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10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, I'm going to begin by noting that you have not-so-adroitly dodged my question, which asked you for sources. You appear to have none that are reliable enough to post here?

Some of what I post is original and not sourced from any particular site. More of a connecting the dots which I suppose make me a conspiracy theorist. Worried yet? :)

Even so, I find that when I do use links to source, it is often discounted because of politics rather than any meaningful rebuttal of the science. No sense in continuing to give you and others such an easy out.

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I'm going to agree that a) ideology is never completely absent from even an academic setting (although most of the science people I know tend to lean a bit towards the conservative side), and that b) corporate funding of research is always an issue. Which is why critical thinking is always a good thing, even when reading science journals.

You being a self confessed Socialist would therefore be further left than the average lefty and would see them as conservative relative to you? From what I see and hear, academics are predominantly left leaning.

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As a sidenote, I find your association of a reliance on corporate funding -- "Big Pharma," i.e., big corporations -- and "left leaning publication" kind of hilarious. You do realize that the left doesn't like big corporations, right? And that we have lots of reasons to despise Big Pharma in particular? And what exactly are these "left leaning publications" of which you speak? Lancet, which is owned by Elsevier, one of the largest corporate academic publishers in world? The idea that most academic journals are "left leaning" is kind of a hoot, actually.

Leftists might not like them but they certainly seem to have no problem supporting them when they further the proper agenda. The lefts insistence on only a vaccine cure is making these hated corporations billions and trillions in profits. Funny way of not liking them ;)

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29 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Some of what I post is original and not sourced from any particular site. More of a connecting the dots which I suppose make me a conspiracy theorist. Worried yet?

Worried by you expounding theories and facts about something as important as the pandemic without presenting so much as a shred of actual evidence? Well, yes . . . a bit.

Here's a thought . . . how about providing some information about the "dots" that you are connecting?

29 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Even so, I find that when I do use links to source, it is often discounted because of politics rather than any meaningful rebuttal of the science. No sense in continuing to give you and others such an easy out.

The only time I can remember rebutting your sources was when I offered a point-by-point refutation, which included actual citations and quotes, of two sources you'd cited. The abstracts you quoted were poorly constructed research questions -- I pointed out exactly why. And you had frankly misused them, quoting out of context, which I also noted with citations.

I don't recall dismissing you because you were a "right wing crank." And, in fact, on one occasion, I've defended your participation here in this discussion against those who have.

29 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

From what I see and hear, academics are predominantly left leaning.

Overall, this may be somewhat true, but it varies by discipline. The humanities and maybe social sciences? Perhaps (although there are lots of conservatives in both -- Jordan Peterson is a psychologist, and although he's a bit far out in right field, he's far from alone). Business and the sciences? These tend to veer rather in the other direction.

Even the overtly progressive ones provide documented sources that can be examined and critiqued. And that's why it's important, if you want to make a real point, that you do the same.

29 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Leftists might not like them but they certainly seem to have no problem supporting them when they further the proper agenda.

Oh, but I do hate them, and many others besides. Big Pharma, to cite but two examples, is steadfast in its opposition to pharmacare, and the licensing of generic drugs. I despise George Soros, and even more so Jeff Bezos: their deployment of money and heft to get what they want is an absolute anathema to everything I believe in. They actually epitomize in that respect precisely what is wrong with modern day liberal capitalism.

i think you're painting with rather too broad a brush here. I am sure that there are lots of centrists and wishy-washy liberals who think Bezos is great. So far as real progressives are concerned, they are the enemy.

29 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The lefts insistence on only a vaccine cure

. . . is based on science. And we have well-documented, repeatable peer reviewed studies to back it up.

Do you? If so, can you show them to us?

 

ETA: Edited to remove a bit of (mostly) unintentional snark.

Here, have a flower, and a cookie, and a cup of tea.

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Unlike you

That's a bit of a low blow isn't it even if she isn't providing any kind of sources to back up her claims? I'm not trying to criticize you, it just took me a bit by surprise because it's not how you usually handle this sort of thing that I've seen. I hope everything is ok with you. 🤗

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3 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

That's a bit of a low blow isn't it even if she isn't providing any kind of sources to back up her claims? I'm not trying to criticize you, it just took me a bit by surprise because it's not how you usually handle this sort of thing that I've seen. I hope everything is ok with you. 🤗

Fair enough. It wasn't intended to sound snarky -- just literally a reflection of the difference. But I'll edit it to change the tone.

Tone is so difficult.

To be clear, I don't at all dislike Arielle, and, to repeat something I've said before, it's important to acknowledge that she is engaging here, and not just posting nonsense without comment or discussion.

