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MelodicRain

Unrigged accessories that are no mod, why?

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Posted (edited)

No I'm not talking about RP weapons, gift cards or anything else with sensitive scripts. I'm talking about something like a necklace, bracelet, or decorative weapon. What is the point of making these no mod, just to annoy your customers? It means you can't resize it, you can't tint, you can't adjust specular settings, and you can't add/remove poses. I just bought a really good looking weapon fatpack today (no combat scripts), and for some reason the creator decided to make it no mod, so I can't even swap out the buggy pose script it uses with my own that actually works, making it almost completely useless. Money well spent.

If we bought something, especially the fatpack, just let us edit it. SL residents are not that dumb, we know our way around the edit menu. Stop making every last thing in SL no mod (I've even seen notecards that are no mod/no trans... which is completely pointless). Creators who do let us edit their holy creations are appreciated of course.

Edited by MelodicRain
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Posted (edited)

no-mod reduces the amount of service calls from customers.  Most creatives work from their kitchen tables at home and have limited time to devote to SL. When time is limited, people often prefer to apply this toward making stuff.  So the decision to release their stuff as no-mod

this said, I have has some success with getting a creator to give me a modify version. And when so then I pay for it again, some times more than the list price.  Like recently I bought a kitty collar for 50L. Was no-modify.  Explain to the creator how I really liked its style, shape and texturing, but I couldn't wear it because it didn't fit properly. That I would be happy to pay more if was possible to get

next day I log in and the creator had sent me a mod copy and never asked for anything. So I sent her 200L just because 250L is about right for a mod collar of this style. Creator just say thank you! and I say thank you! and we were done

 

 

Edited by Mollymews
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Posted (edited)

I  agree, that some accessories in particular really do need to be mod in order to be able to make them fit right..  but having said that, there is a work around that by adding a resize script, I don't mean the old resize the whole thing at once scripts.. There are some great scripts out there that allow you to resize each direction independently of the rest and with a little patience anyone can use those and they work and since no mod items are often copy,  someone can resize different items and save a copy in that size, and then make a copy and resize it differently  if they need to for another body or what ever.  Hats are a perfect example of that.  So I cannot understand why they are not used more often. As for things like rigged mesh clothing items, well you can not resize those no matter what the permissions are the only thing one could do with mod rights for things like that is mess with the textures and/or colours or both, which is exactly why the designer made them no mod.  No designer wants to see their work totally messed up with their name on it as creator.  They have taken great care to texture their creations, to have them look as they feel works best, and in many cases a hud is offered with texture and or colour options giving people choices.  I can totally respect that.

Edited by Tazzie Tuque
forgot something
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25 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Rigged accessories that are no-mod, why?

I believe I answered that in my post above.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

I believe I answered that in my post above.

It was a parody of the title of this thread. I was poking fun at the limited scope of the question.

I don't respect the original creator's "vision" on a platform like SL. Not when that vision includes shoving unnecessary scripts into the things I want to wear, or preventing me from adding my own functionality, or when the mesh comes straight out of Marvelous Designer and/or isn't optimized at all, or when the textures are obvious bakes and/or way too many or it's all 1024s.

People will look at avatars with uniquely customized accessories and say "that's awesome, where do I get something like that" but nobody looks at the creator of "bad items" and goes "I'll make a mental note to never buy from this creator because the texture on this person looks wonky." That kind of anti-consumer paranoia needs to stop. Imagine if you bought a pair of jeans IRL but it'd be a criminal offense to cut some holes in them. Imagine if you bought a phone but weren't allowed to put a protective phone-case on it with cute stickers on the back.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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This issue comes up regularly, and the only real answer is because LL allows it.  Whether it's to prevent hideous retexturing, breakage requiring customer support, or whatever other reason people have, LL say we can sell no-mod and that's the end of it.  By all means ask for a modify version, and maybe the creator will and maybe they won't.  There are demos so you know what you're getting, and certainly on marketplace the permissions are clearly shown.  Caveat emptor; if you want mod buy mod.

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That's true, @Pixieplumb Flanagan , but LL *always* allowed it and for years most attachments - be they hats, bows, jewelry, hair, "euphemistic toys" or whatever had mod perm. Everything I sold was...

What caused the mass change to creators almost never offering mod perm was the copybot debacle. There were folks chicken-littleing all over every online forum spreading the misinformation that making your stuff no-mod made it less rippable. Those of us that actually knew how it worked were saying, at that time, "Please don't do this. It inconveniences your legit customers and it actually makes no difference to the security of your textures or sculpts" (meshes weren't a thing then) - But suddenly finding a mod-perm hair that you could combine with a hat from another vendor and just "snip off" (unlink and delete) the parts that clipped through the hat became as rare as hen's teeth.

The reasons you cite are a consideration, but they ALWAYS were, and yet for years folks were still selling mostly mod perm. They only chose to go no-mod when they believed the Bravo Sierra. And then new creators joined and were told "you have to make it no-mod" and it has become an article of faith. Not based in any rationality, just a taboo that nobody in the tribe will dare to violate.

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On 3/29/2020 at 3:22 AM, Tazzie Tuque said:

No designer wants to see their work totally messed up with their name on it as creator.  They have taken great care to texture their creations, to have them look as they feel works best, and in many cases a hud is offered with texture and or colour options giving people choices.

I met a designer some years back. Had a nice pair of glasses. No modify. Decent textures, okay sculpts. Had a script in every prim for resize (even after we got SetLinkParams), a script for recolor in every prim, a script for retexture in every prim, and a fourth one in the root that I had no idea what it did. Probably related to the demo or some sort of copy protections?

