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13 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

I think we'd all be better off having our own CDC's and consulting together.  With the internet, that's so easy now.  I think this WHO has seen it's day.  Just my opinion anyway.  With the internet, I think we, as countries, can find less costly ways of helping others and consulting. 

What you're proposing doesn't have an easy answer - is it better to have our own CDC consult with the equivalent governing bodies in other countries, or better for an over-arching governmental structure such as the WHO which contains representatives from all countries meeting together as one to solve world problems.

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Fear will kill us before any illness ever should. Practice social distancing, wash your hands thoroughly and often. Get lots of rest and look after your general health. Covid-19 is potential

I am, but I have every reason to be, and I think it would be extremely abnormal, problematic and likely damaging if I wasn't.  Just as I think the overall lack of fear in far too many is precisely tha

I know the news seems terrifying, Chilli (may I call you that?). There is tremendous uncertainty around the world right now, but still a lot we can do individually and collectively to care for ourselv

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11 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

 go to the hospital today.   It's been difficult to swallow for two days because of mucus now in my throat I cannot clear.   

brave the E.R

  My doctor wants me to see an Ear, Nose and Throat doctor.  He's been telling me that for at least three months.  I said "How can I get there if they are closed".  He said "We'll get you there".  It never happened.  He never got me there nor anywhere.  

 I was afraid to get coronavirus at an E.R.  I was thinking my doctor would come through for me.  I see my doctor on a conference call phone only now since coronavirus.  

Personally I'd have to be near death to visit a hospital emergency room right now with all the coughing Covid patients in the waiting room. Have you been enough of a 'squeaky wheel' with that doctor? I know though, it might not do any good as many specialists simply aren't open now.
You're right, I've been reading about all kinds of damage outside the lungs caused by Covid, due to the inflammation. Whether from Covid or not, inflammation can do major damage to the body.

My son-in-law was out jogging and a cyclist ran him down...he was transported by ambulance to emergency, doing okay thankfully but now I have to worry for a couple weeks that he might have contracted Covid and brought it back to my daughter and grandson as well   :(

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5 hours ago, Orwar said:

And has the good really outweighed the bad? 

   According to some estimates, the death toll of America's 'world policing' and warmongering since the end of the second world war has surpassed the Holocaust. The war on terror alone had a third of a million civilian casualties of war.

Well, there's an enormous difference between acting as an engaged global citizen, even in a leadership role, and "warmongering." The difference is not merely semantic: it's the difference between the negotiated Iran Nuclear deal (that the US administration has since torn up), and invading Iraq.

The more truly engaged with its international partners, of whatever stripe, that the US is, the less likely it is to fly off on military adventurism, because its sole criteria for action is less likely to be "the national interest" than the concerns expressed by a wide range of allies and international associates. "Going it alone" is likely to be a lot more bloody than the sorts of things determined upon by discussion and consensus among those with a diverse range of perspectives.

It's not always going to work, of course. Witness Tony Blair and the 2nd Gulf War, for instance. But the alternative is far worse.

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On 3/20/2020 at 10:33 PM, Amanda Crisp said:

I’m not especially scared.

I take precautions because we live an an era of “elevated risk”, but I’ve had practice doing that.

Mainly I’m hopeful that this event - unfortunate as it is - might nudge us a bit closer to getting our mutual act together.

The illusion that “things like that don’t happen here” has been pierced, so maybe that can lead toward a change in how we deal with Big Problems and also each other.

Because if we can’t, our odds in the evolutionary lottery only get worse.

giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f29c08bf8fd90abda76e7

 

Well, based on the human penchant for self-destruction; the odds may have gotten worse.

Sadly.

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10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Personally I'd have to be near death to visit a hospital emergency room right now with all the coughing Covid patients in the waiting room. Have you been enough of a 'squeaky wheel' with that doctor? I know though, it might not do any good as many specialists simply aren't open now.
You're right, I've been reading about all kinds of damage outside the lungs caused by Covid, due to the inflammation. Whether from Covid or not, inflammation can do major damage to the body.

My son-in-law was out jogging and a cyclist ran him down...he was transported by ambulance to emergency, doing okay thankfully but now I have to worry for a couple weeks that he might have contracted Covid and brought it back to my daughter and grandson as well   :(

Oh, I'm so sorry, Luna.  

Yes, absolutely this is a very frightening place to go - the E.R.  Plus, I don't want to be kept in quarantine because I need medical treatment or went to an E.R.  Plus, I fear my landlady won't let me back here and will take my things and I will be homeless and not even know where my belongings are.  This is my home and I don't know what to do.  I feel like our rights have vanished and cruelty has taken over along with insanity.  California has been extremely cautious because someone from Wuhan, China was here in the Winter of 2019, so it's been especially strict but I don't want to lose everything that belongs to me and be treated unfairly and cruelly with the threat of "you can't come back here".  What if my things are damaged if they are moved?  I cannot afford to replace things that are mishandled by others if I am not allowed back in my own home.  This is how insane things are.  

