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27 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Now the articles seem to want to push the possible Ebola virus drug for COVID-19, the drug that doesn't work for Ebola but made by Gilead Sciences.  Gilead will go into the hundreds of dollars possibly if this drug is approved by the FDA.   And, this is the part of all of it I really hate - the profiteers off of other people's suffering.   However, fear and greed drive the stock market.   That's just a fact.  Not to mention we live in a media hype world now more than ever due to the technology and information age we currently live in.

"The articles" that do not appear in peer-reviewed reputable scientific journals will make an excellent substitute for the bog roll idiots have swept off the supermarket shelves. This would apply to almost all the "media hype" you mention. Almost none of it is credibly sourced.

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3 minutes ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

"The articles" that do not appear in peer-reviewed reputable scientific journals will make an excellent substitute for the bog roll idiots have swept off the supermarket shelves. This would apply to almost all the "media hype" you mention. Almost none of it is credibly sourced.

Yeah sure, but that's not going to stop the fear and greed driven stock market.  Not to mention what is 100% credible when money doesn't talk, it swears.  

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Of course it's not going to stop it, @FairreLilette - I'm not trying to "stop it"... I do have a grossly overestimated idea of my own significance in the world, of course, just like everybody else, but I promise you I'm not daft enough to think I'm capable of that.

I do know how to read a scientific paper critically, though, thanks to the years I spent as a molecular biologist and this particular area is right in my wheelhouse since I spent those years studying the molecular biology of viruses. That makes it sorta incumbent on me, morally speaking, to take note of when something as daft as this is being cited in that "media hype" we both disdain, and get accurate info out there if/when it crops up in places I usually frequent - like here, for example. That much, I can do and should.

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19 minutes ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

Of course it's not going to stop it, @FairreLilette - I'm not trying to "stop it"... I do have a grossly overestimated idea of my own significance in the world, of course, just like everybody else, but I promise you I'm not daft enough to think I'm capable of that.

I do know how to read a scientific paper critically, though, thanks to the years I spent as a molecular biologist and this particular area is right in my wheelhouse since I spent those years studying the molecular biology of viruses. That makes it sorta incumbent on me, morally speaking, to take note of when something as daft as this is being cited in that "media hype" we both disdain, and get accurate info out there if/when it crops up in places I usually frequent - like here, for example. That much, I can do and should.

I just wanted to say you may not have read my edit to add in my other post.  I have been "trying" a modality per my doctor's prescribed order for three and a half months now with very, very little improvement.  (This is not for coronavirus although I have never been tested).  I am sort of in a "drug trial" myself.  I have no other choice because I am suffering and I am tired of suffering.  My doctor recommended me to see a specialist just before all this coronavirus shelter in happened.  So I spoke to my nurse this morning to ask him to please try another medicine for me as I cannot get to another doctor outside right now at this time.  My landlady won't allow.  We may have to move if we go out.  It's her property irregardless of any "law"....so I cannot see a specialist at this time.   And, I don't want to be evicted.  I don't want to tangle with her nor do other's here.  It's listen to her or move out.  

My only point for my edit to add was that there are all kinds of drug trials.  But, what choice do the coronavirus patients really honestly have?  Is it a trial, an experiment...or nothing?  And, if it's an experiment or nothing...if it were me on a respirator, I would want a trial of something as awkward as that sounds.  

And then there is this sort of odd placebo effect (it's not really a placebo - I don't know what to call it)  I've heard where in just having/offering a treatment seems to build confidence in a patient and a survival rate can go up.  Saying there is nothing to treat you with could bring a patient way down which could have adverse effects but that's not 100% either.  I don't know if that is happening here with coronavirus patients or not but I've heard it has happened.  But, if I had coronavirus, I'd hate to hear there is nothing.  

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Under NO circumstances am I advocating refusing medical advice or suggesting anyone does not listen to their doctor with an open mind if they suggest an alternative therapy for a condition that is proving intractable. The medics attending  you, personally, are the most knowledgeable professionals when it comes to how your body, your physiology, your genetics, react to a particular treatment for a particular condition. We put our faith in their clinical judgement because of their training and experience for good reason. And it's exactly the same reason why the fact that there's a questionable "study" out there should not sway opinion no matter how widely it's "reported." A junk study is still a junk study no matter how strongly it is seized upon by folks who think its bogus "conclusions" support their aims or ideology. The damage done by ex-doctor Wakefield springs strongly to mind at this point....