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

Wow, but it's possible as my ex did work for hospitals (plural) as well as went to many out-patient clinics for his job so I could have been exposed to other things, but with CFS so little was known about it then and there still isn't much treatment.  It was Swine Flu that year though where there were minor precautions here in the states which were basically we were given anti-septic wipes upon arriving into the grocery store and were told to wipe down our carts before grocery shopping.  My ex encountered minor mask wearing that year of the Swine Flu as hospitals began insisting upon it for all employees but became lax afterwards.  Otherwise, there was no lockdown nor talk of pandemic during Swine Flu, not that I recall anyhow.  Many hospitals added hand-sanitizer dispensers at that time as well as people starting carrying their own hand-sanitizers for out of home use while traveling to stores, etc.   

I think it's more likely that the various illnesses you and your ex endured in 2009 were caused by different pathogens than continual re-infection with H1N1. As you know CFS can amplify the symptoms of other illnesses because you have little energy reserve.

People can contract respiratory diseases through non-respiratory vectors, like kissing, but that's not the primary way. Your ex's profession made him your own personal disease vector for all manner of pathogens.

I've several new neighbors with young children. The parents have all had multiple minor illnesses over the last few years, brought home by the kiddies. That's not unusual. They've all been illness-free since the start of COVID-19. Social distancing, masks, and isolation stop far more than COVID-19.

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12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I am sure that there are lots of centrists and wishy-washy liberals who think Bezos is great. So far as real progressives are concerned, they are the enemy.

I think Bezos is doing what's necessary, only not yet enough of it. It would be a better world if "deployment of money and heft to get what they want" weren't required, but as long as SCOTUS holds that money is speech, we can't afford a silence in which the only voice is that of reactionary corruption and decay.

Would we really rather the Kochs and Mercers (and even the lowly Wilbur Ross) have uncountered sway?

The public won't suddenly pay attention to you and me for the incisiveness of our arguments and the clarity of our vision, just because the not-so-Nazi 0.001%rs are silent.

Admittedly that's "the ends justify the means" but when "the means" are dictated by the Court, I don't see how there's much choice. 

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49 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Leftists might not like them but they certainly seem to have no problem supporting them when they further the proper agenda.

As a sidebar, maybe, I'm still giggling a little at the idea that I love Big Pharma, Jeff Bezos, et al. It's the fuzziest of thinking that lumps everyone to the left of Mitt Romney into one big, happy Joe Biden-loving, Google-worshipping family. And it always reminds me of this classic clip, in which Piers Morgan gets taken apart by a young woman whom he seems to have thought was an Obama supporter.

"I'm not pro-Obama. I've been a critic of Obama, I am a critic of the Democratic party. Because I am literally a communist."

Not a communist myself, but I try not to get too insulted when someone confuses me with a "liberal."

 

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13 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I've several new neighbors with young children. The parents have all had multiple minor illnesses over the last few years, brought home by the kiddies. That's not unusual. They've all been illness-free since the start of COVID-19. Social distancing, masks, and isolation stop far more than COVID-19.

That's one of the few nice surprises about this trashcan of a year.  I was just remarking to myself the other day that I have not had my normal snuffly nose this winter, and didn't have my annual bout of laryngitis last fall.  I simply haven't been anywhere to contract them other than my daily run to get a cup of coffee or my  weekly trip to the grocery -- and I have been fully masked and socially distant at those times.   If it weren't for the annoyance of foggy glasses, I'd be tempted to keep on masking after all of this pandemic is history.  At my age, I can stand being labeled as a quirky old fart if the tradeoff is freedom from perpetual coughs and sinus headaches.

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2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

as long as SCOTUS holds that money is speech

I get what you're saying. And the Perfect can indeed be the enemy of the Good sometimes.

I'm not an ideologue, nor a believer in "ideological purity": I think it's possible, and even necessary, to simultaneously work with what we have, and still fight to correct the underlying abuses that necessitate this kind of queasy compromise.

If Bezos, or Soros, or the Kochs for that matter, are helping rather than hindering, I'm not going to suggest refusing their "dirty money." The stakes are too important right now to afford the luxury of purity. Tomorrow the future -- today the struggle.

"To-morrow, perhaps the future. The research on fatigue
And the movements of packers; the gradual exploring of all the
Octaves of radiation;
To-morrow the enlarging of consciousness by diet and breathing.

To-morrow the rediscovery of romantic love,
the photographing of ravens; all the fun under
Liberty's masterful shadow;
To-morrow the hour of the pageant-master and the musician,

The beautiful roar of the chorus under the dome;
To-morrow the exchanging of tips on the breeding of terriers,
The eager election of chairmen
By the sudden forest of hands. But to-day the struggle.