My doctor could have sent someone to take a culture of what was growing in my nose to see what kills it and then "make" the medicine from the compound that kills it.   I'm at my wits end.  I think I may need to consult with an attorney so A) I'm not put in quarantine and B) No one tries to confiscate my belongings and toss me out into homelessness.  

As far as the WHO.  Do we sometimes go on blind faith and have a visceral reaction to to many of these types of rich bureaucracies?  A lot of these are set up as tax write offs for the rich.  Even Bob Dylan sings about "tax deductible charity organizations" in his song "Ballad of a Thin Man" which are mostly sent up to control the media whether liberal slanted or otherwise.   

But to keep from getting my emotions further involved with the WHO, they need to be questioned about why they did not alert California sooner about someone from Wuhan, China being here.  IMO, they need to be questioned.  I'm not giving them anymore blind faith.  

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46 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

image.png.b135dfebd7dc06e92cb62a388a4f2c6a.png is what I see. But since Orwar laughed I'm assuming I need to get offended? 😛

Well, he might be laughing AT me instead of WITH me? .... I can see that my posts will only be taken seriously if someone with an intellectual capacity on Orwar's level validates them. I shall hire him forthwith!  🙄

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13 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Yes, but lies and cover ups.  It's not just the WHO and Trump, Luna.  It's China too.  

Another question I was wondering, if China and the WHO screw up so badly because of panic?   Yet this is the World Health Organization, would they really panic? 

 

It would make more sense if you made more sense. Or at least made up your mind a bit. One moment you're blaming the WHO for not immediately panicking and locking down worldwide traffic, the next you fear they 'screw up so badly because of panic.' Take a pick, and go with that.

 

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All I know is excessive red tape and protocol could cost lives.

 

Excactly what red tape would that be?! There's none, far as I know. Their goal is simply to coordinate and give advice. Often countries listen. And sometimes they even wait a bit for their (non-binding) assessments, before rampantly doing their own thang, as they've learned that coordinating things together is often the saner choice -- the very reason the WHO got instituted to begin with.

 

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I think the WHO should have some advice for doctors on how to treat those who are highly suspected now of having COVID-19 but aren't better and have had no treatment for months, months, months, months, months. 

 

This part makes me sad. :( Because I know you'be been ill for 5 straight months. But the WHO is not going to tell your doctor what to do. That's simply not their task. If your doctor keeps stringing you along, with BS lines like "We will get you there!", but nothing materializes, then simply dump his sorry ass, and get someone who *is* willing to help you. Sitting around, blaming the WHO and China isn't going to do you any good.

 

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I mean what are they doing?  What are they thinking?  Bureaucracy's can be considered a hindrance because of their red tape.   Raises hand; I'm one of those people that's in the highly suspected area of having COVID-19 in January of 2020 due to a person from Wuhan, China being in California in the Winter of 2019 and I feel my whole health care system has been held hostage to the WHO. 

 

I do not fully understand your apparent strong need to blame China or the WHO. I mean, I fully understand Trump's motives for doing so: he needs a blatantly obvious scapegoat to deflect from his own administration's momumental eff-up in this matter. Remember "We have it fully under control!"? Even half his cabinet ministers already knew, at the time, the situation was going to be very dire. So, why do you keep toeing the crazed FOX news line?

 

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But, sometimes I think rich bureaucrats mean more to people and liberal causes than the actual taxpayers who pay that bill who are nothing.  

 

Because Trump and his cronies aren't rich, right!? /sarcsasm

 

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I think we'd all be better off having our own CDC's and consulting together.  With the internet, that's so easy now.

 

I wouldn't put too much stock in Internet self-medication advice, lest you be found injecting bleech one day.

People around the world ARE actually looking for a vaccin. Professional scientists. No red tape involved. And, ironically, the last thing this world needs now, is attacking/destroying the one global bastion or coordinaton for illnesses, the WHO.

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9 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

I mean, I fully understand Trump's motives for doing so: he needs a blatantly obvious scapegoat to deflect from his own administration's momumental eff-up in this matter. Remember "We have it fully under control!"? Even half his cabinet ministers already knew, at the time, the situation was going to be very dire.

I hope it's just deflection, but after watching this I'm wondering if he's planning on starting a war with China:

 

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3 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

It would make more sense if you made more sense. Or at least made up your mind a bit. One moment you're blaming the WHO for not immediately panicking and locking down worldwide traffic, the next you fear they 'screw up so badly because of panic.' Take a pick, and go with that.

 

 

Excactly what red tape would that be?! There's none, far as I know. Their goal is simply to coordinate and give advice. Often countries listen. And sometimes they even wait a bit for their (non-binding) assessments, before rampantly doing their own thang, as they've learned that coordinating things together is often the saner choice -- the very reason the WHO got instituted to begin with.

