The new Legacy "perky" body is basically a slap in the face

[MelodyClone1]

I mean this is pretty much proof that the people behind it really couldn't care less that their reputation is in the gutters after the TMP fiasco, and is completely ready to do the exact same thing. Long story short they basically slightly tweaked the breast shape of their Legacy body and is now re-releasing it as a complete standalone product. Any other mesh body creator, especially Maitreya, would release it as a free update (and they already did, free 3x HP nipple shapes + bunch of other enhancements in last update) or a very cheap upgrade price like 500L or something, especially considering Legacy already costs 2-3x as any other body, but nope, that'll be another 5000L please if you want "updated breast shape". What's next? Slightly smoother shoulders for another 5000L? 10% thinner waist, another 5000L please. Pregnant shape... oh wait they already have this for another 5000L. 🙄

No I'm not some shill for other body creators. I just find this hilarious and wonder how and why people would defend this.

Edited April 5, 2020 by MelodyClone1

[Paul Hexem]

Sort of like how Belleza has 3 options for each body for half the price?

I thought it was a given that the TMP people were basically terrible cash grabbers?

[Tazzie Tuque]

I agree with all that has been said so far!  When I found out that the Legacy Body was from the same creator as TMP..  I wrote it off instantly!  and yes...

4 hours ago, MelodyClone1 said:

Maitreya, would release it as a free update (and they already did, free 3x HP nipple shapes + bunch of other enhancements in last update)

Kudos to Maitreya for sure..  she thought of just about everything that would be needed in her update and I am certain she put hours of work into it.. and yet a free update!  Cannot beat that!

[Mollymews]

i do know who the TMP / Legacy body designer is

i am not going to name them, but the person way back in the beginning times of SL invented something that changed SL for the better forever.  Every single avatar ever since looks as fabulous as they do, because of this one person gave their invention for free as a gift to the community

in terms of pricing their commercial products. This person charges prices that compensate them at real world rates. They always have

am starting to get a little bit tired of the constant slagging of this person on these forums, from people who demand quality products at little financial cost to themselves

 

[Alwin Alcott]

3 hours ago, Mollymews said:

 

am starting to get a little bit tired of the constant slagging of this person on these forums, from people who demand quality products at little financial cost to themselves

 

it never been about the product but about the greed, the horrible shopping experience and totall lack of support.
and in that line... squeezing peoples wallet till there's nothing left.
Go on.. defend more...it's hilarious.

[Mollymews]

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

squeezing peoples wallet till there's nothing left.

that's the point of the post, crying about the price

don't want to pay the price, buy a different body, there is more than one body available

[Alwin Alcott]

24 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

that's the point of the post, crying about the price

don't want to pay the price, buy a different body, there is more than one body available

there is nothing in the guidelines to forbid people to tell they think products are overpriced. However a strong defence when you " only" know the creator is a bit odd.

[Mollymews]

9 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

there is nothing in the guidelines to forbid people to tell they think products are overpriced. However a strong defence when you " only" know the creator is a bit odd.

is the wording of the posts Alwin

it is ok to say that we think a product is priced to make it unaffordable for us personally

is the way the complaints are phrased which tires me out.  Like what you wrote: "squeezing peoples wallet till there's nothing left."

you are impugning something about this person's character, something which is entirely of your own imagination. This is called slagging

Edited April 6, 2020 by Mollymews
's

[So Whimsy]

It isn't so much about the price as it is about a minor update being pushed out as a wholly new body instead of an update to the existing one. The price only plays a role because of that. Creators should be paid for the work and they can price their products as they like, however any complaints about said price/practises are valid.

 

[Lillith Hapmouche]

3 hours ago, Mollymews said:

it is ok to say that we think a product is priced to make it unaffordable for us personally

How gracious.

It's also perfectly fine to state that you find a price too high for what's being offered in return.

Plus, no-one but that mysterious friend is responsible for their own reputation granted over years.