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16 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

My landlady won't allow.  We may have to move if we go out.  It's her property irregardless of any "law"....so I cannot see a specialist at this time.   And, I don't want to be evicted.  I don't want to tangle with her nor do other's here.  It's listen to her or move out.  

I don't want to be mean, or sound mean, but I am going to be a bit blunt here.. I have family and friends ALL over cali, including your area, so I am abreast of many rumors, concerns, goings on, etc..(people have way more tim to talk to one another now, of course). I have not yet run into anyone anywhere in that state as woefully uninformed about their rights as you are, and that makes me really sad knowing you're already worried about other things and don't need that compounding your plate. I don't mean that as an insult to you, but more of an encouragement to know your rights, and understand them. I have a feeling this particular lockdown, this situation is not the first nor will it be the last, time your landlady has basically bent you over without so much as a hello, and you're unfortunately letting her. The bolded emphasis is mine above..and it is so absolutely wrong on every possible count, *especially where you are. 

She, legally, cannot kick you out without rhyme or reason, you have renter's rights. What SHE is doing in her own personal lockdown of the property in your own words, is actually 100% illegal on all fronts, even if a statewide lockdown were issues when she first started it. Your fear of tangling with her, I totally get, but she's not on the right side of that argument in any way. She's counting on you and other tenants, to not know this and not challenge it. I encourage you to do a fair amount of research, more than a fair amount really, because I have a feeling she's probably been taking serious advantage of you in other ways you're not seeing or noticing as well. It's likely she has many violations under her belt of all kinds, but since none of you are willing to stand up against it (and, again, legally you CAN and would have full legal backing to do so in your state, in your area..you have waaaay more rights than you think, a challenge doesn't equate an eviction) she gets away with it.

This whole virus situation is only making things worse for you, I'm sure, but she cannot...I cannot possible emphasize that any stronger...CANNOT prevent you from seeing medical professionals. She CANNOT evict you for that. She is NOT above any laws. Giving her that kind of power is precisely why it's so easy for her to bend you and other tenants over, without question, get what she wants and then come back later for more. There's nothing legal about what she's doing, and if you are being threatened with eviction, threaten her with legal action (because that's an illegal act on her part). 

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From this morning's press conference which I unfortunately slept through -- I wish they would tape them.   

 

Via CNN :  
image.thumb.png.969c53e8fbff526d45aea496c69e31b0.png
 

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12 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

 

I don't want to be mean, or sound mean, but I am going to be a bit blunt here.. I have family and friends ALL over cali, including your area, so I am abreast of many rumors, concerns, goings on, etc..(people have way more tim to talk to one another now, of course). I have not yet run into anyone anywhere in that state as woefully uninformed about their rights as you are, and that makes me really sad knowing you're already worried about other things and don't need that compounding your plate. I don't mean that as an insult to you, but more of an encouragement to know your rights, and understand them. I have a feeling this particular lockdown, this situation is not the first nor will it be the last, time your landlady has basically bent you over without so much as a hello, and you're unfortunately letting her. The bolded emphasis is mine above..and it is so absolutely wrong on every possible count, *especially where you are. 

She, legally, cannot kick you out without rhyme or reason, you have renter's rights. What SHE is doing in her own personal lockdown of the property in your own words, is actually 100% illegal on all fronts, even if a statewide lockdown were issues when she first started it. Your fear of tangling with her, I totally get, but she's not on the right side of that argument in any way. She's counting on you and other tenants, to not know this and not challenge it. I encourage you to do a fair amount of research, more than a fair amount really, because I have a feeling she's probably been taking serious advantage of you in other ways you're not seeing or noticing as well. It's likely she has many violations under her belt of all kinds, but since none of you are willing to stand up against it (and, again, legally you CAN and would have full legal backing to do so in your state, in your area..you have waaaay more rights than you think, a challenge doesn't equate an eviction) she gets away with it.

This whole virus situation is only making things worse for you, I'm sure, but she cannot...I cannot possible emphasize that any stronger...CANNOT prevent you from seeing medical professionals. She CANNOT evict you for that. She is NOT above any laws. Giving her that kind of power is precisely why it's so easy for her to bend you and other tenants over, without question, get what she wants and then come back later for more. There's nothing legal about what she's doing, and if you are being threatened with eviction, threaten her with legal action (because that's an illegal act on her part). 