I asked if I'd be able to get a mod version, so I could remove all those scripts and put in my own animation script.

His reply? "Nobody in SL can texture or script on my level, you'll just make it worse".

Moral of the story? If you have a scripted object you're worried modifications will break, that's one reason to make it no mod. If you think your creations are perfect and need to be preserved? You're probably the reason SL is laggy and you should quit SL. And probably set your PC on fire.

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On 3/29/2020 at 3:22 AM, Tazzie Tuque said:

No designer wants to see their work totally messed up with their name on it as creator.  They have taken great care to texture their creations, to have them look as they feel works best, and in many cases a hud is offered with texture and or colour options giving people choices.  I can totally respect that.

Apparently there are creators that feel their creations look best with random parts made full-bright, textures with unnecessary alpha channels that make parts vanish under my hair, or have specular texture and gloss settings that make a knit cotton top look like it was sprayed with polyurethane varnish.

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On 3/29/2020 at 8:22 AM, Tazzie Tuque said:

No designer wants to see their work totally messed up with their name on it as creator.  They have taken great care to texture their creations, to have them look as they feel works best, and in many cases a hud is offered with texture and or colour options giving people choices.  I can totally respect that.

I don't "respect that" one bit. It's purest arrogance to think that your customers will actually be wandering around in a look that they don't want to be wearing. If they "mess it up" they'll leave it in their inventory (or delete it) and wear one that is still carrying one of your textures. Doubly arrogant and codescending to think that "oh but you have a color hud and a resize script" somehow mitigates it.

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On 3/31/2020 at 5:36 PM, Da5id Weatherwax said:

I don't "respect that" one bit. It's purest arrogance to think that your customers will actually be wandering around in a look that they don't want to be wearing. If they "mess it up" they'll leave it in their inventory (or delete it) and wear one that is still carrying one of your textures. Doubly arrogant and codescending to think that "oh but you have a color hud and a resize script" somehow mitigates it.

Well ... I understand your point, but SL is just a micro cosmos of RL ... and in RL there are also Manufacturers who want to protect their products against any changes ... and yes, its annoying, if you want to repair/upgrade a product (maybe  a computer etc.) and than realizing that it is sealed and protected against unboxing. BUT the point is: They are the right owners of the products and its their decision to do or not ... as it is your decision to buy it or not. Same here in SL. If you like to have the full freedom to change your clothes/Furniture the way you like, i would recommend to buy the stuff from Manufacturers who are specialized in selling it as Full Perm .... and there are a lot of Full perm sellers in SL and on Marketplace.

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10 minutes ago, VanillaLovelace said:

Well ... I understand your point, but SL is just a micro cosmos of RL ... and in RL there are also Manufacturers who want to protect their products against any changes ... and yes, its annoying, if you want to repair/upgrade a product (maybe  a computer etc.) and than realizing that it is sealed and protected against unboxing. BUT the point is: They are the right owners of the products and its their decision to do or not ... as it is your decision to buy it or not. Same here in SL. If you like to have the full freedom to change your clothes/Furniture the way you like, i would recommend to buy the stuff from Manufacturers who are specialized in selling it as Full Perm .... and there are a lot of Full perm sellers in SL and on Marketplace.

Indeed. The only no-mod items I ever purchase are when I both can't find a moddable version and lack the time or skills to make it myself. That left me snarling over clothing because while I can mesh, script, texture, animate and make any of the very few sound fx I need in my studio, I totally suck at rigging. One good thing I am determined to come out of the whole bunch of free time the current situation has left me with is that by the time it's over I will suck less at rigging and fitting clothing at least. Making critters or characters to a standard I'm prepared to let anyone see outside my workshop will take a little longer

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8 hours ago, VanillaLovelace said:

Well ... I understand your point, but SL is just a micro cosmos of RL ... and in RL there are also Manufacturers who want to protect their products against any changes ... and yes, its annoying, if you want to repair/upgrade a product (maybe  a computer etc.) and than realizing that it is sealed and protected against unboxing. BUT the point is: They are the right owners of the products and its their decision to do or not ... as it is your decision to buy it or not. Same here in SL. If you like to have the full freedom to change your clothes/Furniture the way you like, i would recommend to buy the stuff from Manufacturers who are specialized in selling it as Full Perm .... and there are a lot of Full perm sellers in SL and on Marketplace.

Even after someone pays them money so that they can be the owner of it?

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On 4/7/2020 at 9:42 PM, Theresa Tennyson said:

Even after someone pays them money so that they can be the owner of it?

Property rights and copy right are complex legal issues, so this should be discussed under another topic. But to give you a very short answer: yes, sure! If someone sells music clips / sound files to you, which are protected under copyright law, you are not allowed to sell them to others. You „own“ them, but you don‘t have the right to distribute them. But back to the topic now: The question was: Why manufacturers sell their work very often as NO MOD. And the answer is: There may be different reasons why they do it .... but whatever the reasons might be, its their right to decide, if they want to sell them as NO MOD or MODIFY items.

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On 4/9/2020 at 5:15 PM, VanillaLovelace said:

There may be different reasons why they do it ...

One can be the use of texture/color/size change huds. The most used, reliable and complete scriptset on the market has this caveat clearly stated: the objects containing the control hud scripts MUST be no mod, and the scripts are written in such a way that they stop working completely if the owner change is detected and the perms are not set to no-mod.

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