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On 11/28/2020 at 9:46 AM, Nalates Urriah said:

What? You are too lazy to type it in a search engine?

DuckDuckGo or Google

 

On 11/28/2020 at 10:28 AM, Nalates Urriah said:

I did. I gave you 2 lists. Keep up.

 

On 11/28/2020 at 10:45 AM, Nalates Urriah said:

OMG. You are too lazy to scroll up? 

 

On 11/28/2020 at 5:46 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

If you don't consider that giving you studies, why should I think you are smart or interested enough to debate those issues?

I would think that such a smart and competent researcher as yourself would know to search for scientific research on Google Scholar:

https://scholar.google.com/

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*****ing *****ed up mother *****ers are *****ing the whole *****ing *****ed up ****sucking *****head *****s. And then some.

Cutting in with a rando side comment because I haven’t kept up - I’m tired of all the conspiracy theories behind it, and all the Americans on my feeds (note: I am also an American) pointing fingers at

Welp y'all have been warned before about keeping this thread on topic but it continues to delve into Politics and other off topic subjects. So consider this thread closed. If something similar is star

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1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

There is actually much truth in this.  Though I do wear a mask when I'm in public, it is primarily because it is required - and it is more for protecting others if I'm asymptomatic than to protect myself.  I do not spend all my time doing extra hand washings, using hand sanitizer, and/or sanitizing everything that comes into my house.  In the beginning, I was quite a bit more fearful than I am now.  However, since I seldom go out -- mostly by choice -- I'm just not as scared as I was back then.  Even when I do go out, I no longer wear gloves or bother with hand sanitizer every 30 seconds.  I use the wipe cloth that the grocery store provides to wipe down the handle of the cart, but I've done that since long before covid -- primarily because of kids touching that handle with who knows what on their hands.  Otherwise, I'm not really using any other special precautions right now.

The only additional precaution I have been taking to my usual routine is wearing a mask in public. Never did the wiping down other than the normal housework. I don't use hand sanitizer because alcohol and cirrhosis are not a good mix. It does soak into your skin and into your blood stream. Never bothered with the gloves because they make my hands sweat. The powdered ones are even worse. 

I just do my usual cleaning routine using Lysol products. When people don't panic and buy everything out so those of us with compromised immune systems have to do without since we can't afford $100 for a single roll of toilet tissue.

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1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

When people don't panic and buy everything out

The panic buying has hit our stores again.  Paper products are getting difficult to find, baking products and various staples are also now in short supply.  

And my Mike's Hard Lemonade is getting scarce.  That is my go-to drink when I'm not in the mood for wine.  Luckily I have about a case or so of wine.

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2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

You stated earlier that because you don't personally see a lot of Covid cases in your neighborhood that Covid cases and dangers are overblown by the media -- you are so encased in denial you can't even recognize that your personal living environment is not representative of every other place on earth. 
You've made jokes about mask-wearing despite a consensus by reputable health organizations that they do indeed save lives.
You constantly source your beliefs from alt-right rags and have no idea how to locate reputable scientific research.

Nobody should approve of, respect, or have empathy for the way you are coping with the dangers we all face now with Covid -- over 2,600 people died in the US yesterday, and this number continues to climb because idiots deny the dangers and kill not only themselves but others around them. Hospitals are becoming overwhelmed due to increasing cases, and some will die do to lack of hospital space/personnel to take care of them.

I have quite clearly stated several times that I wear masks where required as well as do those other things that are suggested. 

"As an obedient, mask wearing, hand cleaning, social distancing Canadian, I am surprised... So yeah, I'll question the "science" even as I obey the directives. 

I have questioned the validity of the lockdown and mask wearing orders as there is a saying that seems very relevant in light of the current situation: the welfare of humanity is the alibi of tyrants which makes me question and shake my head that you yourself are not watching out for this also considering how often you bleat about disliking authoritative politicians. Are you honestly so deluded to believe that only Republicans are capable of such? Perhaps you simply aren't recognizing it because it agrees with your own control issues and just seems normal from a codependents perspective.

