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44 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

All well and good but Richard seemed to be unaware of studies that contest his opinion:

Carbon dioxide (CO2) rebreathing has been recognised as a concern regarding respirator use and is related to symptoms of discomfort, fatigue, dizziness, headache, muscular weakness and drowsiness. Previous investigations are limited by small sample size and have not evaluated the relationship between CO2 inhalation and phonic respiration (breathing during speech) in respiratory protective devices (RPDs). A total of 40 workers trained in the use of RPDs performed a graded exercise test on a cycle ergonometer that increased in workload every 5 min. During the third minute of each stage, participants read aloud a prepared text. Measures of mixed expired CO2 (PECO2), mixed inspired CO2 (PICO2) and respiration were monitored. The results showed that phonic respiration and low work rates contributed to significantly higher levels of CO2 rebreathing. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23514282/

Results: Five studies were included. Wearing RPDs exerted significant respiratory effects, including increased breathing resistance, CO2 rebreathing due to CO2 accumulation in the RPD cavity, and decreased inhaled O2 concentration. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33065816/

The first of these studies -- which is 7 years old -- demonstrated that a reduction of "CO2 exposure may result in improved wear time of RPDs"; the point was to produce data that might assist in the design of more effective RPDs. In other words, better designs might ensure people wear their masks for longer durations. Nothing about heart attacks or other serious health impacts.

Your second study is about the incidence of "panic attacks" among a small proportion of the population, as induced by RPD wearing. Far from suggesting that RPDs should be discarded, it concludes that "panic-prone individuals may be at higher risk of respiratory discomfort when wearing RPDs, thereby reducing their tolerance for these devices. Strategies to decrease discomfort should be identified to overcome the risk of poor compliance." Which is to say, how can we make sure such people DO wear their masks?

Not quite seeing how this is proving your point that masks -- and it should be noted that these studies are about professionally produced RPDs for health care workers, and not the kind of simple fabric masks the vast majority of us are wearing -- is making your point that mask wearing is dangerous.

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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4 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

WalMart has these:

 

3720b8ee-5f6f-41c4-a458-ce836a6f34ce.0d0

Hmmm?.. were have I seen those before?..I know!! the southern democrat south of the Mason-Dixon line was very fond of those pre-1865. They had all kinds of styles too...

Unless your wearing a bio suit your not doing anything but giving your submission...think the virus cannot penetrate your eyes? . your eyes have millions of holes so the inner cells can breath as they only get 10% of the oxygen needed from the blood stream..people go blind from having to wear blindfolds exactly for that reason... you want to be safe then everyone needs to be in a hazmat suit .😉

A virus does not need a mouth it can and will drill through any part of your skin..I

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7 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

A virus does not need a mouth it can and will drill through any part of your skin..

Also they rarely travel by breath... its the human beings daily shedding of dead skin and hair follicles they travel on mostly..every time you enter a crowded room your breathing in other people dandruff and dead skin cells.. they are constantly shedding like cats shed fur.

if it does not get breathed in... it gets on your clothing...on your skin... by just moving around in a room/environment thats circulated in human epidermal waste.🙃

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27 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

Hmmm?.. were have I seen those before?..I know!! the southern democrat south of the Mason-Dixon line was very fond of those pre-1865. They had all kinds of styles too...

Unless your wearing a bio suit your not doing anything but giving your submission...think the virus cannot penetrate your eyes? . your eyes have millions of holes so the inner cells can breath as they only get 10% of the oxygen needed from the blood stream..people go blind from having to wear blindfolds exactly for that reason... you want to be safe then everyone needs to be in a hazmat suit .😉

A virus does not need a mouth it can and will drill through any part of your skin..I

It's meant to be worn between your face and the mask... oh never mind. If you can't figure it out for yourself I'm not going to tell you.

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1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Neither were the studies I asked you to refute. They were simply proofs of the higher heart attack rates since Covid and masks became a thing. 

What studies? That idiotic article claiming masks are neither safe for effective? Which is contradicted by like every public health agency in the world. That dreck deserves no response but ridicule for even linking to it. 

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2 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

What studies? That idiotic article claiming masks are neither safe for effective? Which is contradicted by like every public health agency in the world. That dreck deserves no response but ridicule for even linking to it. 

Funny what Arielle wrote as I was formulating something close..the bacteria and virus that live in your mouth at 1000x more dangerous then anything Covid could ever be..we have a biological relationship with them over millions of years the trouble is the masks forces them in much higher then normal concentrations into the lungs and circulatory system ..this has and can create huge medical conditions as the inner body has no way to cope as the immune system has been trained to not kill those bugs as they are part of our digestive system(mouth) so they wreak havoc and lead to auto immune disorders, sudden heart failure from the your mouth virus's attack the heart valves and much more...one reasons doctors check your mouth is not for cavities but for coloring and odor that are signs of disease the mouth leads to the stomach, the stomach the root of all disease.

