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5 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Historically the second season of a flu is less severe as herd immunity is kicking in.

Really wish you'd stop it with the herd immunity.  

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/herd-immunity-covid19.html

Once the vaccine is widely used, yes but not until.

Edited by RowanMinx
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2 hours ago, Mollymews said:

not sure where you are picking these numbers from

we can get actual numbers from the CDC website: https://data.cdc.gov/Case-Surveillance/COVID-19-Case-Surveillance-Public-Use-Data-Profile/xigx-wn5e

Most of my numbers do come from the CDC.

Did you find any stats on the from versus with for the USA?

Did you look up the testing rates and percent of positive tests? The change in the rate of positive tests?

Did you compare the death rates early on to the current rates? 

Did you check to see how many of the people contracting CoVid wore a mask and did all the 'how to avoid' steps? - We actually have data on this one.

Did you look at any of the adverse second and third order effects of masks and lockdowns?

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19 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

The Danish Study This study used surgical masks and educated people on how to use them. Half the 6000+/- wore masks and half didn't. 42 of the mask wears caught (42/3000=1.4%) CoVid and 52 of the no-maskers caught it (52/3000=1.7%). If you are concerned about dying then the obvious choice from this data is wear a mask. But if you are  healthy and are aware of the damage masks do to people your choice may be different. Especially since there is little detail on the participants in the article as published.

According to many researchers, scientists, and doctors the Danish study has serious limitations -- you can scroll down to the bottom of the Danish study you cited to see comments about these limitations, some with links to other studies. Also, here's a good article for clarification on the limitations of the Danish study:
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-7499

Can you provide some credible links claiming mask-wearing is dangerous? From everything I've seen this was a myth spreading around on Facebook a few months ago and has been debunked.

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16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

According to many researchers, scientists, and doctors the Danish study has serious limitations -- you can scroll down to the bottom of the Danish study you cited to see comments about these limitations, some with links to other studies. Also, here's a good article for clarification on the limitations of the Danish study:
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-7499

Can you provide some credible links claiming mask-wearing is dangerous? From everything I've seen this was a myth spreading around on Facebook a few months ago and has been debunked.

What? You are too lazy to type it in a search engine?

DuckDuckGo or Google

Both engines provide a mix of "masks are good" and "masks are bad" articles. You can cherry pick them get the opinion of various 'reputable' authors. It is also interesting to compare Google and Ducks results.

It is also interesting to notice which camps are Pro and Anti mask and their likely affiliations.

Edited by Nalates Urriah
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19 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

The result of all the studies is we still don't actually know. We all have our opinions and we are entitled to them. But do we have a right to force our opinions on others?

 

6 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Mask wearing is an individual choice... until the fascist take over and mandate it. The problem is getting good information. We have lots of "wear a mask" info and supporters. But like the video the information and data are incomplete to the point of being useless for an informed decision. In the US big tech is censoring anything that questions mask usage regardless of how reputable the source.

We are entitled to our opinions, but not to our own facts. Sometimes, maybe most of the time, we never know what the truth is with 100% certainty -- but as the science evolves on any matter we get a high probability that such-and-such is true, and so we have to go with that and even though we aren't 100% certain something is true we call the conclusion a 'fact'.  It's the best we can do.

I consider it perfectly fine to mandate a safety measure that saves lives, even if we haven't proved with 100% certainty that they do indeed save lives. I see enough studies that point to their efficacy...reputable studies following the Scientific method...and that is good enough for me.

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9 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:
25 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

According to many researchers, scientists, and doctors the Danish study has serious limitations -- you can scroll down to the bottom of the Danish study you cited to see comments about these limitations, some with links to other studies. Also, here's a good article for clarification on the limitations of the Danish study:
https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-7499

Can you provide some credible links claiming mask-wearing is dangerous? From everything I've seen this was a myth spreading around on Facebook a few months ago and has been debunked.

Expand  

What? You are too lazy to type it in a search engine?

DuckDuckGo or Google

Both engines provide a mix of "masks are good" and "masks are bad" articles. You can cherry pick them get the opinion of various 'reputable' authors. It is also interesting to compare Google and Ducks results.

It is also interesting to notice which camps are Pro and Anti mask and their likely affiliations.

I follow the science -- I pay attention to which articles follow the scientific method, or cite scientific sources, in an attempt to arrive at truth.

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34 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:
50 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Can you provide some credible links claiming mask-wearing is dangerous? From everything I've seen this was a myth spreading around on Facebook a few months ago and has been debunked.

What? You are too lazy to type it in a search engine?