To-morrow for the young the poets exploding like bombs,
The walks by the lake, the weeks of perfect communion;
To-morrow the bicycle races
Through the suburbs on summer evenings. But to-day the struggle."
 

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26 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's one of the few nice surprises about this trashcan of a year.  I was just remarking to myself the other day that I have not had my normal snuffly nose this winter, and didn't have my annual bout of laryngitis last fall.  I simply haven't been anywhere to contract them other than my daily run to get a cup of coffee or my  weekly trip to the grocery -- and I have been fully masked and socially distant at those times.   If it weren't for the annoyance of foggy glasses, I'd be tempted to keep on masking after all of this pandemic is history.  At my age, I can stand being labeled as a quirky old fart if the tradeoff is freedom from perpetual coughs and sinus headaches.

I already told my doctor that I'd probably continue with the mask during "normal" cold and flu season if we ever get past Covid. At least when I have to go to places like the grocery store during busy times. Or if I have to take public transportation. Things like that. Out riding or doing something else outdoors I may not wear one but I will have one with me just in case. That made her happy and that, in turn, gives me more confidence in a young doctor that has only been in practice for 5/6 years. She came up with a workable solution to reducing a dosage that needed to be reduced (if not completely done away with it at all possible) when no other physician had even bothered. 

Now that hubby is working from home, neither of us gets sick as often. That's like pennies from heaven.

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38 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I get what you're saying. And the Perfect can indeed be the enemy of the Good sometimes.

I'm not an ideologue, nor a believer in "ideological purity": I think it's possible, and even necessary, to simultaneously work with what we have, and still fight to correct the underlying abuses that necessitate this kind of queasy compromise.

If Bezos, or Soros, or the Kochs for that matter, are helping rather than hindering, I'm not going to suggest refusing their "dirty money." The stakes are too important right now to afford the luxury of purity. Tomorrow the future -- today the struggle.

"To-morrow, perhaps the future. The research on fatigue
And the movements of packers; the gradual exploring of all the
Octaves of radiation;
To-morrow the enlarging of consciousness by diet and breathing.

To-morrow the rediscovery of romantic love,
the photographing of ravens; all the fun under
Liberty's masterful shadow;
To-morrow the hour of the pageant-master and the musician,

The beautiful roar of the chorus under the dome;
To-morrow the exchanging of tips on the breeding of terriers,
The eager election of chairmen
By the sudden forest of hands. But to-day the struggle.

To-morrow for the young the poets exploding like bombs,
The walks by the lake, the weeks of perfect communion;
To-morrow the bicycle races
Through the suburbs on summer evenings. But to-day the struggle."
 

And if Tomorrow Never Comes?

Or, What if They Gave A War and Nobody Came?

🙃

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2 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

That's like pennies from heaven.

I don't care to start sounding like Pollyanna, but this thought has been rattling around in my head increasingly in recent months.  There's no way to deny that CoVid is a Bad Thing.  My son, DIL, and two granddaughters are on the recovery side of 2+ weeks with it, and it has not been fun.  At the same time, however, they've been spending more time this year -- as I have -- reading, doing long-overdue home projects, discovering new recipes, and learning to be comfortable at a slower pace. That last one is a bit of a surprise. I find myself being more patient with the slow person at the takeout counter, taking more time to listen, and enjoying the fact that I generally have no idea what time it is (or even what day it is, half the time). 

I remember my grandparents, who raised a family during the 1930s, telling me that despite the undeniably bleak economic times, they learned to do many things that they would never have discovered if they hadn't been forced to "make do".  They came through the Depression with confidence and self-reliance.  They saw the odd wisdom in Mark Twain's advice to eat a frog for breakfast, because the rest of the day could only get better.   Those were not Good Times, but there were some good things that people learned from them.  These are not Good Times either, but I find myself in some ways feeling better about myself for having come through them.  AND I don't have a cold or sinus headaches.

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28 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

 Those were not Good Times, but there were some good things that people learned from them.  These are not Good Times either, but I find myself in some ways feeling better about myself for having come through them.  AND I don't have a cold or sinus headaches.

I just finished reading "The Girls Of Slender Means" by Muriel Spark. It's set in London straight after World War 2. She starts off describing the bombed out houses and says "There was absolutely no point in feeling depressed about the scene, it would have been like feeling depressed about the Grand Canyon or some event of the earth outside everyone's scope". That's a bit how I feel about the last year...

I was going to write this earlier but was worried I'd jinx it, but...I also haven't a cold since just before Xmas 2019 😷

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3 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Now that hubby is working from home, neither of us gets sick as often.

Ditto, but I'm on the edge of losing sanity due to us both being here all the time.  Not sure which I prefer, being sick or being sane (somewhat).

