Jump to content

Do you need to vent about things COVID-19?


You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 156 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

Um. The quote you clipped was in regard to something very specific that Maryanne said that I said/thought/did. Maryanne was wrong. The fact that she is employed to read as part of her government job is cool, but doesn't make her less wrong in her assertion that what I stated even before all of that (yes, this gets a little woozy in the retelling) was making Americans without hope and doomed. She didn't read correctly and her assertion was wrong.

So you quoting me to go on a rant about mask wearing and god knows what else (truthfully tl:dr)... was out of place.

Masks work, btw. That's the short of it.

Do they prevent everything. No. But who is stupid enough to say they do?

Well i was agreeing with her that you did make it about political preferences when you said:

Quote

But there are a whole lotta people who just don't get it. I'm not saying it is a 1:1 ratio of those who don't get it and those who voted for Trump, but I'm guessing it is close, and there were an amazing number of people who voted for Trump & the anti-science, anti-common sense, anti-neighbor, etc. crappola that go along with.

I then followed it up with links to articles and governmental recommendations that point out the whole mask thing is potentially nothing more then superstition and warm fuzzy feelings for those wanting to see everyone doing their part to stop the spread, even if the "facts of masking" don't really warrant it.

  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I then followed it up with links to articles and governmental recommendations that point out the whole mask thing is potentially nothing more then superstition and warm fuzzy feelings for those wanting to see everyone doing their part to stop the spread, even if the "facts of masking" don't really warrant it.

That's far too generous a characterization of those links.

  1. No amount of data can justify accepting the null hypothesis.
  2. Especially never accept the null hypothesis from a meta-analysis across multiple studies that never rejects a single null hypothesis.

The studies are laughable. On their "evidence" we may as well cough in each other's faces directly with no attempt to cover our mouths,* and never wash our hands.** If their analytical methodology can find no benefit from anything else, it's not very compelling that they don't find it for wearing masks either.

_____________
*"We did not identify any published research on the effectiveness of respiratory etiquette in reducing the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza or ILI."
**"However, results from our meta-analysis on RCTs did not provide evidence to support a protective effect of hand hygiene against transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza."

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

To clear up the confusion, I will argue that the scientific evidence not only does not support the community wearing of face masks, but the evidence shows that healthy people wearing face masks pose serious health risks to wearers. https://www.meehanmd.com/blog/2020-10-10-an-evidence-based-scientific-analysis-of-why-masks-are-ineffective-unnecessary-and-harmful/

https://americanloons.blogspot.com/2018/03/1989-jim-meehan_31.html

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/prevention.html

What could the CDC's advice possibly be regarding handwashing and facemasks?

I wonder what I could find if I did a PubMed search for something like Covid-19 and masks? Has anyone published such studies? Why yes they have! I wonder what they found?

Stop being stupid.

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

That's far too generous a characterization of those links.

  1. No amount of data can justify accepting the null hypothesis.
  2. Especially never accept the null hypothesis from a meta-analysis across multiple studies that never rejects a single null hypothesis.

The studies are laughable. On their "evidence" we may as well cough in each other's faces directly with no attempt to cover our mouths,* and never wash our hands.** If their analytical methodology can find no benefit from anything else, it's not very compelling that they don't find it for wearing masks either.

_____________
*"We did not identify any published research on the effectiveness of respiratory etiquette in reducing the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza or ILI."
**"However, results from our meta-analysis on RCTs did not provide evidence to support a protective effect of hand hygiene against transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza."

Which studies are you referring to? All the ones listed on the Meehand site show negligible statistical effect to wearing masks:

 

Quote

 

Radonovich, L.J. et al., N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial, JAMA. 2019; 322(9): 824–833. doi:10.1001/jama.2019.11645, 2019. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

“Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. … Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See e.g., Patrick Saunders-Hastings, et, al., Effectiveness of personal protective measures in reducing pandemic influenza transmission: A systematic review and meta-analysis, Epidemics, v. 20 (September 2017)

An April 2020 review by the Norwich School of Medicine found that “the evidence is not sufficiently strong to support widespread use of face masks”, but supports the use of masks by “particularly vulnerable individuals when in transient higher risk situations.”

