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That's a good observation, Molly, and one I'd not really thought about before.  There are two approaches to it: socialize the profits, too (the Liberal approach) and just say No to the government bailouts (the Conservative approach).  It sort of looks like the latter is happening to the cruise line industry, for example.

Another point is that, with the human population what it is (and still growing!) "unfettered" growth causes the Tragedy of the Commons to scale up to encompass the entire planet.

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Fear will kill us before any illness ever should. Practice social distancing, wash your hands thoroughly and often. Get lots of rest and look after your general health. Covid-19 is potential

I am, but I have every reason to be, and I think it would be extremely abnormal, problematic and likely damaging if I wasn't.  Just as I think the overall lack of fear in far too many is precisely tha

I know the news seems terrifying, Chilli (may I call you that?). There is tremendous uncertainty around the world right now, but still a lot we can do individually and collectively to care for ourselv

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29 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

There are two approaches to it: socialize the profits, too (the Liberal approach) and just say No to the government bailouts (the Conservative approach).  It sort of looks like the latter is happening to the cruise line industry, for example.

Well, the cruise lines insist on sailing under other flags specifically to avoid US taxes, thus, IMO anyway, they do not deserve US tax payer money for any sort of bailout.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

the cruise lines insist on sailing under other flags specifically to avoid US taxes,

Oh taxes are only part of it. Their flags of convenience let them skate on SOLAS rules, working conditions for the crew, pollution control rules, maintenance and inspection requirements and a whole lot of other things to skim off more of that tax-free profit. If folks knew what a filthy industry it was nobody would ever set foot on a cruise ship again.

Let the whole lot of 'em go to Panama or wherever their vessels are flagged for "government help"

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4 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Well, the cruise lines insist on sailing under other flags specifically to avoid US taxes, thus, IMO anyway, they do not deserve US tax payer money for any sort of bailout.

this happens with taxes in other industries also. Inventing legalistic paper trails with the express purpose of avoiding income taxes in country/place of origin. The most common practice is registering the commercial entity in a low tax haven elsewhere while continuing to operate in the country/place of origin where the bulk of sales occur

if not outright avoidance then a paper trail which allows the entity to defer paying taxes indefinitely. Most of the big tech companies do this for example. Which when the deferred amounts pile up significantly, the sheer sum of the piles gives the owners leverage to reduce the amount of tax payable in the country/place of origin. This happened recently in the USA. The owners were granted a discount on the rate they were due to pay, by the political leaders

the political leaders thought was that a lesser amount actually received is better than none. When the thought should be to legislate to stop the practice. Which is the job of a politician, to legislate in the best interests of the electorate/nation

making tax laws and then not enforcing them is not in the best interests of the electorate/nation. Cutting deals (no criminal liability agreements) with some citizens/entities and not others is not what the State should be doing


just on the no-help for non-taxpayers

there is an idea circulating that the amount of a State bailout to an entity could be capped at the amount of tax paid by the entity over X previous years. Effectively any amount extended by the State to an entity to help them out is equivalent to the help the entity extends to the State during the good times for the entity and its stakeholders

and the extended amount is added to the tax bill owed. Its a tax lien, against which the entity can borrow elsewhere. A borrowing which exposes them to commercial lending scrutiny. The State doesn't decide the commercial viability of the loan, the lender does. To help stop the looters then change the law so the tax department is always the first creditor. In every situation, not just in this situation

the reason for this is when a company does go bust, the employees, contractors and small suppliers are typically last in the queue to get paid. Upon not getting paid many of them end up down at the welfare office for financial help, which the State covers the costs of. With the State tax department first in line to get paid then some of the welfare monies can be recovered

 

Edited by Mollymews
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Based on the latest stats reported regarding the deaths in New York, I'm now more worried about my husband than myself.  I have asthma and COPD, but he has high blood pressure (and is male).

 

Of the 4,758 deaths in New York since the first on March 14, 61% were men and 39% were women, the state Department of Health reported on its new data portal.

In addition, 63% of the deaths were among those age 70 and older, while 7% of the cases were those 49 and younger.

And 4,089 of those who died had at least one other chronic disease, the records showed:
The leading underlying illness was hypertension, which showed up in 55% of the deaths.
Next was diabetes, which was diagnosed in 1,755 deaths, or about 37% of the cases.
Other top illnesses found in those who died from coronavirus were hyperlipidemia; coronary artery disease; renal disease and dementia.