DuckDuckGo or Google

Both engines provide a mix of "masks are good" and "masks are bad" articles. You can cherry pick them get the opinion of various 'reputable' authors. It is also interesting to compare Google and Ducks results.

It is also interesting to notice which camps are Pro and Anti mask and their likely affiliations.

It doesn't matter that there are equal numbers of 'masks are good or bad' articles -- which ones are using the scientific method to arrive at truth?

Again, can you find any scientific articles or studies claiming that wearing a mask is dangerous? If so, it could be fun to evaluate how good their experiment is.

* We can also learn about the scientific method by doing this.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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27 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

We are entitled to our opinions, but not to our own facts. Sometimes, maybe most of the time, we never know what the truth is with 100% certainty -- but as the science evolves on any matter we get a high probability that such-and-such is true, and so we have to go with that and even though we aren't 100% certain something is true we call the conclusion a 'fact'.  It's the best we can do.

I consider it perfectly fine to mandate a safety measure that saves lives, even if we haven't proved with 100% certainty that they do indeed save lives. I see enough studies that point to their efficacy...reputable studies following the Scientific method...and that is good enough for me.

In many things we do lack 100% certainty and lack facts, either because we can't find them or they don't exist. And we still have to make a decision. At that point we go with opinion.

You got that wrong, which is why I suspect you think you are following the science. If we are not certain and multiple independent tests cannot repeat the result we call it a theory or opinion. We call it a hypothesis until we develop a theory that can be tested. If test results can not consistently provide support for the theory, it is discarded or modified. Only when we have consistent correct prediction and all data agrees do we call it a proven fact.

You may consider it "fine" to issue mandates some think save lives. I think one needs to consider whether the mandates actually save more lives than they cost before issuing them. This is the problem with lockdowns and masks now. Ducks or Google. The politicians are not following the science. School lockdowns are the best example of that. We have massive data that the younger you are the more resistant you are to CoVid and k-12 kids basically do not get or spread CoVid. 

So why lockdown the schools? People like you don't question and are just fine with whatever the politicians do.

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

It doesn't matter that there are equal numbers of 'masks are good or bad' articles -- which ones are using the scientific method to arrive at truth?

Again, can you find any scientific articles or studies claiming that wearing a mask is dangerous? If so, it could be fun to evaluate how good their experiment is.

* We can also learn about the scientific method by doing this.

You are looking really lazy and uninterested in facts.

I never considered the count of articles as a proof of anything. Where did you get that idea?

I saved you doing the initial step of the search. You can pick your articles and make your decisions.

Edited by Nalates Urriah
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@Nalates Urriah

Please answer this.

Can you find any scientific articles or studies claiming that wearing a mask is dangerous? If so, it could be fun to evaluate how good their experiment is.

* We can also learn about the scientific method by doing this.

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7 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

We have massive data that the younger you are the more resistant you are to CoVid and k-12 kids basically do not get or spread CoVid. 

 Children, like adults, who have COVID-19 but have no symptoms (“asymptomatic”) can still spread the virus to others.

Most children with COVID-19 have mild symptoms or have no symptoms at all. However, some children can get severely ill from COVID-19. They might require hospitalization, intensive care, or a ventilator to help them breathe. In rare cases, they might die.

We don't even know how many children have actually had it since most who do don't show symptoms.  To say they don't get it is ridiculous or that if they do, they don't spread it.

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1 minute ago, Nalates Urriah said:

I did. I gave you 2 lists. Keep up.

I'm kind of slow today so I guess you'll have to provide those studies again so we can continue this debate on whether masks are dangerous.

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1 minute ago, RowanMinx said:

 Children, like adults, who have COVID-19 but have no symptoms (“asymptomatic”) can still spread the virus to others.

Most children with COVID-19 have mild symptoms or have no symptoms at all. However, some children can get severely ill from COVID-19. They might require hospitalization, intensive care, or a ventilator to help them breathe. In rare cases, they might die.

We don't even know how many children have actually had it since most who do don't show symptoms.  To say they don't get it is ridiculous or that if they do, they don't spread it.

Your are right. Being ALL INCLUSIVE would ignore the fact there have been exceptions. But, last I checked we have no documented cases of child to adult transmission. We intuitively think it must be so. But we lack the evidence. People have been looking and studying the lack of child-to-adult transmission phenomenon. Can you point to any data?

When I said "basically" I implied the statistical evidence shows children are mostly immune. Those with health issues are exceptions and provide the cases we have seen. But so few are susceptible it is reasonable to consider they are immune and there is no reason to inflict the psychological damage that isolation and lost education lockdowns are inflicting.