That science has already been pointed out to you on several occasions but as it doesn't seem to agree with your narrative, you refuse to look at it or rebut it with these crazy libtard sites which come up with some inane justifications for why those scientific studies are not valid. Not at all what I would call legitimate peer reviews. Neither you nor any of the others who argue for the same thing has been able to come up with any studies, legit or not, validating the points you try to ram down the forums collective throat. What I see in fact from you and a few others is mostly political science, not medical. 

The problem with that is in that when you have blinders on that only allow you to focus on a lack of mask wearing to be the problem, you miss the bigger picture. The reality is that in spite of lockdowns and many areas where everyone do wear masks, the numbers are still starting to climb again.

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Your beliefs/defenses are murdering people... and now you're telling others not to get emotional about it??!!  JFC!  Yes, I'm emotional about it -- somebody I love might die because of people like you.

Oh look! Attempting to control through guilt and shame. Did they teach you that at Social Worker school? You may win a battle through such methods but you will lose the war.

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You have praised Alcoholics Anonymous and touted their methods for confronting those using the defense of denial in hopes they will stop drinking and harming themselves and their loved ones, yet you can't recognize what is happening here with Covid deniers as a need for the intervention/confrontation so primary to AA methods!!??

The AA/12 Step groups I am familiar with absolutely do not use confrontation as a method to overcome another's denial. The recommended method that i am aware of suggests in leading through example and the sharing of one's personal experience in the hopes that those afflicted with whatever malady that is making their life unmanageable, will be able to relate and identify. Through such a process one can come to the realization that they too might be able to overcome the problem(s) they are having. 

As you have probably surmised, I am not a good example of the unconfrontational method but at the same time you realize how little good it does in convincing others of the rightness of my arguments as you seem entirely unconvinced of anything I have said both now and in past. :)

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1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

And my Mike's Hard Lemonade is getting scarce.  That is my go-to drink when I'm not in the mood for wine.  Luckily I have about a case or so of wine.

   I was just on my phone with my mother, and I mentioned I was sipping on a hot cup of glögg. She said she doesn't much care for it, and I pointed out that it's just about the only way to make red wine palatable. She disagreed.

   Anyway. You should try glögg! 

   Goes off to to proselytise Swedishness elsewhere. "Have you heard of our lord and saviour, knäckebröd?"

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4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I would think that such a smart and competent researcher as yourself would know to search for scientific research on Google Scholar:

https://scholar.google.com/

I would think you would be smart enough not to limit yourself to a single source. Google is charged by a huge number of people with massive bias, including a number of Google employees that have blown the whistle (ref).

One list of 59 million hits and a second of similar size with both having the first most relevant hit being articles with multiple references to multiple studies and you can't find them... sheeese... Get a clue carry your weight.

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10 hours ago, RowanMinx said:

This^^^.   If everyone would think this way, things would probably be getting better and not worse and it's almost from the beginning that people have fought about wearing a mask.  Why?  If I can keep one person safe, what's the downside??  Are masks 100% effective?  Nope but it's what we have and a very small thing we each can do to help someone else.  It's a no brainer.

Is it though? Consider this article with referenced studies:

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Are masks safe?

During walking or other exercise

Surgical mask wearers had significantly increased dyspnea after a 6-minute walk than non-mask wearers. (30)

Researchers are concerned about possible burden of facemasks during physical activity on pulmonary, circulatory and immune systems, due to oxygen reduction and air trapping reducing substantial carbon dioxide exchange.  As a result of hypercapnia, there may be cardiac overload, renal overload, and a shift to metabolic acidosis. (31)

Risks of N95 respirators

Pregnant healthcare workers were found to have a loss in volume of oxygen consumption by 13.8% compared to controls when wearing N95 respirators.  17.7% less carbon dioxide was exhaled. (32)  Patients with end-stage renal disease were studied during use of N95 respirators.  Their partial pressure of oxygen (PaO2) decreased significantly compared to controls and increased respiratory adverse effects. (33)   19% of the patients developed various degrees of hypoxemia while wearing the masks.