 

 

This part makes me sad. :( Because I know you'be been ill for 5 straight months. But the WHO is not going to tell your doctor what to do. That's simply not their task. If your doctor keeps stringing you along, with BS lines like "We will get you there!", but nothing materializes, then simply dump his sorry ass, and get someone who *is* willing to help you. Sitting around, blaming the WHO and China isn't going to do you any good.

 

 

I do not fully understand your apparent strong need to blame China or the WHO. I mean, I fully understand Trump's motives for doing so: he needs a blatantly obvious scapegoat to deflect from his own administration's momumental eff-up in this matter. Remember "We have it fully under control!"? Even half his cabinet ministers already knew, at the time, the situation was going to be very dire. So, why do you keep toeing the crazed FOX news line?

 

 

Because Trump and his cronies aren't rich, right!? /sarcsasm

 

 

I wouldn't put too much stock in Internet self-medication advice, lest you be found injecting bleech one day.

People around the world ARE actually looking for a vaccin. Professional scientists. No red tape involved. And, ironically, the last thing this world needs now, is attacking/destroying the one global bastion or coordinaton for illnesses, the WHO.

This is not about Trump, this is about people who were screwed over.  There is no other evidence that suggests it didn't come anywhere but from Wuhan, China and the WHO knew that.

These kinds of bureaucracies are a bunch of "pencil pushers", that is part of the red tape.  Plus, America is following their strategies for lockdowns, social distancing, yada, yada.  Not to mention our California doctors have been held hostage for a wave of coronavirus patients that didn't even ever show up and many E.R.'s sat empty.  

I don't really want to debate the WHO much more as I'm not a big fan of "pencil pushers".  You can see Bob Dylan discussing these kinds of people in his complete masterpiece, "The Ballad of a Thin Man"..."You walk into the room with a pencil in your hand..."   

Plus, I doubt the WHO will collapse here.  Those looking for tax deductible charity organizations will fill that void undoubtedly so I doubt it's in danger.  But, I feel like telling them to eat cake.  

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29 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

My doctor could have sent someone to take a culture of what was growing in my nose to see what kills it and then "make" the medicine from the compound that kills it.   I'm at my wits end.

What about going to another doctor, like getting a 2nd opinion? That should be covered under many insurance policies, but even if not could you scrape together enough money to get this sinus problem treated?

If you do, best not to mention Covid, at least not at first, because they might not take your sinus problem seriously.  There's a lot of coronavirus anxiety, and so doctors easily dismiss anybody who mentions Covid right off the bat, especially when expressing anxiety.  Was just reading about that.

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2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

What about going to another doctor, like getting a 2nd opinion? That should be covered under many insurance policies, but even if not could you scrape together enough money to get this sinus problem treated?

If you do, best not to mention Covid, at least not at first, because they might not take your sinus problem seriously.  There's a lot of coronavirus anxiety, and so doctors easily dismiss anybody who mentions Covid right off the bat, especially when expressing anxiety.  Was just reading about that.

That's what my doctor wants for me to see an Ear, Nose and Throat doctor but they have been closed.  I don't know of any who were open not to mention my doctor gives a referral name whenever I've needed any kind of specialist.  He gave me no referral name to go to if he had one at all that was open.  I don't think he knew who was open or not open for any illness that was not possibly positive COVID-19, such as difficulty breathing or fever.  

And, as far as COVID-19, I don't want to be demonized.  We, all of us, have suffered too much demonization in this world as it is.  

I also want it clear I do not hold China responsible as we all know viruses could start anywhere.  I do hold the WHO accountable because we need them to answer some questions here.  I don't care if this started in Jibip, anywhere.  It still would be under the WHO's jurisdiction.   One of the questions is, could this have been prevented if they had locked down Wuhan?  Plus, there are other questions.  

The people of China are not responsible and I don't even know how much the Chinese government is responsible.  It's the WHO I'd like some clear answers from.

I'd like to hear from Dr. Fauci rather than Trump or anyone else for that matter as to how to treat others besides those who may be COVID-19 patients.  Whether this is or isn't with my nose, it started when I became ill with a flu-like illness in January of 2020.  My doctor knows all this.  

I also wanted to say, an E.R. really cannot treat my nose as they'd be guessing.  My doctor needs to really take of culture of what is growing in my nose to see what will kill it.  Do I want guessing?  Because what if I lose my home for guessing about 'what it is'?  

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My thoughts about the WHO and what they might have done or not done in terms of COVID-19 response, are pretty minor when compared with the actions of a world leader who initially downplayed the whole pandemic thing,  thought it would be better for us to make our own test kits, initially praised the Chinese for their response, and then later - after reality pierced the world of alternate reality - decided to blame China and the WHO.   I have a feeling that no matter how excellent the initial response of the WHO could have been, there would still have been some world leaders refusing to take the information seriously and react appropriately in the best public health interests for their citizens.