By wearing masks long term it can damage peoples health by so called protecting them from one virus while creating an unnatural environment they are attacked by the virus's there mother passed on to them at birth who ordinarily are there to help throughout there lives but like cancer the virus is allowed to run rampant from a non resistant immune response.

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4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The first of these studies -- which is 7 years old -- demonstrated that a reduction of "CO2 exposure may result in improved wear time of RPDs"; the point was to produce data that might assist in the design of more effective RPDs. In other words, better designs might ensure people wear their masks for longer durations. Nothing about heart attacks or other serious health impacts.

Your second study is about the incidence of "panic attacks" among a small proportion of the population, as induced by RPD wearing. Far from suggesting that RPDs should be discarded, it concludes that "panic-prone individuals may be at higher risk of respiratory discomfort when wearing RPDs, thereby reducing their tolerance for these devices. Strategies to decrease discomfort should be identified to overcome the risk of poor compliance." Which is to say, how can we make sure such people DO wear their masks?

Not quite seeing how this is proving your point that masks -- and it should be noted that these studies are about professionally produced RPDs for health care workers, and not the kind of simple fabric masks the vast majority of us are wearing -- is making your point that mask wearing is dangerous.

That is why I like the first study. It points out there were known problems with masks long before mask mandates became an issue. I at least find symptoms of "discomfort, fatigue, dizziness, headache, muscular weakness and drowsiness" to be an issue and certainly know that they are the precursors to a host of potential problems up to and including heart attacks.

Are you saying people should just suck it up because the panic is all in their heads? Certainly might be for some but even then, it is still an issue that can lead to stress disorders and heart attacks. The subjects in those studies fortunately weren't forced to continue wearing the masks till that became an actual thing but certainly there have been enough r/l examples were that did become a reality for those prone to panic.

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4 hours ago, Sassy Kenin said:

Funny what Arielle wrote as I was formulating something close..the bacteria and virus that live in your mouth at 1000x more dangerous then anything Covid could ever be..we have a biological relationship with them over millions of years the trouble is the masks forces them in much higher then normal concentrations into the lungs and circulatory system ..this has and can create huge medical conditions as the inner body has no way to cope as the immune system has been trained to not kill those bugs as they are part of our digestive system(mouth) so they wreak havoc and lead to auto immune disorders, sudden heart failure from the your mouth virus's attack the heart valves and much more...

But then wouldn't dentists and surgeons who wear these throughout their working day have higher rates of illness? Or wouldn't it be a risk if you slept with your head under the covers?

I am not being snarky, I just don't understand how killer mouth viruses haven't already become a thing? :S

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22 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

This^^^.   If everyone would think this way, things would probably be getting better and not worse and it's almost from the beginning that people have fought about wearing a mask.  Why?  If I can keep one person safe, what's the downside??  Are masks 100% effective?  Nope but it's what we have and a very small thing we each can do to help someone else.  It's a no brainer.

100 pct true!

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COVID doesn't behave like a normal virus. This is a snippet about how scientists believe it spreads a bit differently in the body than a typical virus.:

Snippet:

In cell studies, the researchers showed for the first time that the coronavirus can exit infected cells through the lysosome, an organelle known as the cells’ “trash compactor.” Normally the lysosome destroys viruses and other pathogens before they leave the cells. However, the researchers found that the coronavirus deactivates the lysosome’s disease-fighting machinery, allowing it to freely spread throughout the body.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-scientists-discover-key-pathway-lysosomes-coronaviruses-use-exit-cells

Even if people have only mild cases of COVID, wearing your mask and social distancing is important. If a person has a medical reason not to wear a mask they really should not be out in public places to begin with during this in my opinion. Wear the mask. It's that simple.

Edited by Gage Wirefly
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21 minutes ago, Gage Wirefly said:

COVID doesn't behave like a normal virus. This is a snippet about how scientists believe it spreads a bit differently in the body than a typical virus.:

Snippet:

In cell studies, the researchers showed for the first time that the coronavirus can exit infected cells through the lysosome, an organelle known as the cells’ “trash compactor.” Normally the lysosome destroys viruses and other pathogens before they leave the cells. However, the researchers found that the coronavirus deactivates the lysosome’s disease-fighting machinery, allowing it to freely spread throughout the body.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-scientists-discover-key-pathway-lysosomes-coronaviruses-use-exit-cells

Even if people have only mild cases of COVID, wearing your mask and social distancing is important. If a person has a medical reason not to wear a mask they really should not be out in public places to begin with during this in my opinion. Wear the mask. It's that simple.