 

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 No matter that Germany, Greece and Netherlands do the same, I believe more will follow.

i dont know and have no clue what other countries and governers do for protection, but sure are less fool and dump , Trump is

As for here in Greece where am i, i have to say we are better that every other country is...

we were careful,  We followed instructions and we are and remain the country with the fewest deaths ... ( 175 deaths untill now...hope no more )

Quote

PLEASE DON'T REFER GREECE AGAIN UNLESS YOU KNOW BETTER OR YOU HAVE PROOF THAT WE HAVE CARELESS GOVERNERS

DONT WANNA SOUND I DONT CARE, BUT SAW GREECE IN THE COMMENTS AND GOT IRRITATED

 

HOPE NEIGHBOURS ITALIAN TO COME SOON WELL AND EVERYONE ELSE EVERYWHERE.....AND HOPE ANY DRUG OR VACCINE TO BE  SOMETHING TRUE, NOT MAKE PPL AS EXPEREMENTS

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, DarkUnicorN said:

As for here in Greece where am i, i have to say we are better that every other country is...

we were careful,  We followed instructions and we are and remain the country with the fewest deaths ... ( 175 deaths untill now...hope no more )

TOTAL deaths does not really tell the whole story.  I mean, if your population was 1000 (example only here), then 175 is not as great as a country that has a population of 5000 and only 175 deaths.

This page -- one of many statistical pages available on the internet -- sorted on the "Deaths per million" column.  Greece ranks 96th:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

This chart puts Greece at 111th (after eliminating those with no value for 'deaths per million':
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?" \l "countries#countries

I imagine other charts will show other rankings, but they'll all be similar.  So I'd have a hard time saying that Greece is "better than every other country" in this regard.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

TOTAL deaths does not really tell the whole story.  I mean, if your population was 1000 (example only here), then 175 is not as great as a country that has a population of 5000 and only 175 deaths.

This page -- one of many statistical pages available on the internet -- sorted on the "Deaths per million" column.  Greece ranks 96th:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

This chart puts Greece at 111th (after eliminating those with no value for 'deaths per million':
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?" \l "countries#countries

I imagine other charts will show other rankings, but they'll all be similar.  So I'd have a hard time saying that Greece is "better than every other country" in this regard.

I AM GREEK I LIVE HERE... 

I KNOW ONLY MY COUNTRY, 

WE KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON AROUND 

ONE EXAMPLE I LEAVE ON A ISLAND OF 50.000 PPL (WITHOUT TOURIST SEASON) AND WE HAD AND HAVE NONE SICK  THE ISLAND CALLED PAROS, IS LOCATED IN CYCLADES GREECE, WHICH CYCLADES SOURROUNDED BY 20 ISLANDS AND HAS MORE THAN 150.000 PPL AND NONE IS SICK YET....

THE MORE COLLECTIONS OF ISLAND AROUND GREECE , EVEN ONES WITH IMMIGRATES, WHO ARE LUCKILY DONT HAVE ANY CASE OF COVIRUS YET....

 THE ONLY HITS, UNFORTUNATELY WAS IN MAILAND GREECE....FROM MACEDONIA TO ATHENS.....AND FEW IN CRETE!  😞

AND I REFERED ONLY FOR THE DEADS, THE POOR SOULS WHO LOST THE FIGHT WITH THIS...FLU

MANY MORE SAVED AND MANY STILL SICK.....

I DONT FOLLOW STATISTICS TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON!!

Edited by DarkUnicorN
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Posted (edited)
On 4/7/2020 at 7:15 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

Based on the latest stats reported regarding the deaths in New York, I'm now more worried about my husband than myself.  I have asthma and COPD, but he has high blood pressure (and is male).

 

Of the 4,758 deaths in New York since the first on March 14, 61% were men and 39% were women, the state Department of Health reported on its new data portal.

In addition, 63% of the deaths were among those age 70 and older, while 7% of the cases were those 49 and younger.

And 4,089 of those who died had at least one other chronic disease, the records showed:
The leading underlying illness was hypertension, which showed up in 55% of the deaths.
Next was diabetes, which was diagnosed in 1,755 deaths, or about 37% of the cases.
Other top illnesses found in those who died from coronavirus were hyperlipidemia; coronary artery disease; renal disease and dementia.

 

WISH U THE BEST , I HAVE FAMILY IN USA AND ONE IS NURSE IN NEW YORK AND THE OTHER IS IN PHILLY.

I HAVE ASTHMA TOO AND WORRIED AND I AM AN EMPLOYEE IN A MARKET , WEAR MASK AND GLOVES AND  SURVE PPL EVERDAY...I SCARE MUCH BUT I TRY THINK POSSITIVE

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2 minutes ago, DarkUnicorN said:

 

 

I DONT FOLLOW STATISTICS TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON!

