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29 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

With this statement ^^^ of course I agree.

Second-term Reagan had people around him who kept him from being perceived as totally off his trolly. Biden isn't my first or even second or even third choice but I will vote for him for sooooo many reasons, most of them being, "Not Trump." You get 10 points for using "vociferous" in a Forum post and bonus points for using it correctly. Biden says idiotic things but they are not near the idiotic things Trump spews. Biden makes gaffs. Trump wants you to inject disinfectant.

I mean ffs, Trump makes me long for the brilliance of W.

Yup. But in the better of evils, pretty much anything (except maybe Pence) is better than Trump. Yay...

Since we are continuously faced with deciding the lesser of two evils, perhaps it is time we changed how our leaders are chosen.  I may be forced to write in Jimmy Carter this time around, assuming he's alive in November, it's gotten so bad.  Carter was an incompetent schmuck, but I can honestly say I'd take him over any of the presidents thus far in this millennium.

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*****ing *****ed up mother *****ers are *****ing the whole *****ing *****ed up ****sucking *****head *****s. And then some.

Cutting in with a rando side comment because I haven’t kept up - I’m tired of all the conspiracy theories behind it, and all the Americans on my feeds (note: I am also an American) pointing fingers at

You are out over your skis here Saucey. Babies with jaundice receive UV/Blue phototherapy because exposing blood to UV aids oxidation of the toxic bilirubin in it. A significant volume of blood reache

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

The numbers vary, like everywhere else, but the Smithfield plant in SD had 700-800 people test positive for the virus.

I couldn't find reliable numbers (I only tried a so-so amount) for the number of people who contracted COVID-19 or the ones who died from it, but obviously those numbers are far less than 700-800. The plant, btw, employs something like 1500 people. And is in what people in SD call an urban area. It was a densely packed area (no pun intended).0

The total increase number of deaths in SD from the start of the Smithfield outbreak to 2 weeks later was 15 (from 6 to 21)

Edited by Tolya Ugajin
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22 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

FDR is said to have had polio, but there is some debate about that now. He didn't die of polio. He died of a cerebral hemorrhage, that might have been due to cancer.

 

Hehe, thx for correcting me: I really need to bone up on my American history. :) Fortunately, that's exactly what it is: history. Polio is nowadays just vague memory -- and praised be those who made that happen.

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11 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

It's a lousy bargain either way.

Yes.

12 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Businesses cannot stop themselves from going under, thus making their employees unemployed, poorer, more likely to lose their homes, more likely to suffer from all sorts of problems caused by a recession or depression, if they are prevented from opening. 

Yes. And you are correct that the fallout from homelessness and depression is going to be huge. There's a whole nuther discussion about just how ill prepared our mental health system is for all the people needing help. It was already in horrid shape. Yes, people will die. Not arguing that.

14 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

I can, however, decide not to visit my 106 year old grandmother

Yes. And if I had a grandmother I could, too. There are a lot of people who can make reasonable choices. However, I believe the number of absolute idiots out there who could mess up everyone are in higher numbers than people who won't do that. I have next to zero faith in humans and their ability to be intelligent. I believe you share that view.

16 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Businesses can make decisions to continue having employees work from home, and all sorts of other options to minimize risk. 

Oh sure, they CAN but my faith in businesses to be anything other than bottom-line, short-term greedy is less than my next to zero faith in humans, as stated above. There are too many examples of that being true, and one that instantly comes to mind is that Smithfield plant.

18 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

  The current approach in 43 of 50 US states (and as far as I can tell every developed country other than Sweden) is to act as if preventing a single Covid death is worth all the long-term harm

I think the approach to self-distance, etc. isn't made to prevent a single COVID-19 death (although that would be nice), I think a lot of it is because nobody knows what the heck is going on, the information and data changes daily and so social isolation does work to prevent the spread and you go with that until something else comes along that makes as much sense. If anyone is NOT worried about the economy, well, that's just silly too. But it is pitting projection against projection. Projecting COVID deaths by opening up the economy too soon verus projecting deaths due to suicide, drug abuse, domestic violence, etc.

NO ONE knows. I don't. You don't. There are some better guesses, and none of them involve injecting disinfectants or taking anti-malarials...