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2 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

I don't care to start sounding like Pollyanna, but this thought has been rattling around in my head increasingly in recent months.  There's no way to deny that CoVid is a Bad Thing.  My son, DIL, and two granddaughters are on the recovery side of 2+ weeks with it, and it has not been fun.  At the same time, however, they've been spending more time this year -- as I have -- reading, doing long-overdue home projects, discovering new recipes, and learning to be comfortable at a slower pace. That last one is a bit of a surprise. I find myself being more patient with the slow person at the takeout counter, taking more time to listen, and enjoying the fact that I generally have no idea what time it is (or even what day it is, half the time). 

I remember my grandparents, who raised a family during the 1930s, telling me that despite the undeniably bleak economic times, they learned to do many things that they would never have discovered if they hadn't been forced to "make do".  They came through the Depression with confidence and self-reliance.  They saw the odd wisdom in Mark Twain's advice to eat a frog for breakfast, because the rest of the day could only get better.   Those were not Good Times, but there were some good things that people learned from them.  These are not Good Times either, but I find myself in some ways feeling better about myself for having come through them.  AND I don't have a cold or sinus headaches.

I've lived my whole life at a "slower pace" and only fairly recently gotten hubby to slow down. Not due to Covid but due to the fact that he is finally accepting he can't do everything he did when he was in his 20s and 30s. lol

Everyone should always take time to stop and smell the roses. 🌹

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8 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Ditto, but I'm on the edge of losing sanity due to us both being here all the time.  Not sure which I prefer, being sick or being sane (somewhat).

It's kind of like a roller coaster. It has it's ups and downs (mostly ups) but watch out for the loop the loop. Just hang on to the bar in front of you until the ride comes to a stop. Then, once you get out of the car and away from the ride you can beat him over the head with a nerf bat.

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5 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

As a sidebar, maybe, I'm still giggling a little at the idea that I love Big Pharma, Jeff Bezos, et al. It's the fuzziest of thinking that lumps everyone to the left of Mitt Romney into one big, happy Joe Biden-loving, Google-worshipping family.

Politics is weird like that.  LOL  But, I knew once Biden was in we'd hear the other side throwing a bunch of odd punches after the beating Trump took.  Someone even came on board to call people "liptards" in another thread.  Geeeeeeeesh.  It's so childish.  Just ignore it.  I kept telling people to ignore a lot about Trump because he's an attention bleep and Trump probably has polemia among other things.   Trump was outrageous on purpose.   

Politics aside, we all here are still "the little people".  I knew Biden is suspected for corruption.  A headline over the Summer of 2020 read "The Trumps Are More Corrupt Than The Bidens".  People should really one day just realize we are the little people and politics IS corrupt.  I'm so sick of the mudslinging like that's going to help anything.  I wish we just had a mature government, without party politics, made up of great economic, secular minds to help all people. 

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4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I'm so sick of the mudslinging like that's going to help anything.  I wish we just had a mature government, without party politics, made up of great economic, secular minds to help all people.

I think . . . I hope . . . that everyone wished that.

Which is why it's so important, I think, to keep talking to each other. If we can't leave party behind (and I myself am not a member of any particular party), at least we can engage with each other in a way that, hopefully, ensures we're not all trapped within our own little ideological cages.

And, ultimately, maybe that's how we solve things. Not by the intervention of "great minds," but by floating ideas, accepting criticism, recalibrating our thinking, and finally achieving something like consensus about how to proceed?

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14 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

and finally achieving something like consensus about how to proceed?

I hope so.  America is unraveling because of "parties".   So, I hope the members of our congress realize they are missing the mark as far as consensus, let alone even being able to work together.  I think this party stuff is archaic if not becoming impotent and useless to bare anything worth their salaries.  

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6 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Big Pharma with some accomplices is basically creating a market for its vaccines.

The only way to make a market for vaccines is to infect people. No pathogen = no need for a vaccine.

I'll guess that you did not intend to accuse Big Pharma of creating COVID-19, but rather that you think they are pushing immunity to it as the "only cure".

Unfortunately, they're right. Immunity is the only cure for COVID-19 and there are only two ways to achieve it:

  1. Get infected and survive
  2. Get vaccinated

The Republicans have already cornered the market for #1, leaving only market #2 for Big Pharma.

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9 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:
  • Get infected and survive
  • Get vaccinated

It seems to me the argument is that there exist treatments that make the virus much less severe and much more survivable. Treatments that pharmaceutical companies could promote, which they refuse to, because the profits to be made are much higher than for a vaccine. I am not going to argue one side or the other here, since I do not trust eithet side.

Edited by Talligurl
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