Price Reduction for land ?

[Pamela Galli]

1 minute ago, BettyBigguns said:

$179 for a reduced prim / avatar limit region you mean.

No. They are full Sims.  I did the buy down a few years ago, on top of the recent price reduction.

[So Whimsy]

8 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

Its gathered data.. stats can be personal as well as global. It doesn't have to apply those who aren't going to use it, or want to use it. But it figures into how i run things as an actual numerical stat. and i'm surprised that to this day I am hearing people are missing unique places to visit. That very much accounts for something, especially when you hear it so much.

So your "statistic" is that 100% of renters said that tier is too high?

Edited April 2, 2020 by Syn Anatine

[Alwin Alcott]

4 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

$179 for a reduced prim / avatar limit region you mean.

you must have missed some changes quite some time ago.

[BettyBigguns]

So you, say, carve a notch on a stick every time someone says tier is too high, and that’s your data?"

 

That's very not what I said... I do carve that notch when an RPer says that they rarely find a nice sim to come and play in. That's the stat.. now you are making up new stats for me huh?

[BettyBigguns]

Actually no.. that legacy price is no longer available when you get a sim currently.

[Beth Macbain]

So... it's based on your renters and it's an RP region. 

It's not only anecdotal but also a very small subset of specialized residents who are interested in whatever type of RP it is you offer.

You're batting zero here, Betty. 

[Theresa Tennyson]

15 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

$179 for a reduced prim / avatar limit region you mean.

Nope - that's for a 15,000 land-impact full region that was bought down. Exactly the same region that used to go for $295 a month and is now $229 per month.

ETA - actually it's now 20,000, or better than it was.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Theresa Tennyson

[Pamela Galli]

1 minute ago, BettyBigguns said:

Actually no.. that legacy price is no longer available when you get a sim currently.

My point is they offered a buy down, $600 per region. Then just as I was going to have to buy a fifth region for the prims, they cut prices across the board and added a bunch more prims, so I didn’t need to buy a fifth region. They have been pretty accommodating.

[Skell Dagger]

28 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

Actually no.. it's literally a statistic.

I spent an entire semester studying statistics, and that is not how it works. Your dataset of "people whom I rent to on my once half-region/now whole region" cannot be expanded to extrapolate quantifiable data for the entirety of Second Life, as you appear to claim below in your generic "biggest complaint coming from SL residents" statement:

1 hour ago, BettyBigguns said:

That's the biggest complaint coming form SL residents.

Incidentally: where are your numbers? You claim that statistics can be personal as well as global -

17 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

Its gathered data.. stats can be personal as well as global.

- but (once again) cf. above where you appear to suggest that "nowhere to go" is the "biggest complaint from SL residents".

What you mean is: "It's the biggest complaint coming from the limited subset of residents I have access to on my rental region." That is the only quantifiable data that you have access to, and I doubt very much that Linden Lab will reduce tier for everyone based on that.

[LittleMe Jewell]

36 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

Actually no.. it's literally a statistic.

 

30 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

Observation over 5 years of being a sim owner. It's not a stat for you, it's very much a stat for me, as I pay attention to RPer's looking for sims to visit and use. It figured into my decision to stay open and to constantly buy upgrades to keep my sim fresh.

 

Definition of Statistics:

 

So, SHOW THE DATA

 

[BettyBigguns]

"So you, say, carve a notch on a stick every time someone says tier is too high, and that’s your data?"

That's not even close to what I said... I carve a notch on a stick when an RP'er mentions that they don't fine very many nice looking and unique sims to play on.

How you mistook me saying that had to do with sim cost is beyond me.

[Skell Dagger]

Also, this?

48 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

You must not get out much, except to maybe to stores.

Belittling someone by suggesting that all they do is shop is not the most effective and convincing method of putting your point across.

[Lindal Kidd]

13 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

"So you, say, carve a notch on a stick every time someone says tier is too high, and that’s your data?"

That's not even close to what I said... I carve a notch on a stick when an RP'er mentions that they don't fine very many nice looking and unique sims to play on.

How you mistook me saying that had to do with sim cost is beyond me.

But...but...isn't your whole POST about land cost?  You titled it, "Price Reduction for Land".

[LittleMe Jewell]

11 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

1 hour ago, BettyBigguns said:

You must not get out much, except to maybe to stores.