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:
54 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If you don't care about poor people, if you feel it's okay that a certain percentage remain at the bottom of society in the US so that more can be funneled to the top in the name of freedom then YES....I can't see you caring about the starving people you're suddenly championing who might increasingly starve if the wealthier worlds economies tank.

And I have said I don't care about poor people, where, exactly?

I can close my eyes and see the spittle of insensate rage flying from your lips while you slanderously misrepresent what I say.  I do hope your orgasm of self-righteousness feels good, but, frankly, the fact that you cannot attribute a difference of opinion as to how to best alleviate poverty to anything but hate and disdain makes you look rather pathetic.

* looks for "the spittle of insensate rage"

All one has to do is look at the policies of Republicans and see they don't care about the poor, as their intentions are always to funnel more to the wealthy and take more from the disadvantaged. They see poverty as a moral failing. I can't count the number times you have put down the "worker bees", which is where I base my opinion of your thoughts on the poor.  So for you to suddenly care about poor people in Africa is ludicrous.

You even prefaced your concern with  " So let me ask the SJW's among us"  -- as if anyone truly caring about the disadvantaged is exhibiting some sort of fake stance? That there really could be no concern because anyone who cares is actually a Social Justice Warrior who only pretends to care?   I mean, if you don't believe anybody else really cares then how could you?

 

Edited by Luna Bliss
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16 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

The total increase number of deaths in SD from the start of the Smithfield outbreak to 2 weeks later was 15 (from 6 to 21)

Hm. I am not an epidemiologist (I can't even spell it without correction), but if you take a middle number of 750 for the people who tested positive as I stated, and 15 as the deaths, then that's a 2% morbidity rate? But that's just people who tested positive for the virus, not the people who actually got COVID, so if that is the morbidity rate (sigh, I should look it up, but I don't wanna)... 15 deaths/COVID cases, it would be higher than 2%.

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25 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Since we are continuously faced with deciding the lesser of two evils, perhaps it is time we changed how our leaders are chosen.  I may be forced to write in Jimmy Carter this time around, assuming he's alive in November, it's gotten so bad.  Carter was an incompetent schmuck, but I can honestly say I'd take him over any of the presidents thus far in this millennium.

You won't get an argument from me on that, either. I think our election season is too long. I think the way the primaries are done, with Iowa and NH with a combined population of 42 and some cows calling the early shots is stupid. The electoral college is past its usefulness. Voting from home. Then there is gerrymandering and all sorts of other issues. So, yup, I think there's lots of places for change. I ain't holding my breath on that, either. 

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38 minutes ago, Sassy Kenin said:

you & the 'Hateful Eight'

I really hope I’m one of the Hateful Eight! Or is it Hateful Nine now that Seicher joined?

Hateful Nine just doesn’t have the same ring to it, though...

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Cutting in with a rando side comment because I haven’t kept up - I’m tired of all the conspiracy theories behind it, and all the Americans on my feeds (note: I am also an American) pointing fingers at each other’s political parties as to the reason. I don’t really care whose fault it is, and I don’t care who you think is more superior - I just want it to stop. 
 

My dad died of Covid19 last month and we couldn’t have a funeral or visitation or even be with him in the hospital, and I wasn’t permitted to drive cross country to begin with to be with my family, so this entire mess can kiss my butt. As somebody who is personally affected, I promise that this isn’t just some made up thing that the media is doing. 

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11 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I really hope I’m one of the Hateful Eight! Or is it Hateful Nine now that Seicher joined?

Hateful Nine just doesn’t have the same ring to it, though...

Ikr? I was trying to figure out who all of them were and I couldn't get more than five I think.

Really, ten would be ideal. Then we could get decimated somehow, like if I get removed again, I'd get decimated! The real definition of the word! 

I dunno.

You wanna know what really sucks? You know in the pet peeve thread about the "winning"? Well this 23rd hour frantic back-and-forthing in this stoopid thread I think has me pushed me into #2 for the 6th and so far #1 for the 7th. (I have no idea what time zone they are using. GMT?) Ewwwwwwwwwwwwww. Demmit. I need a shower now.