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51 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

We are entitled to our opinions, but not to our own facts. Sometimes, maybe most of the time, we never know what the truth is with 100% certainty -- but as the science evolves on any matter we get a high probability that such-and-such is true, and so we have to go with that and even though we aren't 100% certain something is true we call the conclusion a 'fact'.  It's the best we can do.

I consider it perfectly fine to mandate a safety measure that saves lives, even if we haven't proved with 100% certainty that they do indeed save lives. I see enough studies that point to their efficacy...reputable studies following the Scientific method...and that is good enough for me.

Expand  

In many things we do lack 100% certainty and lack facts, either because we can't find them or they don't exist. And we still have to make a decision. At that point we go with opinion.

You got that wrong, which is why I suspect you think you are following the science.

Well if you want to call it 'opinion' then okay, but where is your 'opinion' (backed up by scientific tests) that claims masks are dangerous?

Edited by Luna Bliss
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image.thumb.png.da66d995d1327527812dcda4314fedfa.png

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/27/covid-coronavirus-update-black-friday/

 

People who don't wear masks, don't wash hands, don't social distance = fools   Actually dangerous fools who have made the level of covid out there so overwhelming that they make it so much more likely that ANYONE will get the plague.

Yay personal freedom! Don't take my freedom! I can't wear a mask because it won't protect me 100% and is therefore useless!

Give me Liberty or...   

Live Free or ...

Pet peeve: people

Hey, it ain't black friday ... now it is black death friday! yay 

Edited by Gatogateau
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Mercifully, no-one I know has suffered or died from Covid-19. It certainly was weird and scary earlier this year going out to deserted streets full of closed-up shops, strict spacing rules on public transport and supermarkets. I bought cheap Chinese clones of the 3M 6200 and 6800 masks in February and they've served me well. Even after factoring in the cost of replacement filter packs, they've worked out cheaper than buying paper disposables over the same time period. An extra bonus is that the 6200 mask, which I use for cycling, is excellent at exhaust fumes. No more gagging on diesel or 2-stroke pollution!

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1 minute ago, Nalates Urriah said:
14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm kind of slow today so I guess you'll have to provide those studies again so we can continue this debate on whether masks are dangerous.

OMG. You are too lazy to scroll up? 

Studies please....that claim masks are dangerous....actual scientific studies..

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6 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Your are right. Being ALL INCLUSIVE would ignore the fact there have been exceptions. But, last I checked we have no documented cases of child to adult transmission. We intuitively think it must be so. But we lack the evidence. People have been looking and studying the lack of child-to-adult transmission phenomenon. Can you point to any data?

When I said "basically" I implied the statistical evidence shows children are mostly immune. Those with health issues are exceptions and provide the cases we have seen. But so few are susceptible it is reasonable to consider they are immune and there is no reason to inflict the psychological damage that isolation and lost education lockdowns are inflicting.

National Trends of Cases of COVID-19 in Children Based on US State Health Department Data | American Academy of Pediatrics (aappublications.org)

Only stands to reason (if you're reasonable) that children CAN and possibly DO transmit it to others since they don't practice hygiene as rigorously as they should.

Edited by RowanMinx
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3 minutes ago, Alazarin said:

Mercifully, no-one I know has suffered or died from Covid-19. It certainly was weird and scary earlier this year going out to deserted streets full of closed-up shops, strict spacing rules on public transport and supermarkets. I bought cheap Chinese clones of the 3M 6200 and 6800 masks in February and they've served me well. Even after factoring in the cost of replacement filter packs, they've worked out cheaper than buying paper disposables over the same time period. An extra bonus is that the 6200 mask, which I use for cycling, is excellent at exhaust fumes. No more gagging on diesel or 2-stroke pollution!

At least we've got the vaccination program to look forward to, so things might get back to normal next year.

Full%20Mask%20at%20ASDA-01.jpg

Cycling%20Mask%202020-02.jpg

Edited by Alazarin
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7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Studies please....that claim masks are dangerous....actual scientific studies..

I don't know about scientific studies but I did a short test with my own mask and pulse oxymeter. Mask wearing made no difference to my blood oxygen level.

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2 minutes ago, Alazarin said:

I don't know about scientific studies but I did a short test with my own mask and pulse oxymeter. Mask wearing made no difference to my blood oxygen level.

It does for me, but I have underlying respiratory issues to begin with. 

That is one of the reasons I avoid going out - though 'people' in general is my primary reason.

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9 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

It does for me, but I have underlying respiratory issues to begin with. 

That is one of the reasons I avoid going out - though 'people' in general is my primary reason.

Fair enough. I get a steady reading of 98% with or without a mask. That's the baseline I've established with my cheapo pule oximeter over the last 6+ months.

Mask-Oxy-03.jpg

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