Belittling someone by suggesting that all they do is shop is not the most effective and convincing method of putting your point across.

As we all know, it is the route people take when they don't really have valid factual arguments. 

[BettyBigguns]

Your comment isn't even close to what i said... please try again though.

 

That's not even close to what I said... I carve a notch on a stick when an RP'er mentions that they don't fine very many nice looking and unique sims to play on.

How you mistook me saying that had to do with sim cost is beyond me.

[Sassy Kenin]

35 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

... please try again though.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Shansi Kenin

[Rolig Loon]

1 hour ago, BettyBigguns said:

$179 for a reduced prim / avatar limit region you mean.

No.  My prim limit and avatar limit on a private estate did not decrease when they offered the lower rate.  If I wanted it, I could pay an extra fee to increase the L.I. allowance to 30,000, but I have not chosen to do that. My L.I. Allowance is 20,000 (up from the previous 15,000), as it is on any private region.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Rolig Loon
Clarity

[Rolig Loon]

1 hour ago, BettyBigguns said:

That's not even close to what I said... I carve a notch on a stick when an RP'er mentions that they don't fine very many nice looking and unique sims to play on.

That's still a small and very biased sample, gathered from residents interested in role playing and tabulated informally by one person on her own corner of SL. It's what statisticians refer to as anecdotal data.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

Okay let me chim in here, I own a webhosting company and still have physical hardware presence in data centers, with a few servers running on aws too.

 

my costs

Cabinet 300 usd monthly rental

hardware, I have 6 dell poweredge-r740 sitting in the rack right now.   that's about 9k worth of hardware.

I have to pay for power, so that's 0.0014 center per kwh.  I pay close to 300 usd a month in power too.

BackHaul from the provider supplying the cabinet with internets, using their switch, is 150 a month for unmetered (which just changed, so no more 50 usd over each month)

Then I am paying for hands on support once a month for the servers,  the data center handles that and helps with reboots and such if I need it or to install updates with putting a drive or usb thumb drive into the physical machines.  that's 75 a month.

 

SO I have 1500 base clients, and another 1500 on aws,  aws it's weird pricing and not a flat fee, so I pay I think 200 a monthish?  maybe more, I have to check, it comes out of the pay I make on the physical side,    now with 1500 clients, some with many many multiple sites,  I bring in a little over 1200 usd a month.

SO I'm putting out 725+ usd a month and only bringing in 1200 usd.   so 475 a month,  so that's not including local and state fee's and the 2 people I employee 1 day a week to handle tickets,  I'm way into the negative,  so if I cut prices, what would happen to me?  I would be shelling out more money from my own pocket to survive,  at that rate I would maybe have a month at the most I could afford it?  maybe?  

Thing is people really need to understand if we put the platform in jeopardy with cutting massive land costs,  we will lose SL as we know it. 

 

(I'll have to check my maths with my actual bills when I get home)

 

 

 

 

 

[Alwin Alcott]

10 hours ago, BettyBigguns said:

"So you, say, carve a notch on a stick every time someone says tier is too high, and that’s your data?"

That's not even close to what I said... I carve a notch on a stick when an RP'er mentions that they don't fine very many nice looking and unique sims to play on.

How you mistook me saying that had to do with sim cost is beyond me.

please try to quote as this forum provides, posts get clearer to read

[Nalates Urriah]

10 hours ago, BettyBigguns said:

Your comment isn't even close to what i said... please try again though.

 

That's not even close to what I said... I carve a notch on a stick when an RP'er mentions that they don't fine very many nice looking and unique sims to play on.

How you mistook me saying that had to do with sim cost is beyond me.

Isn't that a comment on their ability to find places they like rather than on SL?

Tracking opinions is silly. I mean everyone KNEW Hillary was going to win...

[Drayke Newall]

Everyone must keep in mind that LL have for YEARS, and are even still, loosing enormous amounts of money (tier wise) through their lack of converting abandoned land to revenue. I haven't been on a mainland parcel search for a while, however did late last year and unless things have drastically changed (bet they haven't) Governor Linden is sitting on the biggest waste of resources and potential revenue ever.

