Price Reduction for land ?

[BettyBigguns]

So, I can understand why LL did a fast reduction for education, but I can't understand why this was not done for sim owners as well. Because SL is now probably about 30 out from losing a number of sims as people are either facing layoffs, unpaid furloughs, or reduced income in general as we make our way though this global crisis. So LL... will you reduce costs for everyone until this is over ? Especially since about a decade ago you guys did double the land prices, causing a huge die off in sims.

[LittleMe Jewell]

First off - you are not necessarily talking to LL here.  This is a Resident to Resident forum and LL only pops in sometimes to browse things.

LL has fixed costs also.  How are they going to pay for those if they discount all land costs for everyone in SL?  That would just make them the next company to lay off all of their employees and go under.

Owning land in SL is not a requirement in RL.  It is, for most, a luxury / recreational expense.  If your RL situation does not allow you to spend much money in SL, then you should properly prioritize RL over SL and decrease your SL expense.  That is for you to do - not for LL to give you a handout.

Edited April 2, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

@BettyBigguns, so it's either of the following?

   1. Leave land prices as they are and have less people rent them.

   2. Keep more tenants but earn less from lower rent.

What proof do you have that the 1st is worse than the 2nd? Or are you just making an unsubstantiated suggestion because you personally want to pay less?

Hey, I want to pay less too. Linden Labs, gimme money now!

Edited April 2, 2020 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Rhonda Huntress]

5 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

 1. Leave land prices as they are and have less people rent them.

   2. Keep more tenants but earn less from lower rent.

And you can bet that is a question in Linden business meetings every day.  Where is the line with the best return for the least cost?  If they lower costs, what happens in two months when they have to raise them again?  Can you imagine the outcry? 

It's not an easy choice and I don't envy them for their position especially considering they have not yet recovered from the loss of Sansar and how that effected the company.

Betty, I'm all for free tier or lowered prices but I think the long term life of SL is going to be chosen over the short term gain.  Without hard financial data possessed by Linden Lab, we can only guess at what will happen.  My guess is shutting down servers and thus reducing their costs as income drops in order to maintain operations at a lowered prescense.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 minute ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

My guess is shutting down servers and thus reducing their costs as income drops in order to maintain operations at a lowered prescense.

And thus why they are currently pushing very hard on finishing up their 'move to the cloud' project.  

[BettyBigguns]

It's actually not a GIMME MONEY NOW question... as Rhonda pointed out.. you bet they are going over this daily. But bear in mind I was here when they doubled the land prices overnight, even that suggests that they can reduce prices until the crisis passes to keep the grid intact. It never recovered from the 2008 housing crash, so are they prepared to stay full price and knock themselves down by what.. another 1/4 to 1/3 land renters. They essentially lost about 50% of operating sims in the wake of the 2008 crash. They do probably need to plan some sort of action before they price themselves completely out of business.

[Pamela Galli]

My business has picked up considerably since lockdown. And it may be that lockdown is going to last a lot longer than we wish. If so, LL could be well positioned. So it would not make sense for them to cut prices, esp since they just recently did so.

[Marianne Little]

I have said it before, I do not know if it is worth repeating. We want Linden lab to go well, and for that, they need income and residents. Would it not be smart to lower premium for, let us say a quarter? There are people who think premium is too expensive, but when it's 50% off, they think it's a good deal.

Lower premium is not money LL lose. It is residents that would not sign up for full price.

If LL reduce land tier, they lose money.

LL has posted that they can see an increase in people logging in from countries, as they go in lock-down. It is something to do when we can't go out, and pubs, gym, yoga and hairdressers has closed.

When I think of what it costs to go out in RL, SL is cheap.

Premium is giving people a reason to log in again, and it is good for residents business too. Since premium accounts will look for land, and things trelated to land, like furniture and decor. It will be money for land owners that rent out. It will also be more interest for Linden Homes. Plus that many start to buy clothes and hair, maybe mesh bodies too. All in SL will benefit from residents who keep coming back. Boredom - nothing to do in RL - I have paid Premium for SL, let us see what's happening there now.