Healthcare workers’ N95 respirators were measured by personal bioaerosol samplers to harbor influenza virus. (34)  And 25% of healthcare workers’ facepiece respirators were found to contain influenza in an emergency department during the 2015 flu season. (35)

Risks of surgical masks

Healthcare workers’ surgical masks also were measured by personal bioaerosol samplers to harbor for influenza virus. (36)

Various respiratory pathogens were found on the outer surface of used medical masks, which could result in self-contamination.  The risk was found to be higher with longer duration of mask use. (37)

Surgical masks were also found to be a repository of bacterial contamination.  The source of the bacteria was determined to be the body surface of the surgeons, rather than the operating room environment. (38)  Given that surgeons are gowned from head to foot for surgery, this finding should be especially concerning for laypeople who wear masks.  Without the protective garb of surgeons, laypeople generally have even more exposed body surface to serve as a source for bacteria to collect on their masks.

Risks of cloth masks

Healthcare workers wearing cloth masks had significantly higher rates of influenza-like illness after four weeks of continuous on-the-job use, when compared to controls. (39)

The increased rate of infection in mask-wearers may be due to a weakening of immune function during mask use.  Surgeons have been found to have lower oxygen saturation after surgeries even as short as 30 minutes. (40)  Low oxygen induces hypoxia-inducible factor 1 alpha (HIF-1). (41)  This in turn down-regulates CD4+ T-cells.  CD4+ T-cells, in turn, are necessary for viral immunity. (42)

https://www.technocracy.news/masks-are-neither-effective-nor-safe-a-summary-of-the-science/

 

 

I bolded the one finding because it has relevance for me with a prior heart incident and the warning by medical people of another occurrence should I allow myself to get overexerted and not be getting enough oxygen to support my heart. So I deduced from that, that there should be data for an increased amount of heart attacks since Covid came along and sure enough:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-the-heart-attack-death-rate-has-doubled-during-covid-19

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2020/07/10/more-people-are-dying-during-the-pandemic-and-not-just-from-covid-19

After reading this and some other related material I decided to stop wearing the N95 mask as I do feel somewhat breathless when I wear it for even 15 minutes or so. Problem as I see it is that there is very little info out there about mask usage for those with heart issues, COPD, diabetes, obesity and even cancers as reduced oxygen intake causes certain cancers to flourish. It becomes a danged if you do and danged if you don't problem.

Edited by Arielle Popstar
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9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Is it though? Consider this article with referenced studies:

 

I bolded the one finding because it has relevance for me with a prior heart incident and the warning by medical people of another occurrence should I allow myself to get overexerted and not be getting enough oxygen to support my heart. So I deduced from that, that there should be data for an increased amount of heart attacks since Covid came along and sure enough:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-the-heart-attack-death-rate-has-doubled-during-covid-19

https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/does-wearing-face-mask-increase-co2-levels

After reading this and some other related material I decided to stop wearing the N95 mask as I do feel somewhat breathless when I wear it for even 15 minutes or so. Problem as I see it is that there is very little info out there about mask usage for those with heart issues, COPD, diabetes, obesity and even cancers as reduced oxygen intake causes certain cancers to flourish. It becomes a danged if you do and danged if you don't problem.

And once again, do not wear your dang mask if you're out jogging ffs.  There is a lot of crapola that is just damn common sense and we hardly need a study to tell us.  It really isn't rocket science.  

Studies like these give the anti mask people fuel for their OMG it's more.dangerous with than without mumbo jumbo.  Alone in your car...no mask.  Jogging by yourself...no.mask.  Shoveling the snow we just got....no mask.  Feeling a bit dizzy?  Sit down apart from people or go outside and breathe.  Wear your mask/wash your mask.  My husband has copd and wears his mask religiously.  My mother has diabetes and high blood pressure...wears her masks when she does have to go out which isn't often and only when inside.

I guess common sense isn't so common as the saying goes.

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22 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

I guess common sense isn't so common as the saying goes.

Certainly wasn't common sense to me until I took some optional courses on heart healthy practices, so curious as to why you think that should be a common knowledge.

Had there been a common sense about it, then shouldn't have had the heart problems to begin with :)

Edited by Arielle Popstar
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6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Certainly wasn't common sense to me until I took some optional courses on heart healthy practices, so curious as to why you think that should be a common knowledge.