Thinking/wondering if that impaired lysosome action is as a result of a Vitamin D deficiency as there does seem to be some studies mentioning a strengthening of that system with D3. http://iv.iiarjournals.org/content/28/1/133.full Low levels of Vitamen D are found in many severe cases of Covid.

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7 hours ago, Rat Luv said:

But then wouldn't dentists and surgeons who wear these throughout their working day have higher rates of illness? Or wouldn't it be a risk if you slept with your head under the covers?

I am not being snarky, I just don't understand how killer mouth viruses haven't already become a thing? :S

Seems to be a legit concern that is being termed "Mask Mouth" and is caused by a lack of saliva which then allows bacteria to multiply. More info on it here: https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/mask-mouth-is-a-seriously-stinky-side-effect-of-wearing-masks/

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2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Seems to be a legit concern that is being termed "Mask Mouth" and is caused by a lack of saliva which then allows bacteria to multiply. More info on it here: https://nypost.com/2020/08/05/mask-mouth-is-a-seriously-stinky-side-effect-of-wearing-masks/

Yeah all valid stories come from the new York post..you do know that's a tabloid rag?   One step up from the national enquirer?

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1 minute ago, RowanMinx said:

Yeah all valid stories come from the new York post..you do know that's a tabloid rag?   One step up from the national enquirer?

May I suggest you find links then that you will be happy with? There is certainly enough hits on the term Mask mouth that one of them will be suitable.

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9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:
11 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

Yeah all valid stories come from the new York post..you do know that's a tabloid rag?   One step up from the national enquirer?

May I suggest you find links then that you will be happy with? There is certainly enough hits on the term Mask mouth that one of them will be suitable.

I'd be wary of New York Post:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-york-post/

These media sources are slightly to moderately conservative in bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes) to favor conservative causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information, but may require further investigation. See all Right-Center sources.

 
  • Overall we rate the New York Post on the far end of Right-Center Biased due to story selection that typically favors the Right and Mixed (borderline questionable) for factual reporting based on several failed fact checks.

Detailed Report

Factual Reporting: MIXED
Country: USA
World Press Freedom Rank: USA 45/180

History

Founded in 1801 by Alexander Hamilton (One of the Founding Fathers of the United States), the New York Post (NY Post) is a daily tabloid newspaper from New York City. According to an article published by the NY Times, titled “THE NEW YORK POST HAS A LONG HISTORY”, they describe how under Hamilton’s ownership the paper-covered “shipping news, engaged in political crusades even if it meant the loss of advertising revenue.” Later owners were Poet William Cullen Bryant who kept the NY Post for 50 years, followed by railroad magnate Henry Villard (1878), Oswald Garrison Villard (1917), Thomas W. Lamond, and Cyrus H. K. Curtis (1920). Under Curtis’ ownership, the NY Post followed a conservative editorial policy until 1936.

When David J.Stern acquired the paper in 1936, they became editorially more liberal. Dorothy Schiff bought the New York Post in 1939, which she controlled until 1976, and under her ownership, The Post was liberal as it supported the civil rights movement and opposed the Vietnam War. In 1942, Theodore Thackrey became editor and The Post switched from a broadsheet paper to a tabloid.

 

In 1976, Rupert Murdoch, the owner of News Corp, acquired The New York Post and in 1988, Murdoch sold the paper to Real estate developer Peter S. Kalikow. When Kalikow lost the paper to bankruptcy in 1993, Rupert Murdoch once again purchased the paper and continues to own it today. Since Murdoch took over the paper, The Post has been known for its over-the-top sensational headlines.

Read our profile on United States government and media.

Funded by / Ownership

The New York Post is currently owned by Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp, which owns many conservative/sensational media outlets around the world. The paper is funded through advertising, subscriptions, and newsstand sales.

Analysis / Bias

In review, the New York Post tends to publish stories utilizing sensationalized headlines with emotionally loaded wording such as “Cop cold-cocks unarmed man ‘acting irate’ at restaurant”, and “It’s time for Bill Clinton to take a walk in the Chappaqua woods.” The New York Post also republishes news from other sources such as the least biased Associated Press. In general, more stories favor the right, but the NY Post does not shy away from reporting negative coverage of the right, if it is a big story. They also tend to source their information properly, however many times the headline misleadingly exaggerates the actual story they are reporting.

Editorially, The Post has endorsed the Republican Presidential Candidate in every race since 1980. However, in 2016 they did not offer an endorsement for the Presidential election to either candidate.