Those who have private land and struggle with tier, can pick up their stuff from half of it and rent it out.

[BettyBigguns]

"Those who have private land and struggle with tier, can pick up their stuff from half of it and rent it out."

 

I.E. they abandon being sim owners and just become landlords. That's the biggest complaint coming form SL residents.. they no longer have sims of interest to visit.

[Beth Macbain]

24 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

I.E. they abandon being sim region owners and just become landlords. That's the biggest complaint coming form SL residents.. they no longer have sims regions of interest to visit.

FTFY

...sorry, y'all... couldn't resist... don't beat me up...

Also your allegation of "biggest complaint" is anecdotal at best. 

I beg LL to not lower prices to appease a few people when the fast majority of us (yes, also anecdotal) aren't having an issue with it. Hell, I just upped another alt to premium yesterday so I could play with the new LH cabins. 

Ebbe, in last week's Lab Gab, said for individuals who may be having trouble paying due to COVID to contact them directly. They are willing to work with people on a one-on-one basis - it would be silly to cut the price for everyone when not everyone is being financially affected. And this is not the way to directly contact them. Call support or open a ticket.

Not only am I still getting my regular paychecks, I'm spending less by never leaving my home, AND I'm going to be getting at least one big stimulus check. I'm going to come out ahead. I know I'm not the only one. 

[BettyBigguns]

"Also your allegation of "biggest complaint" is anecdotal at best. "

I hear this all the time as a sim owner, for the last 5 years that I have had a sim open.

the most repeated thing i hear is " You don't see sims like this anymore" which was still sort of shocking after i heard that yet again less than two weeks after I moved from my old 1/2 sim location to a new full sim and rebuilt it a new variation from scratch. You must not get out much, except to maybe to stores.

[Beth Macbain]

1 minute ago, BettyBigguns said:

I hear this all the time as a sim owner, for the last 5 years that I have had a sim open.

That is still anecdotal. 

1 minute ago, BettyBigguns said:

You must not get out much, except to maybe to stores.

Whether I do or not doesn't change the fact that your claims are anecdotal. 

[BettyBigguns]

Actually no.. it's literally a statistic.

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Pamela Galli said:

My business has picked up considerably since lockdown. And it may be that lockdown is going to last a lot longer than we wish. If so, LL could be well positioned. So it would not make sense for them to cut prices, esp since they just recently did so.

Mine is also doing well even though I am no longer working or even paying attention to what I sell.  Since I haven't taken any money out since last August the "money" part of the equation is definitely not important.  Still I see my balance rise substantially (not like the glory days but still more than I would have expected).   

 

I definitely agree that land is NOT necessary in SL and there are plots and homes available from 25 lindens a week which almost anyone could pay  if they can afford a computer to run SL.   I downgraded from a full sim to a 4096 about the time the virus first showed up. It wasn't about money. I just figured that I didn't really NEED that sim and I haven't regretted that move. 

 

I don't think they should cut prices either.  It is a difficult time for businesses now. MANY MANY MANY will not make it through this pandemic era.  Tons of brick and mortar stores will never open again.  But, I also foresee a positive change (eventually) even though it will be difficult and take time.  As has been said, as citizens most of us want SL to survive -- that is the most important thing.   

 

[So Whimsy]

Just now, BettyBigguns said:

Actually no.. it's literally a statistic.

It's literally not.

[Chic Aeon]

1 minute ago, BettyBigguns said:

Actually no.. it's literally a statistic.

Please SOURCE YOUR STATISTIC.

 

 

[Pamela Galli]

12 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

"Also your allegation of "biggest complaint" is anecdotal at best. "

I hear this all the time as a sim owner, for the last 5 years that I have had a sim open.

the most repeated thing i hear is " You don't see sims like this anymore" which was still sort of shocking after i heard that yet again less than two weeks after I moved from my old 1/2 sim location to a new full sim and rebuilt it a new variation from scratch. You must not get out much, except to maybe to stores.