[Theresa Tennyson]

11 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i do know who the TMP / Legacy body designer is

i am not going to name them, but the person way back in the beginning times of SL invented something that changed SL for the better forever.  Every single avatar ever since looks as fabulous as they do, because of this one person gave their invention for free as a gift to the community

in terms of pricing their commercial products. This person charges prices that compensate them at real world rates. They always have

am starting to get a little bit tired of the constant slagging of this person on these forums, from people who demand quality products at little financial cost to themselves

 

Wilbur and Orville Wright made huge advances in the early days of aviation. Although it's always dubious saying who "invented" something, in the first few years of the 20th century they were the first to come up with a reliably controllable aircraft.

After they did that, they behaved like utter tools - they refused to demonstrate their aircraft without getting contracts first, and they were very aggressive defending patents that they claimed gave them authority over any sort of lateral control of an airplane.

They were so defensive of their patents that the aircraft they made gradually got worse and worse in comparison to their contemporaries because they stuck with their original control scheme because that's what was described in their patents when other builders made major improvements.

Still, they were jumping others over their patents even when planes were needed to fight in World War I. Finally the US government had to intervene over that.

None of what they did later takes away from their original accomplishments.

But their original accomplishments don't excuse what they did later.

[LunaRavencroft]

That's not entirely true. It doesn't cost L$5000 if you get the "upgrades" in a set timeframe. They even say they cut the price in half if you already own the body.. Granted, I won't be buying the pregnancy and perky variations, at least not yet, but it's understandable to a point. Especially when you realize how much each mesh upload costs. For example, i once made a mesh thing that cost almost L$200 to upload. It's understandable why people are upset, but at the same time, it's understandable why TMP doesn't do what Maitreya and the others do. At least, from that aspect. 

Plus, you pay for quality. I've had SLink, Maitreya, and now I have Legacy. SLink was okay, Maitreya was better (though you get shelf-butt if your shape is too far out of the "norm"), and Legacy is by far (for one, if you don't go crazy and turn the slider up to 100 or so and get shelf-butt anyway) in my eyes. Though, on the flip side, L$5000+skin+clothes... your L$ wallet's going to be feeling that one for a while.

[Claireschen Hesten]

18 hours ago, MelodyClone1 said:

considering Legacy already costs 2-3x as any other body, but nope, that'll be another 5000L please if you want "updated breast shape". What's next? Slightly smoother shoulders for another 5000L? 10% thinner waist, another 5000L please. Pregnant shape... oh wait they already have this for another 5000L. 🙄

If what's available on the marketplace is anything to go by the cost of owning a Legacy body has gone up L$500 TMP has long had a shoddy reputation where other body brands give out updates free TMP generously allowed users of the original body to only pay L$2500 for legacy instead of L$5k they've had products up on the marketplace a while i'm pretty sure they've been disabling and creating new listings for their demos to try and escape the negative comments seems strange for the body demo to have only 3 reviews i'm sure i've seen more than 3 linked to a Legacy demo in the past

[Lillith Hapmouche]

24 minutes ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

i'm pretty sure they've been disabling and creating new listings for their demos

Sure, happened, it was discussed before in one of the numerous other pro/con/Hype threads.

  

20 minutes ago, LunaRavencroft said:

Especially when you realize how much each mesh upload costs.

Yeah, because that upload fee has to be paid over and over again for each us... wait.

 

[LunaRavencroft]

Just to clarify, I'm not defending the price in the least. Nor am I defending TMP.

[steeljane42]

5 hours ago, LunaRavencroft said:

Plus, you pay for quality. I've had SLink, Maitreya, and now I have Legacy. SLink was okay, Maitreya was better (though you get shelf-butt if your shape is too far out of the "norm"), and Legacy is by far (for one, if you don't go crazy and turn the slider up to 100 or so and get shelf-butt anyway) in my eyes.