Yes I know Tari, but this is an unknown and this is her property.   She could give us all notices because say she wants to close her building/business due to the unknown of coronavirus.  Several of us have already requested to go out.  She wants it her way.  The answer is no we can't go out of the building period.  

My landlady has told us Tari that we cannot go out to see a doctor either.

I have let family know.

I am concerned...it's been three and a half months of treatment with a medicine that is affording no help.  As a matter of fact, it's a bit over three and a half months now, so I stopped taking it for about two weeks now because it's not working and it never did work.  Let me see if my nurse can offer any help and if my doctor can do anything but I do know he wants me to see a specialist and perhaps have a test he cannot provide in his office.

It's horrible, I know but so would her wanting to close her building and then all of us trying to pack and find new places to live - that would be worse especially when not feeling good.

Again, this is an unknown...a lawyer might give her special circumstances or something.  

I hope clearer heads will prevail soon.

I hope things lessen up here soon but paranoia has completely taken over here.

 

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7 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Yes I know Tari, but this is an unknown and this is her property.   She could give us all notices because say she wants to close her building/business due to the unknown of coronavirus.  Several of us have already requested to go out.  She wants it her way.  The answer is no we can't go out of the building period.  

My landlady has told us Tari that we cannot go out to see a doctor either.

I have let family know.

I am concerned...it's been three and a half months of treatment with a medicine that is affording no help.  As a matter of fact, it's a bit over three and a half months now, so I stopped taking it for about two weeks now because it's not working and it never did work.  Let me see if my nurse can offer any help and if my doctor can do anything but I do know he wants me to see a specialist and perhaps have a test he cannot provide in his office.

It's horrible, I know but so would her wanting to close her building and then all of us trying to pack and find new places to live - that would be worse especially when not feeling good.

Again, this is an unknown...a lawyer might give her special circumstances or something.  

I hope clearer heads will prevail soon.

I hope things lessen up here soon but paranoia has completely taken over here.

 

There is no unknown in this regard, you need to stop giving her more rope to hang you with. You're literally letting her get away with it and excusing it away because you don't understand your rights. Your landlady CANNOT legally lock you in and prevent you from seeking medical care. That is 100% illegal in every state in the US.  No lawyer would give her special circumstances, this is NOT an unknown, this is a fact, an absolute fact.  I don't give a crap what she "says" to you, she is completely in the wrong and you need to understand this. It being her property does not put her above actual laws, that's ridiculous.  No property owner/landlord/landlady is above the law...NONE. 

I'm somewhat sorry I replied now, and I'm sorry it came out so blunt, but, really, this is ridiculous and the way you're handling it is probably causing you some serious medical harm, and it bothers me tremendously that you're sacrificing your own health because you really don't understand how illegal this all is.  I really hope you do some proper research and stand up for yourself and stop letting her walk all over you, and stop making excuses for her ***** and completely ILLEGAL behavior.  I also hope you feel better soon., really, more than anything. 

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33 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

My landlady has told us Tari that we cannot go out to see a doctor either.

I have let family know.

Maybe it’s time to let the police know.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I'm pretty confident there's not a tradeoff between the economy on the one hand and virus containment on the other. There will be, kinda, that's what the "dance" is about: managing public behavior to keep the effective R₀ below 1.

I'm bit confused about this. There's not a tradeoff, but there is... kinda?

I think we're generally in agreement here, Qie. My problem with discussing this tradeoff as either-or is that it's ignoring a lot of complexity. China seems (still too early to know for sure) to have achieved containment with less economic damage than some are anticipating here. If it's truly either-or, how'd they escape our choice? Kobayashi Maru?

My New Deal example comes from a vague recollection of reading about the termination of government programs in Montana as funding was shifted to the Tennessee Valley Authority. I wish I could recall the book, but it made a compelling argument for the miscalculation of "benefit" that occurs when a focused (in space and time) event comes at the expense of a diffuse one. The newspapers of that time were filled with stories and photographs of bridge construction projects that, while helpful, might not have provided as much overall benefit as smaller and more widespread efforts. Those small, distributed, longer term benefits would never be as photogenic as the big projects, nor satisfy the public desire for immediate results.

We've got limited ability to ramp up the care system, so the onus is on mitigation via isolation. That too has a cost, possibly with a very long tail. If we entered a depression because of a six month stoppage in our economy, it would be reasonable to wonder if the decline in standard of living would result in "invisible deaths" spread across the nation and across a decade. It would also be reasonable to wonder if China, or any other nation that recovered more quickly, might obtain a durable competitive advantage as a result. Anyone who's studied compound interest (another exponential growth function) understands how exquisitely sensitive it is to the exponent.