 

 

Maybe if you did, you wouldn't make clueless statements like 'Greece is better than others' and 'Greece has less deaths than anyone'.

And as I said:  TOTAL deaths are really pretty irrelevant.

 

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DO U KNOW WHAT IS THE MOST SCARIER OF THEM ALL

THEY SAY THAN HEAT DOES ALLOW FOR VIRUS TO GROW, BUT WHAT HAPPENS AFTER SEASON ENDS...

EVEN IF U DONT GET SICK THAT MUCH THEY SAY U HAVE MORE HOPE AND LESS DANGER....

 CHINE YES IS LOCKDOWN, SICK PPL GOT SICK AGAIN....ITS NOT LIKE  A CHILD SICKNESS THAN COMES ONLY ONE TIME....

FOR LAST TWO WEEKS WE HAVE HAVE 32 DEGREE HEAT HERE I DONT KNOW IF ITS GOD OR NOT!

IS IT HOPE OR HIDE BEHING ...HOPE!!

 

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This is NOT a dig at people who have English as a second language. I stink at languages and am impressed by anyone who can manage it. However, it probably isn't wise to get in an argument, knickers in a twist, in a snit, whatever, when one isn't fluent in reading or writing to someone in their own language. It. Just. Isn't. Time after time I have witnessed blow ups in Forums and elsewhere in SL when people just simply do not understand each other. One Dutch chap, for instance, has been too proud many a time to admit that translation was an issue in his being out of sorts. The fallout has been a pain in the butt throughout the Forum.

Just sayin.

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remember fear is good for the human,  we use it to know what not to do, where to take care and when to protect ourselves, is normal that you're afraid since this is not a normal state and the unknown is usually scary, but you can't let the fear beats you, you must continue, maybe in a different way, like take care of yourself, do some excercise at home, eat well, and try to keep your mind busy, actually i feel a little bit refreshed in SL because irl i watch a lot of news and to disctract myself from them well SL is very good for the job, there are some good news too, people helping people, from everywhere in a lot of ways, so try to not worry... i'm not sure if i'm still talking about the topic xD but yeah, try to calm yourself a bit and enjoy life the way you can while the quarantine continues n.<

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Yes!  Be afraid.  Be very afraid.  The Chinese have unleashed a terrible injustice on the WORLD.  The WHO have not done a thing to protect Americans, Europeans, Africans, Antarcticans or anybody else but China.  You have everything in the world to be afraid of.  EVERYTHING.   I listen to Dr. Fauci:  we are all going to die sooner or later.  And I believe him.  l would run but there is no place to run; I guess you know that and that is why you are afraid.  Me too.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Storm Clarence said:

Yes!  Be afraid.  Be very afraid.  The Chinese have unleashed a terrible injustice on the WORLD.  The WHO have not done a thing to protect Americans, Europeans, Africans, Antarcticans or anybody else but China.  You have everything in the world to be afraid of.  EVERYTHING.   I listen to Dr. Fauci:  we are all going to die sooner or later.  And I believe him.  l would run but there is no place to run; I guess you know that and that is why you are afraid.  Me too.

Could you explain in more detail why you are afraid of China and the WHO?  

I am afraid of Fall and Winter.  I am afraid of someone telling me "go here", "go there", "move about" and then say to me "see, there was nothing to be scared about".  And, then Fall and Winter is moving along and then I'm told "see, we told you there was nothing to fear at all, everything is fine, isn't it?"

And, then, guess what...BOOM!  Boom and it's completely and totally out of control and right next door.  I'm afraid of the lies and/or letting my guard down.  I'm planning on gathering supplies so I can stay in for the Fall and Winter and have enough supplies until next Spring.  I'm not trusting this "see, there is nothing to be scared of" crap because they don't know anything much at all and talk a lot of bs quite frankly.  Who are the "they" I'm speaking about - governments and the media that runs the world with it's propaganda as per the usual.  I don't trust them with my life now.  My own government.  

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4 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Could you explain in more detail why you are afraid of China and the WHO?  

I am afraid of Fall and Winter. 

 

Yes I can.  The Wuhan virus.  It spread nowhere throughout China but Wuhan.  Except, of course, the rest of the world.  Over 1 million dead.  How afraid should I be?

Fall and Winter is our issue too.  The Chinese do not control the weather except for their global warming practices that are destroying our planet.  They are the major polluters of our world.  So, I guess, I am afraid of fall and winter too.  Be afraid. Be very afraid.