Depends what do you see as a "quality" yourself. It has awful seams all over the body on high altitudes and a few (way smaller ones, though) that are visible even on the ground level. It's been the case since release 1 year ago and still is. it also is the case with this "new" perky body, too, it has ~90% same seams as the original one. Legs, ankles, chest, butt (especially bad for some reason) and some more. It's not visible on all those pretty blogposts and flickr screenshots, of course, but in real time... ugh. I'm still wondering if those rare few people I see in world with this body don't see it or don't care at all. So while the "look/shape" you can achieve with that might look smooth , the actual quality of this product is the worst by far compared to any other "big" body brand out there.

There are rumors it's not really an "original creation", too. While we can only speculate if it's the case, It would explain why this issue is not fixed for so long. For instance 5.0 Maitreya update also had a few of those mesh seams/cracks and 99% of them were fixed within a month.

[Mollymews]

8 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Wilbur and Orville Wright made huge advances in the early days of aviation. Although it's always dubious saying who "invented" something, in the first few years of the 20th century they were the first to come up with a reliably controllable aircraft.

After they did that, they behaved like utter tools - they refused to demonstrate their aircraft without getting contracts first, and they were very aggressive defending patents that they claimed gave them authority over any sort of lateral control of an airplane.

They were so defensive of their patents that the aircraft they made gradually got worse and worse in comparison to their contemporaries because they stuck with their original control scheme because that's what was described in their patents when other builders made major improvements.

Still, they were jumping others over their patents even when planes were needed to fight in World War I. Finally the US government had to intervene over that.

None of what they did later takes away from their original accomplishments.

But their original accomplishments don't excuse what they did later.

this example is no comparison to this designer. The designer is not jumping all over other people thwarting them from making similar products. Linden have not had to intervene

the designer gave a free TMP body as a gift to the community, when none of their body designer contemporaries at that time did. 1000s of people took the gift body and appreciated it in the spirit given

yet here on the forums they get slagged, now again with a false comparative

[Theresa Tennyson]

12 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

this example is no comparison to this designer. The designer is not jumping all over other people thwarting them from making similar products. Linden have not had to intervene

the designer gave a free TMP body as a gift to the community, when none of their body designer contemporaries at that time did. 1000s of people took the gift body and appreciated it in the spirit given

yet here on the forums they get slagged, now again with a false comparative

Theresa Tennyson blinks.

Wait a minute - were you referring to the original TMP body as the "invention that changed SL forever"? I thought you were talking about something that was both original and from the beginnings of Second Life, which the TMP body most certainly wasn't on either property.

Wowmeh had a fully-functional body with layers, alpha cuts and appliers months before the TMP body came out, and I got it when it was L$600 - I think it was less before. It was updated for free several times since then until it was killed off in a highly dubious way by a competitor (and no, I'm not blaming that one on TMP.)

Theresa Tennyson shakes her head.

This is like listening to the Smithsonian Institution saying that Samuel Langley invented the airplane...

 

[Mollymews]

fwiw

the designer of this body is not my friend. If anything they are my enemy, at least philosophically and politically. In the past I have had quite ferocious debates with them on another forum where we completely disagree on pretty much everything in these areas.

but when it comes to things like pricing and how we package and make available our own stuff that we make ourselves, then I am going to be supportive of every designers right to do this as they choose

and if I can't afford the price of a product or dislike the way it is packaged then I don't buy it

also, I don't own any of these bodies. I can't afford them and I make do with a another body that I can afford

[Mollymews]

Just now, Theresa Tennyson said:

Theresa Tennyson blinks.

Wait a minute - were you referring to the original TMP body as the "invention that changed SL forever"? I thought you were talking about something that was both original and from the beginnings of Second Life, which the TMP body most certainly wasn't on either property.