This is the New Deal argument in reverse, with a very public and immediate downside (deaths) being weighed against a more distributed and invisible upside. To be fair, there is also a very visible immediate upside in the restarting of businesses. We'll have flare-ups until a vaccine is available, but the theory is that those will be better contained because we're better prepared now.

On another note, I'm curious about Andrew Cuomo's pleas for more ventilators. He's blasted FEMA for sending only 400 when he projects a need for 30,000. The entire US contains only 200,000 ventilators. FEMA hasn't got 30,000 to give and NYC isn't the only place that needs them. Ford, if they build any, won't have them ready for months. This was a problem that needed to be addressed years ago. Someone might argue it's not a problem at all. Stockpiling for the worst case also has a cost.

ETA: I was wrong about the FEMA ventilator stockpile. I just read that they have have up to 20,000 in reserve. That changes the dynamic between FEMA and NYC and wants an explanation for holding back. I imagine those things can be moved around as necessary, so it seems possible to deploy the entire stockpile and relocate as necessary.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters

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40 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

My landlady has told us Tari that we cannot go out to see a doctor either.

I have let family know.

Another thing, which perhaps you already you know, but just in case (or to reinforce it) even if she were to try to evict you, there is more to that than her saying "you're evicted".  There is a legal process which she needs to follow in order to do that, and she needs to have a legally valid reason to do so. It is not a process that happens overnight.  Likely, I would imagine that you would also be able to raise an objection during the process as well, especially if the only reason for the eviction notice was because you left the building during the shelter in place order.  This is not second life where the property owner can do whatever they want for any or no reason.  In real life, someone that provides rentals has to follow local and state codes and regulations for rental properties.  Renters may not have a lot of rights, but they do have some. 

I live in California, and all of the shelter at home orders I have heard about for California allow going outside of your home or apartment, legally, for a pretty wide variety of reasons.  They are not "lock-in" orders.  You have every right to legally leave the premises for medical appointments, to work at an essential business, to grocery shop, to get prescriptions from a pharmacy, to go for a walk for exercise,  to walk your dog,  to care for other family members...  

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52 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

t's horrible, I know but so would her wanting to close her building and then all of us trying to pack and find new places to live - that would be worse especially when not feeling good.

She needs the money you pay her in rent. You can find new places to live, she cannot find new tenants who will put up with her... well, kidnapping, honestly. 

She needs you more than you need her. I urge you and your neighbors to get together and read this - Renter's Rights, and then call the police and let them deal with her lunacy.

 

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Not only is it illegal for her to lock you in, but she also cannot evict you if you go out.  Not only would that be illegal in general, but right now, almost every state has put in rules to prevent any evictions of any sort during the 'shelter in place' orders.

I'd definitely contact the police here.  Granted, the landlady will likely get ticked off and after all of this is over she will try to find a valid excuse for evicting you, but after this is all over, I'd highly advice finding a new place to live anyway.  One without such a crazy landlord.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

I live in California, and all of the shelter at home orders I have heard about for California allow going outside of your home or apartment, legally, for a pretty wide variety of reasons.  They are not "lock-in" orders.  You have every right to legally leave the premises for medical appointments, to work at an essential business, to grocery shop, to get prescriptions from a pharmacy, to go for a walk for exercise,  to walk your dog,  to care for other family members... 

Yes, I know...I even have it written down and was going to give it to her...the "what we can do" and "what we cannot do" rules.  But, she's not having it.  She said to us "anyone who leaves this building is not going to be let back in - that's it!"  And, that's almost an exact quote.

I forgot one part of the doctor thing though...she said "unless it is an emergency".  I have been living with this near four months now and I don't think she will take it (my malady) as an emergency 'unless' via my nurse who will contact my doctor steps in and calls her (my landlady) and says get her to the hospital.

She is almost living in triage mode, but I do not know how or why she would know triage?  

Right now...I'm in wait mode because if it's not an emergency "we can't go"...not right now.  

I feel my hands are tied at this time.  

I feel if I could just be tested though my hands wouldn't be so tied.

Where are the tests?  

 

Edited by FairreLilette
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6 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I'm bit confused about this. There's not a tradeoff, but there is... kinda?