That jogging or exerting yourself while wearing a mask might make it harder to breathe?  Really?  That doing so might lower your level of oxygen?    That said lower oxygen might damage your heart or lungs?  Guess I just have more common sense?

Really not gonna argue the point.  I've read plenty of your posts to know how you feel.  I'll just politely agree to disagree with you.

Edited by RowanMinx
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17 minutes ago, RowanMinx said:

That jogging or exerting yourself while wearing a mask might make it harder to breathe?  Really?  That doing so might lower your level of oxygen?    That said lower oxygen might damage your heart or lungs?  Guess I just have more common sense?

Really not gonna argue the point.  I've read plenty of your posts to know how you feel.  I'll just politely agree to disagree with you.

Not about what I feel but the fact that there have been cases of people drinking bleach to cure Covid. Some words of possible side effects of wearing masks is perfectly in order for those with a little less "common" sense.

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6 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

Your garbage is dangerous. You should be banned from the forums.

Disprove those studies and I will leave voluntarily. Until you refute it, it is your opinions that may be dangerous and potentially leading to the large increases in heart attacks.

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14 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Disprove those studies and I will leave voluntarily. Until you refute it, it is your opinions that may be dangerous and potentially leading to the large increases in heart attacks.

 Neither the Healthline nor the Health.com article you linked to said anything about masks increasing the number of heart attacks. The Healthline article stated why heart attack deaths have increased, and it’s not because of masks. I don’t need to disprove your stupidity, you already did it.

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56 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

I saw this earlier

 

128893190_10159114838291096_8490302770997574285_o.thumb.jpg.b95bf1e2dc71d76b8ebafd222473cd63.jpg

Experts? Pehhh!!

As Michael Gove once wisely noted, we’ve all “had enough of experts with organisations from acronyms saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong.“

Which is why I am so happy that Britain is now ruled by a pack of rank amateurs.

 

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Experts? Pehhh!!

As Michael Gove once wisely noted, we’ve all “had enough of experts with organisations from acronyms saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong.“

Which is why I am so happy that Britain is now ruled by a pack of rank amateurs.

That's what I don't understand about people who think social distancing or masks are proof of the new police state...the UK government wanted us to carry on as normal and get it back in March! :o

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4 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

That's what I don't understand about people who think social distancing or masks are proof of the new police state...the UK government wanted us to carry on as normal and get it back in March! :o

Oh, I knew civil rights in Canada were dead when they started insisting on shirts and shoes in restaurants.

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2 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

 Neither the Healthline nor the Health.com article you linked to said anything about masks increasing the number of heart attacks. The Healthline article stated why heart attack deaths have increased, and it’s not because of masks. I don’t need to disprove your stupidity, you already did it.

Neither were the studies I asked you to refute. They were simply proofs of the higher heart attack rates since Covid and masks became a thing. 

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2 hours ago, Rat Luv said:

I saw this earlier

 

128893190_10159114838291096_8490302770997574285_o.thumb.jpg.b95bf1e2dc71d76b8ebafd222473cd63.jpg

All well and good but Richard seemed to be unaware of studies that contest his opinion:

Carbon dioxide (CO2) rebreathing has been recognised as a concern regarding respirator use and is related to symptoms of discomfort, fatigue, dizziness, headache, muscular weakness and drowsiness. Previous investigations are limited by small sample size and have not evaluated the relationship between CO2 inhalation and phonic respiration (breathing during speech) in respiratory protective devices (RPDs). A total of 40 workers trained in the use of RPDs performed a graded exercise test on a cycle ergonometer that increased in workload every 5 min. During the third minute of each stage, participants read aloud a prepared text. Measures of mixed expired CO2 (PECO2), mixed inspired CO2 (PICO2) and respiration were monitored. The results showed that phonic respiration and low work rates contributed to significantly higher levels of CO2 rebreathing. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23514282/

Results: Five studies were included. Wearing RPDs exerted significant respiratory effects, including increased breathing resistance, CO2 rebreathing due to CO2 accumulation in the RPD cavity, and decreased inhaled O2 concentration. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33065816/

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