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19 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

.  I am afraid of someone telling me "go here", "go there", "move about" and then say to me "see, there was nothing to be scared about". 

 

Exactly!  WHO has done just that.  Except, of course, but in China.  It's not safe anywhere but in China.  According to WHO. 

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13 minutes ago, Storm Clarence said:

Yes I can.  The Wuhan virus.  It spread nowhere throughout China but Wuhan.  Except, of course, the rest of the world.  Over 1 million dead.  How afraid should I be?

Fall and Winter is our issue too.  The Chinese do not control the weather except for their global warming practices that are destroying our planet.  They are the major polluters of our world.  So, I guess, I am afraid of fall and winter too.  Be afraid. Be very afraid.

A lot you wrote here and your other posts.

Regarding Dr. Fauci in your other post, Dr. Fauci says we have four months to get prepared:  June, July, August and September.  So, I started already.  I will have enough soaps for body and household cleaning, shampoos, conditioners, creams for my skin, sponges, first aid, nail and pedi items, dental cleaning items, most of all my coffee items plus other things to last until next May or June of 2021.  I have gathered some items already and ordered the rest online so I have about 80% done already.  I'm only going into groceries stores if I have too but I've learned to order online...it's not all that expensive because some items are actually much cheaper and it averages out.   So, with online/curbside, I'm not going to grocery stores come Fall and Winter.  I'm not going anywhere unless I'm dragged out of here pretty much.   I currently am not working, not even part-time right now but my personal income is my business.  

As far as WHO, according to the President of the United States, America will not be sending any monies to support the WHO any longer.  As far as I am concerned, the WHO are gone out of my life now. 

As far as what China did or did not do I don't know if China would start killing people all over the world.  What would they hope to gain?  And why would they hate people everywhere?  Not to mention it mostly kills grandma and grandpa.  I don't think China hates grandparents all over the world.  

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8 hours ago, Storm Clarence said:

Yes!  Be afraid.  Be very afraid.  The Chinese have unleashed a terrible injustice on the WORLD.  The WHO have not done a thing to protect Americans, Europeans, Africans, Antarcticans or anybody else but China.  You have everything in the world to be afraid of.  EVERYTHING.   I listen to Dr. Fauci:  we are all going to die sooner or later.  And I believe him.  l would run but there is no place to run; I guess you know that and that is why you are afraid.  Me too.

 

Dr. Fauci is right: we really are all going to die, sooner or later. But I kinda knew that already since childhood. :P As for Corona, about 0.8% of ppl under the age of 44 will die from Corona... and then only wen affected, of course.**

As for your absurd paranoia about China and the WHO, all I can say it, I never met a real Trumpian, until I read your posts here. And yes, I'm scared alright.

And the WHO? All they've done is having initially been perhaps a little too (outwardly) friendly towards China, in terms of not immediately blasting them to hell. I would probably have done the same thing. China is a de facto Dictatorship, secretive in nature: if you want their cooperation, especially on sharing information, you need to tread carefully. Meanwhile, your own Trump has been downplaying Corona until late April. "We have it totally under control." Yeah, no.

 

** When the disease is approached properly, and not allowed to proliferate unchecked.

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Here is something to think about  - the flu is much more deadly than covid is and kills hundreds of thousands of people every year but we don't shut down the world every flu season and there are over 30000 people who die early day from famine  worldwide.  Just a little perspective... 

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   Oh, don't worry. If the virus doesn't kill us, the environment will, and if the environment doesn't kill us, it'll be the fall of civilization and most likely death of at least most of us because of Y2K kicking in two decades too late, and if that doesn't kill us, it'll be the end of time as prophecised by some ancient super-civilization that probably got their smarts from aliens and carved a calendar into stone that only goes as far as MMXX X XX (that's year-month-day, by the by, which is how civilized people write dates!).

   Okay, so some of what I just mentioned was rather silly - but I only said it to point out that people are silly and have a tendency to-- cry apocalypse. I mean, people seriously have been saying those things and been genuinely afraid of it; Covid-19 is real (and still auto-corrects into 'oviduct'!), but should you listen to the usual doomsayers or to the men and women who are working on finding vaccines and solutions? 

1 minute ago, salymmoonsong said:

Just a little perspective... 

   It might also be less stressful an experience if people didn't constantly spread disinformation and rumours: https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

   The flu has been around for a very long time and we have a pretty good idea of it, but to propose that Covid-19 is in any way insignificant 'because the flu is worse' is just ... Silly. As for comparing it to famine, that really is apples and oranges. 

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