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7 minutes ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

I gave up.  If she won't do anything to help herself, what's the point? She knows what she needs to do and knows how to do it and it is trivially simple to do.  So ... I gave up worrying.

You’re right. I believe that if there is any truth to her story, there is something essential being left out such as it being some sort of group home.

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Fear will kill us before any illness ever should. Practice social distancing, wash your hands thoroughly and often. Get lots of rest and look after your general health. Covid-19 is potential

I am, but I have every reason to be, and I think it would be extremely abnormal, problematic and likely damaging if I wasn't.  Just as I think the overall lack of fear in far too many is precisely tha

I know the news seems terrifying, Chilli (may I call you that?). There is tremendous uncertainty around the world right now, but still a lot we can do individually and collectively to care for ourselv

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4 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

You’re right. I believe that if there is any truth to her story, there is something essential being left out such as it being some sort of group home.

Something is off. I mean... constantly cleaning an apartment building? That has to be enormously expensive. Not to mention overkill and completely unnecessary.

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27 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

She STILL has you locked in?! Yet she’s apparently going out to shop?!

What.

The.

Four Letter Word?!?!?!?

She is likely poisoning you all with the cleaning if whatever she’s using is causing your eyes and nose to dry out AND YOUR NOSE TO BLEED.

DO SOMETHING!

Call the police, the mayor, the housing authority, the media... FFS, stand up for your damn self before this lunatic kills you all.

We are not locked in now but we are still asked to not go outside at all and if we do we can consider ourselves evicted.   We were locked in for about 3 days, Friday, Saturday and Sunday.  It was the first Friday after the lockdown was issued for California which was a Thursday.  

Now, we can go out but there are consequences such as she has said not to expect to be let back in.

Since it's the end of the "15 Days"...I asked her when we could go out...I could see on her face she is considering it.  But, then she asked what I needed and I told her and she offered to get it for me.

It's not entirely her fault I haven't protested.  

I want a mask to go to the store because I am now having some fear of it which I did not tell my landlady.  I have a cloth scarf I can wear and hand sanitizer...but I do need to be able to go out pretty soon before I develop too many fears of it.  I just feel I need some kind of protection to wear and then when I get back I will shower and change clothes.

As far as all of you worrying about it, Rhonda is right.  It's a situation that just went nuts and there isn't much you can do about it.  But, if I caught the coronavirus by my going out, I would feel it was my fault if I gave it to anybody.

I do need to go out soon though so as not to develop too many fears of it.  Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, is all I can say.  I feel dammed if I do and dammed if I don't.  

But yeah, the cleaning is a bit much.  I told her it might be all the chemical cleaning drying out my nose.  It could be pollen too.   She offered to get it for me.  

The world has just changed.  

 

 

Edited by FairreLilette
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For personal/family care if you don't have a mask a hanky sized high gsm cotton cloth or natural fibre cloth could be used to cough
into to ensure family members are protected.
Having recent vaccination and a slight flu from it I have been doing this rather than wear a face mask when with family.
The I spray the cloth with isopropyl alcohol immediately to make sure any potential virus is killed.
It dries quickly so I re-alcohol it to wipe any surfaces like door handles, fridge or light switches I know I have touched on the way
back to my section of the house.
I'm definitely keen to kill a virus outright immediately rather than try and filter it, even with my P3 rated mask.
From the research I have done this seems to be correct.
Remember to make your own decisions based on your own research or advice from doctors/authorities.

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2 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

...I try to be super conscious of the cleaning/touching rules when outside my home and when returning to it. Once inside, and after washing down all the potentially infected surfaces, I return to living like a bum.

Regular, daily cleaning is still a good idea.  It can pick up stuff your spot disinfecting missed, or places that got secondary contamination (You know...like when you are working with a fine sticky powder like graphite?  It gets on everything you put it on...and a heck of a lot of places you didn't.)

On masks, I agree with Beth that no one should deprive a medical worker of needed protection.  But anyone can improvise a mask that is reasonably effective, using a couple of layers of T-shirt material.  No coyote-fur parkas needed!  The Resident Geek has a full face NIOSH N99 respirator for his workshop projects.  I'm gonna make him wear it the next time he ventures out to the grocery store.

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29 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Regular, daily cleaning is still a good idea.  It can pick up stuff your spot disinfecting missed, or places that got secondary contamination (You know...like when you are working with a fine sticky powder like graphite?  It gets on everything you put it on...and a heck of a lot of places you didn't.)

I'm working off the current guidance that COVID-19 survives no more than three days on any surface (minutes to hours on most), and that I've done a pretty good job of cleaning myself and anything else that enters the house. The only things entering these days are foodstuffs, and my regular kitchen cleaning routine should handle that, after my initial scrub down of packages before putting them in the pantry and fridge. Outside of those additional precautions, I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary.

If it were discovered that COVID-19 is as resilient as prions, I'd take a vastly different approach to house cleaning.

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Don't forget that some of us had masks already. When you suffer asthma, hay fever and are sensitive to chemicals & dust...….we have a mask each. Apparently those with an "easy breathe out valve" are not much good, as they don't stop exhaling "stuff". But I felt a lot easier at the supermarket this morning in my mask and sky blue nitrile gloves.

Even though I couldn't match an outfit to my gloves, because apart from faded jeans, I don't have much sky blue stuff. Just an old gardening top, which has seen better days.

Who else wears clothes full of holes around the house??????

September 2020 look...……….