[Recent studies] found that about a third of the [healthcare] workers developed headaches with use of the mask, most had preexisting headaches that were worsened by the mask wearing, and 60% required pain medications for relief. As to the cause of the headaches, while straps and pressure from the mask could be causative, the bulk of the evidence points toward hypoxia and/or hypercapnia as the cause. That is, a reduction in blood oxygenation (hypoxia) or an elevation in blood C02 (hypercapnia).

It is known that the N95 mask, if worn for hours, can reduce blood oxygenation as much as 20%, which can lead to a loss of consciousness.

See also Denis G. Rancourt, PhD, Masks Don't Work: A review of science relevant to COVID-19 social policy, Ontario Civil Liberties Association, April 11, 2020. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340570735

There have been extensive randomized controlled trial (RCT) studies, and meta-analysis reviews of RCT studies, which all show that masks and respirators do not work to prevent respiratory influenza-like illnesses, or respiratory illnesses believed to be transmitted by droplets and aerosol particles.

Furthermore, the relevant known physics and biology, which I review, are such that masks and respirators should not work. It would be a paradox if masks and respirators worked, given what we know about viral respiratory diseases: The main transmission path is long residence-time aerosol particles (< 2.5 µm), which are too fine to be blocked, and the minimum-infective-dose is smaller than one aerosol particle.

 

Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial, American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 – 419 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216002

“N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches.”

“Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.”

 

 

I think it is interesting too that even here in Ontario where most wear masks in any public settings, the current rise in cases we are witnessing happened in spite of the masks. Good chance that the masks started to give people a false sense of security that the masks were a cure all for covid and they could let up on the handwashing and cleaning of surface contaminations which is probably the greater risk of being infected.

Regardless of the mode, the fact is that there is plenty of science on both sides of the controversy that it is BS to claim one party or another is anti science.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/prevention.html

What could the CDC's advice possibly be regarding handwashing and facemasks?

I wonder what I could find if I did a PubMed search for something like Covid-19 and masks? Has anyone published such studies? Why yes they have! I wonder what they found?

Stop being stupid.

 

Link to a pub med study?

Did you see this bit?

 

Quote

 

Know how it spreads

  • COVID-19 spreads easily from person to person, mainly by the following routes:
    • Between people who are in close contact with one another (within 6 feet).
    • Through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, breathes, sings or talks.

 

 

So breathing and talking are already enough to transmit the virus to others and from that perspective alone, it shows why masks are perhaps statistically negligible in preventing the spread. One study noted the difference between control groups of mask wearing people and ones without would account for 1 additional case in 200,000. 

    •  
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to get in a fight with anti-mask people but I really think this video is a good watch and a convincing argument. And he is independent and never gets into politics.

ETA: It is a bit long so go to 22:30 if you prefer, it's worth it.

Edited by Rat Luv
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Well i was agreeing with her that you did make it about political preferences when you said:

I then followed it up with links to articles and governmental recommendations that point out the whole mask thing is potentially nothing more then superstition and warm fuzzy feelings for those wanting to see everyone doing their part to stop the spread, even if the "facts of masking" don't really warrant it.

well ok then

And, also, you too need to read more closely. I absolutely said there is not a 1:1 ratio. But yes, there does seem to be a lot more not wearing of masks, or like you, believing that masks even work, amongst those that voted for Trump than not. Just a frikkin fact. It is political? So be it. I can't tackle y'all and slap a mask on you, as much as I want to. You want a virus to be political? It is your answers that more make Maryanne's point than mine. :::shrug:::

I'm not going to engage in Trumper science discussion because that's just a real waste of my time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wasn't it like... in grade school... we were taught, quite rightly: Wash your hands to prevent spreading of a lot (not all folks) germs. And "cover your mouth when you cough, you gross kid."?

These basic steps have been known for quite a while. So... all of a sudden we need extra studies, make it political, claim "foul!" and "conspiracy!" to... wash your hands, cover your mouth/face and stand away from people because you don't know if they are contagious.

Yeah. Right.

I was just in the hospital for two visits/stays. You know, I never saw ANYONE arguing that the doctors, nurses and surgeons should stop washing their hands, or should not wear masks, or I dunno, don't lick the patients in the mouths.

What is WRONG with you people? And Maryanne wants to make people like me, who see the fools and point, be the problem. How about... the fools are the problem?

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fools are the ones that think it only happens to someone else. a lot of people got fooled by decreasing numbers in the summer..