BUT the Hateful Undetermined Number be all like:

 

TS shake it off.gif

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7 minutes ago, norajulian said:

Cutting in with a rando side comment because I haven’t kept up - I’m tired of all the conspiracy theories behind it, and all the Americans on my feeds (note: I am also an American) pointing fingers at each other’s political parties as to the reason. I don’t really care whose fault it is, and I don’t care who you think is more superior - I just want it to stop. 
 

My dad died of Covid19 last month and we couldn’t have a funeral or visitation or even be with him in the hospital, and I wasn’t permitted to drive cross country to begin with to be with my family, so this entire mess can kiss my butt. As somebody who is personally affected, I promise that this isn’t just some made up thing that the media is doing. 

I'm trying to stay away from as much of the crazy conspiracy theories that I can, so I gather you are saying some people think COVID is because of Dems or GOP?

Now to the important part of your post. I wish I had something useful to say, but there are no words to reply, other than I am so sorry for your loss, and to have to go through all of it alone, with none of the important family gatherings... just... that's so awful. Sigh. Please accept my condolences and a virtual hug.

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Just now, Lyssa Greymoon said:

I think she's teasing us all to make everyone think they might be one of the cool kids, then crushing our dreams.

But, but, but... that would be so mean! 😞

I'm rather devastated and more than a little confused if Beth isn't on the list. FFS she's on everyone else's list.

♥ U Beth. :)

 

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2 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

I'm trying to stay away from as much of the crazy conspiracy theories that I can, so I gather you are saying some people think COVID is because of Dems or GOP?

I’ve read some of the silliest things during the last couple of months, and as the isolation continues, the pure hatefulness from both sides continue to increase. Some people genuinely believe that the elusive “other side” is infecting everyone to turn the USA against their competitor. These posts are always politically motivated, but it’s apparent that some of these people genuinely believe what they’re posting.

Thank you for your condolences. It’s been a tough thing to wrap my head around, and I’m thankful to have received the strong support from those few friends of mine in SL who I have told. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

You even prefaced your concern with  " So let me ask the SJW's among us"  -- as if anyone truly caring about the disadvantaged is exhibiting some sort of fake stance? That there really could be no concern because anyone who cares is actually a Social Justice Warrior who only pretends to care?   I mean, if you don't believe anybody else really cares then how could you?

 

I knew a rather sick girl once. She used to go online, endlessly trolling ppl, for months on end, saying she was a teen mother or something, and needed emotional support -- like a 'sapper', but more malicious. It was all fake, of course. One day, while trashing others, she was accusing them of a similar scheme. No one naturally believed her, because she had made the story way too outrageous. To her, however, it all actually sounded plausible -- like something normal ppl do. And that's the point of the story: to her, the fib sounded entirely legit, as she was used to doing those things herself.

Thus, those asking "So let me ask the SJW's among us" is really just their way of informing you they themselves do not care, because 'exhibiting some sort of fake stance' is what they'd be doing themselves, simply not grasping ppl could actually genuinely care for someone without ulterior motive.

Edited by kiramanell
And if only I could type properly
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41 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

But, but, but... that would be so mean! 😞

I'm rather devastated and more than a little confused if Beth isn't on the list. FFS she's on everyone else's list.

♥ U Beth. :)

 

"You can be on some people's lists some of the time, and on some people's lists all the time, but you cannot be on all people's lists all the time." ... Except Beth. 😜 That's why she's our Queen. 👑

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4 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

"You can be on some people's lists some of the time, and on some people's lists all the time, but you cannot be on all people's lists all the time." ... Except Beth. 😜 That's why she's our Queen. 👑

I am soooooooooooo putting this on my profile! 😂😂😂

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I'll certainly agree that the US needs to change how it picks its leaders. The current system is an obscenely undemocratic mess. But short of dramatically amending the constitution, the republic is simply doomed. As the imbalance grows ever more absurd between unpopulated states with many senators and hence electors, on the one hand, and the vast majority of the population now barely represented, there will come a time of reckoning. I'm a little surprised the coronavirus crisis isn't (yet) the straw to break that camel's back.

I do think a grand union of Canada and the coastal US would make a lot of sense. Y'all can have Alberta in exchange -- you'll like it, there's oil and stuff!

