is to slow the spread, not avoid it completely.  To avoid it completely we'd all have to live in a plastic bubble like in the movie "The Boy in the Plastic Bubble".  

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50 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

It's what they want. Wipe out as many as possible so there is more for them. The problem is they are overlooking some very glaring facts. Like less demand, smaller work forces because fewer people. On the other hand, the air would be cleaner as would our water along with other such pleasant things.

My, what a tangled web humans have weaved when it was so unnecessary.

 

3E09C232-DEB2-413C-842E-D5951BA76FCA.jpeg

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47 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

As for the oddness of my perspective, that's to be expected. Years of working on complex multivariate problems has taught me to temper my desire for simple answers, to not confuse correlation with causation, and to make sure the patterns I sense are real.

Once again, you remind me of Friday from Heinlein's novel!!

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1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Things like herd immunity and alternate medicines SEEM like a good idea, but then when they are only amplified by the "fringe" elements..you have to ask why: politics and/or money.

If we've learnt only one thing from 2020, it's that the fringe's grift game is strong.

56 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

Coffee is very high in antioxidants! If I had to give up coffee well........NO. lol

Phew !

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53 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

If you are using turmeric, you need to have it with a dash of pepper or some sort of fat like from almonds or almond milk or avocado or something.. our body can't absorb it on it's own.. also you don't want to overdo it because it can thin your blood..

Thanks for reminding me. I remember a Hindu drink I've made...Golden Paste...a paste made from turmeric and ground pepper is then added to milk..

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1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

As for the oddness of my perspective, that's to be expected. Years of working on complex multivariate problems has taught me to temper my desire for simple answers, to not confuse correlation with causation, and to make sure the patterns I sense are real.

So how does one teach your critical thinking skills to others? What I call 'big picture' thinking as opposed to only being able to see what's right in front of one's nose or syncs with one's desires for any particular outcome?  There is such a push for simplicity and easy answers, especially with conservative thinkers.

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49 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

 

3E09C232-DEB2-413C-842E-D5951BA76FCA.jpeg

 

Yep. And they will have to do their own cooking and cleaning and laundry. That's just the short list of the everyday things that have to be done. Even if they were willing to pay a decent living wage, there wouldn't be anyone left to hire. They'll end up turning on each other just as they do now.

Retravision_EndIsNigh_1993_BLOG-thumb-30

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1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

If you are using turmeric, you need to have it with a dash of pepper or some sort of fat like from almonds or almond milk or avocado or something.. our body can't absorb it on it's own.. also you don't want to overdo it because it can thin your blood..

Turmeric is also not a thing to consume in quantity if there's any chance you have gallstones* unless you fancy gallbladder surgery -- not a good plan right now.

___________
*WebMD also notes the same side effects but can't link as directly to the relevant part.

 

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2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sorry you don't trust science. The scientists pick the best theory and follow that with an evidence-based approach. Which were the "science [you] presented" missing - a better theory, or an evidence-based proof by massive experimentation? Otherwise [your presented theories] would have become dominant. Don't trust the system? Or why don't YOU trust the approach chosen? No lazy conspiracy-based answers, if you can.

I enjoyed this excerpt as it points out the fallibility of the sciences you like to put your faith in. 

At the end of her book “Science: A Four Thousand Year History” (2009), Patricia Fara of Cambridge University wrote that “there can be no cast-iron guarantee that the cutting-edge science of today will not represent the discredited alchemy of tomorrow”. This is surely an understatement. If the past is any guide—and what else could be?—plenty of today’s science will be discredited in future. There is no reason to think that today’s practitioners are uniquely immune to the misconceptions, hasty generalisations, fads and hubris that marked most of their predecessors. Although the best ideas of Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Boyle, Darwin, Einstein and others have stood the test of time and taken their place in the permanent corpus of knowledge, error remains inherent in the enterprise of science. This is because interesting theories always go beyond the data that they seek to explain, and because science is made by people.

No offence intended but what I find is that in many cases there are scientists on both sides of the divide and in todays world of political armchair critics, it is the science that the relevant ideologically based media sources one puts their faith in that is taken to be the "real science". So really for most it is not the science but the faith in the right ideological that is the most relevant. As an example I'll point out how several studied cures for Covid promoted by Trump were quickly discredited by some dodgy science studies for no other reason then that it was Trump who promoted them. Left wing media blasted the cures to a degree that it is actually difficult to find anything that looked into them more deeply but there have been scientists who have continued to do so as per this site:

HCQ is effective for COVID-19 when used early: meta analysis of 182 studies

That is a lot of studies proving the effectiveness of something that could be saving thousands of deaths but has been tossed on the trash heap of mainstream medicine for no other reason then a hated political figure touted its effectiveness. Covid is about the politics, not the science.

 

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5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I enjoyed this excerpt as it points out the fallibility of the sciences you like to put your faith in. 

At the end of her book “Science: A Four Thousand Year History” (2009), Patricia Fara of Cambridge University wrote that “there can be no cast-iron guarantee that the cutting-edge science of today will not represent the discredited alchemy of tomorrow”. This is surely an understatement. If the past is any guide—and what else could be?—plenty of today’s science will be discredited in future. There is no reason to think that today’s practitioners are uniquely immune to the misconceptions, hasty generalisations, fads and hubris that marked most of their predecessors. Although the best ideas of Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Boyle, Darwin, Einstein and others have stood the test of time and taken their place in the permanent corpus of knowledge, error remains inherent in the enterprise of science. This is because interesting theories always go beyond the data that they seek to explain, and because science is made by people.

No offence intended but what I find is that in many cases there are scientists on both sides of the divide and in todays world of political armchair critics, it is the science that the relevant ideologically based media sources one puts their faith in that is taken to be the "real science". So really for most it is not the science but the faith in the right ideological that is the most relevant. As an example I'll point out how several studied cures for Covid promoted by Trump were quickly discredited by some dodgy science studies for no other reason then that it was Trump who promoted them. Left wing media blasted the cures to a degree that it is actually difficult to find anything that looked into them more deeply but there have been scientists who have continued to do so as per this site:

HCQ is effective for COVID-19 when used early: meta analysis of 182 studies

That is a lot of studies proving the effectiveness of something that could be saving thousands of deaths but has been tossed on the trash heap of mainstream medicine for no other reason then a hated political figure touted its effectiveness. Covid is about the politics, not the science.

 

Some of that sounds like..alchemy!

 

D7205DF9-457D-423D-B6DC-668889BDB69A.jpeg

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17 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

HCQ is effective for COVID-19 when used early: meta analysis of 182 studies

That is a lot of studies proving the effectiveness of something that could be saving thousands of deaths but has been tossed on the trash heap of mainstream medicine for no other reason then a hated political figure touted its effectiveness. Covid is about the politics, not the science.

 

https://www.newsguardtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/COVIDAnalysis.pdf

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32 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:
3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sorry you don't trust science.

I enjoyed this excerpt as it points out the fallibility of the sciences you like to put your faith in. 

You still don't know what good Science is. There are procedures that must be followed in order to classify it as good science, yet you frequently cite sources that do not adhere to these procedures (like your citations from Gerome Corsi). The closer we follow these procedures the more certain we can be about its truth, but we are never absolutely sure about much of anything.

Many scientific truths do indeed change in the future when new information becomes available. Good Science does not mean perfect Science.

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