Yeah, sorry, I was exceedingly terse. I meant that particular economy / health security tradeoff doesn't apply now (during what needs to be the Hammer phase I guess), but it starts to be relevant, as a way of seeing the "Dance" management of public policy later when R₀ gets below 1. If constraints are relaxed now we're just prolonging both the medical and economic pain, hence it's not a tradeoff, and ignoring the virus to get back to work by an arbitrary date certain (e.g., Easter) is simply promoting the worst of all possible worlds.

After hearing today's Fox News "Town Hall" it seems inevitable that Trump will declare victory on the virus next week and send everybody back to work (and air travel, and hotel/golf resort attendance) by Easter, regardless of the death rates. It's a long time from Easter to November, and it will look for all the world like a parody of rapacious fat-cat capitalism, while the corpses pile up like cordwood. There's no tradeoff there, unless we count the bereavement industry windfall.

It however raises an interesting question: What if Pence miraculously grew a pair? If he decided to for once stand up on the side of science (not his thing of course, so this is all hypothetical) and said the real doctors have it right and relaxing the restrictions now would destroy both public health and national economic recovery. Just hypothetically, what's to stop him making Trump his little b!tch for the duration?

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1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

Yes, I know...I even have it written down and was going to give it to her...the "what we can do" and "what we cannot do" rules.  But, she's not having it.  She said to us "anyone who leaves this building is not going to be let back in - that's it!"  And, that's almost an exact quote.

I forgot one part of the doctor thing though...she said "unless it is an emergency".  I have been living with this near four months now and I don't think she will take it (my malady) as an emergency 'unless' via my nurse who will contact my doctor steps in and calls her (my landlady) and says get her to the hospital.

She is almost living in triage mode, but I do not know how or why she would know triage?  

Right now...I'm in wait mode because if it's not an emergency "we can't go"...not right now.  

I feel my hands are tied at this time.  

 

If she is actually locking the building so that you physically cannot leave (or return, if you should leave), then I would call that "being held hostage" and I would call the Police.

Even as a tenant of her building you have the right to come and go from the building. 

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2 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

If she is actually locking the building so that you physically cannot leave (or return, if you should leave), then I would call that "being held hostage" and I would call the Police.

Even as a tenant of her building you have the right to come and go from the building. 

I know, I just don't know if I want to go through all that with the police.

Not right now.

I want to give it a little more time.  Not a lot of more time, but a little bit.  A few days.  

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I know, I just don't know if I want to go through all that with the police.

Not right now.

I want to give it a little more time.  Not a lot of more time, but a little bit.  A few days.  

Perhaps one of your neighbors will, then. 

Anyway, I hope that you are able to get the medical care / different medicine that you need from your doctor, and that you start feeling better soon.  Sending  thoughts for healing and strength your way.

Edited by moirakathleen
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47 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

On another note, I'm curious about Andrew Cuomo's pleas for more ventilators. He's blasted FEMA for sending only 400 when he projects a need for 30,000. The entire US contains only 200,000 ventilators. FEMA hasn't got 30,000 to give and NYC isn't the only place that needs them. Ford, if they build any, won't have them ready for months. This was a problem that needed to be addressed years ago. Someone might argue it's not a problem at all. Stockpiling for the worst case also has a cost.

 

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12 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

After hearing today's Fox News "Town Hall" it seems inevitable that Trump will declare victory on the virus next week and send everybody back to work (and air travel, and hotel/golf resort attendance) by Easter, regardless of the death rates.

What I heard on NPR was Trump saying he "hopes" to start things back up by Easter. In two weeks, we'll have a much better idea where Italy and the rest of the world are headed, and who we're tracking most closely. If that doesn't look good, I imagine Trump going day-to-day in considering flipping the switch back on. Making a mistake that requires a massive backtrack is not in his best interests.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Liberty University in Virginia is welcoming students back to campus, though they will continue with online classes and the cafe only doing takeout.

"5,000 students were expected to be living in Liberty's dorms as classes resumed Monday"

*sigh*  Stupid people everywhere.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell

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2 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

The answer is no we can't go out of the building period.  

My landlady has told us Tari that we cannot go out to see a doctor either.

I have let family know.

I think I read in a previous post of yours that the landlady locked the building doors so nobody could enter/exit. Blocking egress from a building is a clear violation of fire code. From the exchanges you've described, I could also believe the landlady's behavior rises to the level of a felony. The police are always happy to stop felonies.

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