Further on the topic of population, there was talk a few pages back about population density and contagion. That's not quite the right metric, although it's really hard to find a measure that's what we all really mean when we say "population density." The problem is that population density is a measure of how few people there are per square kilometer of average geography, and is not a measure of how little geography separates the average person from their neighbor. Canada is a great example of how population dispersion patterns can make this misleading: The average hectare of Canada has nobody living in it, but the average Canadian lives in a Toronto suburb. That contrast is common in countries with vast expanses of inhospitable terrain, as opposed to more generously temperate and arable lands. Anyway, it's where the people are that matters to how fast disease spreads, so Canada is hardly immune, with everybody packed into a few large cities and quite narrow strips of populated land along the southern border and two of three coasts.

Finally, I find it amazing how much governments are willing to spend to prop up businesses, compared to the paltry amount they'll begrudgingly bestow on starving, sick and suffering people those businesses might claim to serve. The contradiction here is that those people, as employees, are forever told to "embrace change" -- usually a euphemism for needing to find a new job, sooner or later. Meanwhile, the businesses -- brittle and vulnerable and overleveraged in the best of times -- are propped up on the premise that they'll be where those people go to work when it's all over. Maybe, but many of those businesses could fail and be replaced by new enterprises spawned from the survivors or from entrepreneurs with little difference to employment near term, and a more robust economy long term. Embrace change, SBA, and pay the people instead.

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6 hours ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Biden isn't my first or even second or even third choice but I will vote for him for sooooo many reasons, most of them being, "Not Trump."

I really hope most Americans follow this pattern of logic in the next election. I'm not optimistic but will remain hopeful. 

4 hours ago, kiramanell said:

"You can be on some people's lists some of the time, and on some people's lists all the time, but you cannot be on all people's lists all the time." ... Except Beth. 😜 That's why she's our Queen. 👑

This should read: " You can be on some people's lists all of the time, and on all people's lists some of the time, but you cannot be on all people's lists all of the time." ... 😄

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4 hours ago, PixieGirrrrl said:

I really hope most Americans follow this pattern of logic in the next election. I'm not optimistic but will remain hopeful. 

This should read: " You can be on some people's lists all of the time, and on all people's lists some of the time, but you cannot be on all people's lists all of the time." ... 😄

Ummm, I didn't say what you quoted me as saying

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9 hours ago, Seicher Rae said:

Hm. I am not an epidemiologist (I can't even spell it without correction), but if you take a middle number of 750 for the people who tested positive as I stated, and 15 as the deaths, then that's a 2% morbidity rate? But that's just people who tested positive for the virus, not the people who actually got COVID, so if that is the morbidity rate (sigh, I should look it up, but I don't wanna)... 15 deaths/COVID cases, it would be higher than 2%.

That is the increase in total deaths in the state.  As far as I can tell only 2 people died at Smithfield.  But, since I cannot be certain, I stated the upper limit possible.  Even if it's 15, it's hardly as awful an outbreak as it was made out to be, given individual nursing homes have had several times that many deaths (thanks to Cuomo ordering them to take Covid patients, which is about the most moronic idea ever, yet no bad press about that).  Covid is highly contagious (but fairly low lethality, whereas people act as if it's Ebola) and testing has been spotty at best, so basing comparisons on infections is unwise.  Not that basing comparisons on deaths is all that accurate, either, given the discrepancies on how that's been handled between states and over time.

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10 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

* looks for "the spittle of insensate rage"

All one has to do is look at the policies of Republicans and see they don't care about the poor, as their intentions are always to funnel more to the wealthy and take more from the disadvantaged. They see poverty as a moral failing. I can't count the number times you have put down the "worker bees", which is where I base my opinion of your thoughts on the poor.  So for you to suddenly care about poor people in Africa is ludicrous.

You even prefaced your concern with  " So let me ask the SJW's among us"  -- as if anyone truly caring about the disadvantaged is exhibiting some sort of fake stance? That there really could be no concern because anyone who cares is actually a Social Justice Warrior who only pretends to care?   I mean, if you don't believe anybody else really cares then how could you?

 

If you wish to continue parroting partisan nonsense from MSNBC, feel free.  I'm not going to engage further with someone who is incapable of debating beyond emotional histrionics, especially one who consistently misrepresents what I say.  Your blind hatred of any viewpoint other than your own is really sad, but all to common these days.

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