 

According to an LA Times article, the New York Post was reported to be the preferred newspaper of U.S. President Donald Trump, who maintains frequent contact with its owner, Rupert Murdoch. The Post, According to a survey conducted by Pace University in 2004, was rated the least-credible major news outlet in New York. Further, The Post has been criticized since the beginning of Murdoch’s ownership for “sensationalism, blatant advocacy, and conservative bias.”

A factual search reveals several failed checks.

Overall we rate the New York Post on the far end of Right-Center Biased due to story selection that typically favors the Right and Mixed (borderline questionable) for factual reporting based on several failed fact checks. (7/16/2016) Updated (M. Huitsing 7/13/2019)

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@Arielle Popstar

The article you cited (https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/) is from a far-right psuedoscience rag named technocracy.org.

These types of websites typically cherry-pick scientific studies which fit their hypothesis (in this case, that masks are not effective or safe) and make no effort to research in an objective, unbiased manner.
As Scylla pointed out, the science articles they chose doesn't even prove their thesis.
Plus...they chose scientific abstracts. Please read about abstracts and why they should not be used to 'prove' anything. 
~~~~~~~~~~

Mediabiasfactcheck says this about technocracy.org:

Overall, we rate Technocracy.News a far-right tin foil hat Conspiracy site that promotes quackery level pseudoscience. We also rate them Very Low in factual reporting due to the routine publication of false information as evidenced by numerous failed fact checks.

History

Founded in 2015 by author Patrick Wood, Technocracy.News is a conspiracy and pseudoscience website that reports on technology and it’s supposed dangers that lead to government control. According to the about page Patrick Wood describes himself as “An economist by education, a financial analyst and writer by profession and an American Constitutionalist by choice, Wood maintains a Biblical world view and has deep historical insights into the modern attacks on sovereignty, property rights and personal freedom. Such attacks are epitomized by the implementation of U.N. policies such as Agenda 21, Sustainable Development, Smart Growth, and in education, the widespread adoption of Common Core State Standards.”

Funded by / Ownership

Technocracy.News is owned by Patrick Wood and generates revenue through donations and the sale of books.

Analysis / Bias

In review, Technocracy.News frequently publishes conspiracy theories and promotes pseudoscience. Many articles are written by Patrick Wood with others republished from right-leaning sources such as the questionable Breitbart, and conspiracy website Zerohedge. They also republish from credible sources such as The Hill, however, they add biased commentary such as this: “Rice is a globalist of the first order and tightly connected with members of the Trilateral Commission.  As a former Ambassador to the UN and then National Security Advisor to Obama, it is not surprising that she would be on Biden’s shortlist. ⁃ TN Editor”

Story selection often favors the right with great concern over Globalism and the New World Order such as this IMF Reveals That Cryptocurrency Is The New World Order Endgame. This story comes from the conspiracy website Alt-Market. They also frequently promote conspiracy theories about 5G, and Agenda 21. Further, they routinely publish misinformation regarding the CoronaVirus such as this CDC Sent Useless Test Kits To States, Tainted With Coronavirus. The test kits were not tainted with coronavirus. This is a false claim. Finally, they routinely promote anti-vaccination propaganda and support the claim that Human Influenced Climate Change is a hoax Dr. Tim Ball: Why People Continue To Believe Global Warming Hoax. In general, this is a website that frequently publishes misleading or false information from a far-right perspective.

Failed Fact Checks

    CO2 is not a greenhouse gas. – Inaccurate
    “New evidence shows wearing face mask can help coronavirus enter the brain and pose more health risk, warn expert” – Unsupported
    NASA Scientists: Lack Of Sunspots To Bring Record Cold – False
    30,000 scientists have signed a petition arguing that there is no convincing scientific evidence for anthropogenic climate change. – Mostly False
    CDC Sent Useless Test Kits To States, Tainted With Coronavirus – False
    A study of past climate invalidates human-caused climate change – False

Overall, we rate Technocracy.News a far-right tin foil hat Conspiracy site that promotes quackery level pseudoscience. We also rate them Very Low in factual reporting due to the routine publication of false information as evidenced by numerous failed fact checks. (D. Van Zandt 7/10/2020)

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/technocracy-news/

Here are further pseudoscience-conspiracy rags which should be avoided:
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/conspiracy/

Edited by Luna Bliss
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4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

@Arielle Popstar

In case you didn't see it at the bottom of the long post I just made, here is a list of online  pseudoscience-conspiracy websites to avoid:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/conspiracy/

Media Bias Fact Check: Incompetent or Dishonest?

https://www.justfactsdaily.com/media-bias-fact-check-incompetent-or-dishonest

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