 

no I am not. If I say what it was on here then everyone will know who this person is

i can't do this, as we are not allowed to disclose personal information about a person on Linden services without that person's permission

[Tazzie Tuque]

1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

the designer gave a free TMP body as a gift to the community, when none of their body designer contemporaries at that time did. 1000s of people took the gift body and appreciated it in the spirit given

and then what followed was an exclusive over priced shop where you could get clothing for this "free" body... and for years you could get clothes no where else as they did not share the information needed for other clothing designers to rig for that body so folks were stuck using their weird web based overpriced store, with I might add very little selection.  This is partly how they got a bad rep.  Giving out the free bodies was a ploy to hook folks into having to use their store.  In the end it did not work out too well for them so they released the kits to designers so others could make clothing finally.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Tazzie Tuque

[Mollymews]

21 minutes ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

and then what followed was an exclusive over priced shop where you could get clothing for this "free" body... and for years you could get clothes no where else as they did not share the information needed for other clothing designers to rig for that body so folks were stuck using their weird web based overpriced store, with I might add very little selection.  This is partly how they got a bad rep.  Giving out the free bodies was a ploy to hook folks into having to use their store.  In the end it did not work out too well for them so they released the kits to designers so others could make clothing finally.

this gets to where you and I differ

to me these are choices that a designer makes for themselves. It is their choice. As it should always be. That a person's choices might not work out for them in the market, is neither here nor there in terms of their right to make these choices

also, as you point out the designer has learned from their previous market experience, and have made a Legacy developer's kit available. From my own pov it is pretty pricey. But is the price, and people who make stuff for avatars can pay it or not as they choose

[LunaRavencroft]

On 4/6/2020 at 3:41 PM, steeljane42 said:

Depends what do you see as a "quality" yourself. It has awful seams all over the body on high altitudes and a few (way smaller ones, though) that are visible even on the ground level. It's been the case since release 1 year ago and still is. it also is the case with this "new" perky body, too, it has ~90% same seams as the original one. Legs, ankles, chest, butt (especially bad for some reason) and some more. It's not visible on all those pretty blogposts and flickr screenshots, of course, but in real time... ugh. I'm still wondering if those rare few people I see in world with this body don't see it or don't care at all. So while the "look/shape" you can achieve with that might look smooth , the actual quality of this product is the worst by far compared to any other "big" body brand out there.

There are rumors it's not really an "original creation", too. While we can only speculate if it's the case, It would explain why this issue is not fixed for so long. For instance 5.0 Maitreya update also had a few of those mesh seams/cracks and 99% of them were fixed within a month.

Interesting. I've never seen seams, except when deforming or when my hands and feet sometimes decide to be a random color.

[MaxMare]

I tried it on and it is correct, the only thing different is breast shape, if there is any other difference on the body it is too subtle to notice, I actually took a pic of both bodies, same skin, same shape, same pose, superimposed those 2 and yep, identical sans breasts... Anyways, I don`t have a problem with them releasing "new" body, they did it already with pregnancy.. What I do have a problem with is the fact they released 2 more bodies INSTEAD of addressing issues of the first one and I`m talking about terrible neck seam...I tried every single mesh head on the market, I tested it with skins made by some of the best, detail oriented skin makers (i.e. YSYS, Skinnery, Amara beauty, Session) and seam was there, just for the record every other body and head on the market, well at least major players, managed to achieve seamless connection and mentioned skin makers have made seamless skins no matter what your combination of meshes might be..They sent an update recently, but the seam is still there...I asked in official group how to fix the seam and they suggested turning Advanced Lighting OFF!

I do believe creators are entitled to ask any price they want or release any number of similar products.....that said, they definitely are responsible for providing promised updates and support cause many ppl buy products based on that promise of follow up fixes and on-going support. Most brands (especially big ones) in SL keep on updating their products within reasonable time frame and offering said updates fee of charge (bento, BoM), Legacy should do the same! 

I applaud them on impeccable PR campaign, if only they put half the effort in fixing what needs to be fixed, we`d have a winner as the body is really beautiful 

@Mollymews you keep defending their right to run business as they please and I agree, but at the same time, we/customers/potential customers have the right to disagree with their policy, question their motives, complain about price and so on...that`s how freedom works

[Mollymews]

1 hour ago, MaxMare said:

@Mollymews you keep defending their right to run business as they please and I agree, but at the same time, we/customers/potential customers have the right to disagree with their policy, question their motives, complain about price and so on...that`s how freedom works

that is how discourse works. As does responding when people make statements assigning motive to another person, when those statements are assertions