There are probably more not wearing masks or washing their hands or avoiding social distancing that didn't vote or not fan boys of either candidate.. the ones that only wear them when they are told to,like at work or going into a store..

There has been too many instances, especially after shutdowns and close in's started getting lifted..

look how quickly people started heading to boardwalks, beaches and parks right away, not social distancing, not wearing masks and more than likely not washing their hands all the time like they should.. Just crowding back up like it was the good ole days..

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

The fools are the ones that think it only happens to someone else. a lot of people got fooled by decreasing numbers in the summer..

There are probably more not wearing masks or washing their hands or avoiding social distancing that didn't vote or not fan boys of either candidate.. the ones that only wear them when they are told to,like at work or going into a store..

There has been too many instances, especially after shutdowns and close in's started getting lifted..

look how quickly people started heading to boardwalks, beaches and parks right away, not social distancing, not wearing masks and more than likely not washing their hands all the time like they should.. Just crowding back up like it was the good ole days..

 

Yup, all fools. And I think we should ALL stop trying to be politically correct and make excuses and puszyfoot around the issue that this is foolish, stupid behavior. Period.

Oooooh. It doesn't stop ALL of it. Oooooooh. You can't prove you stopped a single case....

Oh ffs. Grow up.

Guess what? We're gonna see a spike around Christmas time from all the fools who think "it can't happen to me or mine" tomorrow.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been wearing mine  and around people since may 31st.. We've got new hires coming into work, like 10 to 20 a week just on my shift..

I have to sit and meet with every one of them.

My mask uses 5 layer filters..  haven't caught it yet and my breathing is fine.. in fact with all the increase boosting with smoothies and juicing I've been doing since a week before I was to report back to work.. I'm in the best health I've ever been in..

 

I'm hearing of peoples families getting it and some at work getting tested.. But nobody at work has tested positive yet.. Knocks on wood..

From talking to the people I did in the last two weeks.. Most are not doing thanks giving..

Anyways, back to it..

In my opinion and that's all it is.. Masks have an impact on at least slowing things down.. We need to do all the things suggested to reduce risk, not just one..

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

Yup, all fools. And I think we should ALL stop trying to be politically correct and make excuses and puszyfoot around the issue that this is foolish, stupid behavior. Period.

Oooooh. It doesn't stop ALL of it. Oooooooh. You can't prove you stopped a single case....

Oh ffs. Grow up.

Guess what? We're gonna see a spike around Christmas time from all the fools who think "it can't happen to me or mine" tomorrow.

I think things are gonna spike up here about 5 days after thanksgiving..

Yup, politics seems to stray from the reality of the situation and tries to lay blame on sides.. In my eyes that's a distraction from what's really going on..

It's much better to look at human nature..

Everyone think about how many people any of us know that go through life not taking a lot of things they should, serious?

I know I would need more hands to keep counting.. hehehe

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're all grumpy and frustrated.

But just because we are all sick and tired of wearing those damned uncomfortable masks, and guessing if we're six feet away, doesn't mean the COVID is going to go away! But that's how a lot of people are acting! "I'm SO DONE with this," like that some how makes it ok to stop taking precautions.

@Ceka Cianci yes, human nature. For sure. And of course I do dumb things against my own best interest as well. I do tend to stop that when I'm endangering OTHER people by doing so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Maryanne Solo said:

You are an alt, (or something), you have ZERO credibility.
Continue your charade with someone else.

LoL. Because I post sometimes using GiGi and sometimes Seicher that gives me no credibility?

Well, thank you credibility dispenser!

It is zero secret that GiGi is an alternate account. I can't make it any plainer.

But honestly Maryanne, that's one of the dumbest things I've seen you type in the 10+ years I've read your posts.

Edited to add: I don't even know WHAT kind of logic fallacy that is, either. What I say is correct. But it can't be correct because of who I am, or am not? 

Not to mention Maryanne is an avatar in a virtual world, so that bestows massive credibility on you? Over other avatars?

The mind boggles.

Edited by Gatogateau
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Maryanne Solo said:

OMG how petty? Are you a Trump supporter? 😂

Are you unaware of how to use the quote function? Because in a busy, public thread it is pretty difficult with these new comments to understand who the eff you are ranting at?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are about to reply to a thread that has been inactive for 156 days.

Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...