For years there has been swathes of land abandoned of which their auction solution, even the new one (which was just a lie and all they did was update the webpage) just isn't enough to turn it around (most don't even know it exists). They could of course (and should) just make it so that as soon as land is abandoned it becomes for sale instantly and sold by Governor Linden (LL taking the profit of the sale) in world and highlighted on the map like other land for sale. They could even have a bid system on the land in the right click buy menu itself that notifies users that have bid if they have been outbid via IM). Alas, if they haven't incorporated that method (and still gone with the bad out of world auction system) after this amount of time I doubt they even know how to or perhaps a matter of lack of foresight and ingenuity.  

Hell, they could (and should) even have it that as soon as you decide to not have a mainland parcel any more users cant sell it to others but have to abandon it to Governor Linden. Just like a real life house/land rental system. This would mean that, not only will prices be more reasonable, (rather than $200-$1000USD just to BUY a parcel from a user in a popular area like Blake Sea not including your monthly tier) but also give LL a much needed additional revenue source that will allow them to LOWER tier across the board!

That all said and therefore, whilst they refuse to lower tier prices claiming woe is me, we cant lower because we need to have tier high due to cover hardware costs etc, they are sitting on empty un-owned land whereby it isn't making any money to cover the running cost or provide a profit and also not looking at the potential other revenue stream sticking out at them for all to see except LL.

For example lets say that they have had on average 200 sims (mainland is around 6-7000 sims - including the numerous sandboxes that are usually empty) worth of land abandoned and not rented per year. That is a total loss of $429,600 USD per year in tier.

In another example, lets say on average out of the (approximately but probably more) 3000 rentable sims on mainland of which, say are divided into quarter sims (generous considering the amount of parcels under that on mainland), they see half of those available parcels transfer hands twice every year, they could sell them after abandonment/premium cancelation etc. (rather than user to user) direct to users for $20US or 5000L$ (in addition to tier) they would make an additional approx.: $240,000 US/year. (possibly more if they have inworld auctions).

So in total, by providing a better inworld land auction/buy system that will show to more users than their flawed hardly known web auction and potentially selling all abandoned land within a matter of days along with converting the system so users can no longer sell RENTED FROM LL land to users (instead abandoning back to LL for them to sell), per year they could, using the above figures (that are completely approximate), make an additional $669,600 US (tier per month of all abandoned land + revenue by land sale).

So whilst many say its an impossibility to reduce tier cause LL will loose to much money, I say it is a pure example of robbing Peter to pay Paul all the while having their head in the sand thinking everything is fine by lacking ingenuity of how to make money elsewhere from areas that aren't making enough money (apart from increasing user fees) to reduce tier.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[Mollymews]

30 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

They [ Linden ] could of course (and should) just make it so that as soon as land is abandoned it becomes for sale instantly and sold by Governor Linden (LL taking the profit of the sale) in world and highlighted on the map like other land for sale.

it did used to be that way. Then sometime in 2010 as I remember, it could have been a bit early, but after Zindra opened in 2009, Linden stopped putting mainland parcels automatically to sale. The stopping had I think, more to do with the subsequent (depressing) explosion of yellow on the World Map following Zindra than anything else.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Mollymews
automatically to

[Drayke Newall]

5 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

it did used to be that way. Then sometime in 2010 as I remember, it could have been a bit early, but after Zindra opened in 2009, Linden stopped putting mainland parcels directly to sale. the stopping had I think, more to do with the subsequent (depressing) explosion of yellow on the World Map following Zindra than anything else.

Hmm news to me. As far as I can remember (been in SL for quite a while) it has always been that once abandoned it was added to the auction pool and stayed abandoned until it came up for auction on the LL auction web page. I have never seen mainland directly for sale from Governor Linden in world unless the user sent a support ticket requesting to buy it.

It is due to this system they have used that mainland is always empty looking even prior to Zindra.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[Mollymews]

6 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Hmm news to me. As far as I can remember (been in SL for quite a while) it has always been that once abandoned it was added to the auction pool and stayed abandoned until it came up for auction on the LL auction web page. I have never seen mainland directly for sale from Governor Linden in world unless the user sent a support ticket requesting to buy it.

It is due to this system they have used that mainland is always empty looking even prior to Zindra.

it used to be that only some land would go to auction. Color purple. The rest would automatically go for sale to Anyone at L$4 a sqm. Color Yellow. Then Linden changed it to L$1 a sqm and file a ticket for land not set aside for auction