That’s your literal statistic?  I don’t think either word means what you think it does.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Pamela Galli

[BettyBigguns]

Observation over 5 years of being a sim owner. It's not a stat for you, it's very much a stat for me, as I pay attention to RPer's looking for sims to visit and use. It figured into my decision to stay open and to constantly buy upgrades to keep my sim fresh.

[So Whimsy]

1 minute ago, BettyBigguns said:

Observation over 5 years of being a sim owner. It's not a stat for you, it's very much a stat for me, as I pay attention to RPer's looking for sims to visit and use. It figured into my decision to stay open and to constantly buy upgrades to keep my sim fresh.

That's not how statistics work. It's a biased opinion at best.

[Lindal Kidd]

2 hours ago, BettyBigguns said:

...Especially since about a decade ago you guys did double the land prices, causing a huge die off in sims.

Um, no.  I too was here a decade ago, and I was a land owner too.  The one thing they did in the way of a price hike was to increase the cost of Homestead regions.  Aside from that, LL has not increased land prices at least since I have been here (May 2007).  In fact, in the past three years they have:

• Increased the prim capacity of land by 50% (that's an effective price cut, though not directly in $ terms)
• Decreased the cost to purchase private regions, from $1,000 to $349 for a full region, and comparable cuts for Homestead regions
• Decreased monthly fees for private regions and tier for Mainland by about 10 - 15%.

They've offset these cuts with increases in the cost of Premium memberships, and by raising fees charged to purchase, sell, and cash out $L.

The "2008 crash" that you're referring to is more properly called a "land glut".  During this period, LL took several actions.

• They created the Adult continent of Zindra and moved all the adult activity there.  This resulted in a lot of empty, abandoned Mainland elsewhere.
• They created the Nautilus continent
• They created Bay City
• They initially offered Homestead regions at too low a price, causing a huge number of new private Homestead regions to appear.

All of this gave the grid a lot more land than there were Residents who wanted it.  In an attempt to re-balance, they increased the costs of Homestead regions.  This caused a lot of private regions to go away, but it was still not until about 2018 that the land market finally began to re-balance itself.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Lindal Kidd

[Pamela Galli]

3 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

Observation over 5 years of being a sim owner. It's not a stat for you, it's very much a stat for me

That’s the definition of anecdotal. There are no stats for you and stats for me.

[BettyBigguns]

Its gathered data.. stats can be personal as well as global. It doesn't have to apply those who aren't going to use it, or want to use it. But it figures into how i run things as an actual numerical stat. and i'm surprised that to this day I am hearing people are missing unique places to visit. That very much accounts for something, especially when you hear it so much.

[Pamela Galli]

3 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Um, no.  I too was here a decade ago, and I was a land owner too.  The one thing they did in the way of a price hike was to increase the cost of Homestead regions.  Aside from that, LL has not increased land prices at least since I have been here (May 2007).  In fact, in the past three years they have:

• Increased the prim capacity of land by 50% (that's an effective price cut, though not directly in $ terms)
• Decreased the cost to purchase private regions, from $1,000 to $349 for a full region, and comparable cuts for Homestead regions
• Decreased monthly fees for private regions and tier for Mainland by about 10 - 15%.

They've offset these cuts with increases in the cost of Premium memberships, and by raising fees charged to purchase, sell, and cash out $L.

Also, when I bought my first region eleven or so years ago, I seem to recall it cost $1600 usd. Can that be right? A few years ago i was paying  $295 per region, now $179.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Pamela Galli

[BettyBigguns]

$179 for a reduced prim / avatar limit region you mean.

[Pamela Galli]

4 minutes ago, BettyBigguns said:

Its gathered data.. stats can be personal as well as global. It doesn't have to apply those who aren't going to use it, or want to use it. But it figures into how i run things as an actual numerical stat. and i'm surprised that to this day I am hearing people are missing unique places to visit. That very much accounts for something, especially when you hear it so much.

So you, say, carve a notch on a stick every time someone says tier is too high, and that’s your data?