 

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

how to treat others besides those who may be COVID-19 patients

Fairre, I do hope that you will be able to get the medical care you need soon.  I think that whether physician offices are open or not, whether or not they are seeing patients in the office or just by video conferencing, etc., is probably dependent on County guidelines as well as local medical association / physician groups guidelines.  I have started receiving reminders from my local health plan group regarding making appointments to  get caught up on screenings and other preventative medical needs that may have been postponed due to California state and county shelter in place orders.  So there is movement in my part of the state,  though not quite in the order I would prefer - I was contacted to set up an appointment for a mammogram this month,  but the ophthalmologist I have a referral to so that I can start the process for getting cataract surgery is still only making appointments for emergency eye care. 

 

In terms or the thread topic, I am more concerned and worried now, than I was a month or so ago.   As more things open up,  my concern about people no longer physical distancing and wearing masks increases.  Looking at my county's active versus recovered graphs, I'm not seeing any consistent drop yet in the active cases.  Yesterday was the first reported significant drop in active cases, but whether is the start of a downward trend or not remains to be seen.   Our Public Health Officer did slow down the re-opening process for our county last week based on our county's data compared to the State's guidelines for further re-opening. 

The propensity for the recent protests to turn violent has me concerned as well.  We have had looting and vandalism the last two nights in the downtown area of the  largest city in my county.   

I've decided to hold off on all the little mini-vacations I do during the summer with the grand-kids, my sister or my husband, even if hotels in the areas we usually travel to do open up for regular guests before the summer is over.  There is so much upheaval and unrest at the moment - I'd rather wait until we figure out what the new normal is going to look like, and have settled into that, before resuming things like traveling around.

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3 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

That's what my doctor wants for me to see an Ear, Nose and Throat doctor but they have been closed.  I don't know of any who were open not to mention my doctor gives a referral name whenever I've needed any kind of specialist.  He gave me no referral name to go to if he had one at all that was open.  I don't think he knew who was open or not open for any illness that was not possibly positive COVID-19

I hope you get some treatment soon!  It's not easy to get more than the basic treatment these days I know. My tooth is feeling a little funky and all dentists here are closed unless one is in "excruciating pain". 

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1 hour ago, Moira Timmerman said:

The propensity for the recent protests to turn violent has me concerned as well.  We have had looting and vandalism the last two nights in the downtown area of the  largest city in my county. 

I've tried not to watch the news lately and wasn't aware the protests had become so widespread.  Just got this email alert from FedeX:

Monday, June 1, 2020
 
FedEx is closely monitoring this situation across the U.S. Local restrictions and curfews in certain areas across the U.S. may cause unavoidable service delays. FedEx is committed to providing service to the best of our ability and will continue to do so in areas that are accessible during this time.

 

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4 hours ago, Moira Timmerman said:

Fairre, I do hope that you will be able to get the medical care you need soon.  I think that whether physician offices are open or not, whether or not they are seeing patients in the office or just by video conferencing, etc., is probably dependent on County guidelines as well as local medical association / physician groups guidelines. 

Thank you.  I told Luna in IM I have spoken with a nurse and said "I don't think there are any Ear, Nose and Throat doctors open" and she said "Correct".  So I asked if my doctor would consider an in-home nurse to come and check me and perhaps to do a culture of what is growing in my nose by sending a lab personnel.  The E.R. could give me generic Catch-All antibiotic which is usually their course of action, but my doctor could have given me generic Catch-All antibiotics too.  Which probably should have been done to rule out or rule in whether antibiotics have any affect at all.  Now I wait to hear from my doctor's nurse further on this.    

As far as the WHO, I found this article.

I think it is important to read it.  

https://www.cfr.org/blog/who-and-china-dereliction-duty

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3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I hope you get some treatment soon!  It's not easy to get more than the basic treatment these days I know. My tooth is feeling a little funky and all dentists here are closed unless one is in "excruciating pain". 

Thanks Luna, and you too!

As to how this virus got all over the world like this is not normal.  How could this virus just show up everywhere like this?   It doesn't make sense nor contain logic as to how that could happen.  

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13 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

Aka, Captain 'tight pants'. :) Captain of an originally old cargo ship, called Serenity(Or, as River put it, "Midbulk transport, standard radion-accelerator core, classcode 03-K64, Firefly"). Best Captain Ever.

Darmok on the ocean, Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, Darmok and Jalad on the ocean. Picard and Tight Pants at El-Adrel.

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1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Darmok on the ocean, Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, Darmok and Jalad on the ocean. Picard and Tight Pants at El-Adrel.

 

Is it bad that I immediately recognize the TNG paraphrase? 😛 

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