 

SL24.png

Edited by BelindaN
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3 hours ago, BelindaN said:

Don't forget that some of us had masks already. When you suffer asthma, hay fever and are sensitive to chemicals & dust...….we have a mask each. Apparently those with an "easy breathe out valve" are not much good, as they don't stop exhaling "stuff". But I felt a lot easier at the supermarket this morning in my mask and sky blue nitrile gloves.

Even though I couldn't match an outfit to my gloves, because apart from faded jeans, I don't have much sky blue stuff. Just an old gardening top, which has seen better days.

Who else wears clothes full of holes around the house??????

September 2020 look...……….

 

SL24.png

I know people around here that look like that when there is no crisis going on..

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A Cautionary Note on PPE:

If/when you wear gloves and/or a mask to venture out...

  • Don them in your personal environs (home, car)
  • The second you leave your personal environs, act as if your gloved hands were covered in wet paint
    • Don't touch anything you don't want to get paint on (face, doors, kids, pets)
    • If you must, and it's a surface belonging to you (car door, keys, steering wheel) disinfect it when done with it
  • Remove PPE before re-entering your personal environs
    • Remove without touching the outside of it.  Turn gloves inside out as you remove them.
    • Remove gloves first, then mask.  Avoid touching outer surface of mask.  Handle by straps only.
    • Place used PPE in a plastic bag, dispose of it
  • Optional, but recommended
    • When you re-enter your home, remove outer clothes, place in wash, before doing anything else
    • Go shower

PPE is not a magic shield.  It is there to keep virus particles from getting in your nose, mouth, or eyes.  Treat it in such a way that it can do that job.

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55 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

A Cautionary Note on PPE:

If/when you wear gloves and/or a mask to venture out...

  • Don them in your personal environs (home, car)
  • The second you leave your personal environs, act as if your gloved hands were covered in wet paint
    • Don't touch anything you don't want to get paint on (face, doors, kids, pets)
    • If you must, and it's a surface belonging to you (car door, keys, steering wheel) disinfect it when done with it
  • Remove PPE before re-entering your personal environs
    • Remove without touching the outside of it.  Turn gloves inside out as you remove them.
    • Remove gloves first, then mask.  Avoid touching outer surface of mask.  Handle by straps only.
    • Place used PPE in a plastic bag, dispose of it
  • Optional, but recommended
    • When you re-enter your home, remove outer clothes, place in wash, before doing anything else
    • Go shower

PPE is not a magic shield.  It is there to keep virus particles from getting in your nose, mouth, or eyes.  Treat it in such a way that it can do that job.

In addition, remove your shoes before walking into your house. Most of those droplets people are sneezing and coughing out end up on the ground... and then you walk on 'em. In the last three weeks, I haven't set foot outside of my yard or car, so my shoes aren't a vector. If I were to go to the market, I'd wear shoes with a smooth sole with no li'l nooks and crannies for bugs to hide in. Then I'd drop a disinfectant wipe on my garage welcome mat and wipe my shoes on it before kicking them off and stepping into the house. If I didn't have wipes, I'd move the welcome mat outside so I could leave my shoes, sole up, in the sun. I'd probably also doff my outer clothes and shoot them straight into the washer.

Even though my hair is short, it's a perfect filter for grabbing icky bits out of the air. So, I'd take a shower, keeping my face pointed into the shower stream with my hair behind, to not get my hair's rinse water in my eyes, nose, and mouth. It may be that none of this is necessary, but it's easy to do.

Then, after exercising all those precautions, I'd go back to being a bum.

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3 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

In addition, remove your shoes before walking into your house. Most of those droplets people are sneezing and coughing out end up on the ground... and then you walk on 'em. In the last three weeks, I haven't set foot outside of my yard or car, so my shoes aren't a vector. If I were to go to the market, I'd wear shoes with a smooth sole with no li'l nooks and crannies for bugs to hide in. Then I'd drop a disinfectant wipe on my garage welcome mat and wipe my shoes on it before kicking them off and stepping into the house. If I didn't have wipes, I'd move the welcome mat outside so I could leave my shoes, sole up, in the sun. I'd probably also doff my outer clothes and shoot them straight into the washer.

Even though my hair is short, it's a perfect filter for grabbing icky bits out of the air. So, I'd take a shower, keeping my face pointed into the shower stream with my hair behind, to not get my hair's rinse water in my eyes, nose, and mouth. It may be that none of this is necessary, but it's easy to do.

Then, after exercising all those precautions, I'd go back to being a bum.

Now I'm getting even more scared than I was...

I figured that even if I bring virus particles in through the soles of my shoes, they'll stay on the floor and eventually die off, and I'm not in the habit of touching the floor, so the risk there is negligible (even for somebody as paranoid as me) - have I got that wrong?

Also, can the virus get on clothes just from being outside? Is it that bad???

I have so many questions... sigh.

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27 minutes ago, Arquet said:

Now I'm getting even more scared than I was...

I figured that even if I bring virus particles in through the soles of my shoes, they'll stay on the floor and eventually die off, and I'm not in the habit of touching the floor, so the risk there is negligible (even for somebody as paranoid as me) - have I got that wrong?

Also, can the virus get on clothes just from being outside? Is it that bad???

I have so many questions... sigh.

I don't think the virus is gonna jump off the floor to get us. The precautions I'm taking are super easy for me, taking mere seconds to do. Meanwhile the li'l buggers are just waiting for all the stupid things I do without thinking, like touching my face.

Some of these precautions, like washing my hair so the rinse water doesn't run into my mouth, I also do after spraying pesticides/herbicides around my yard. I also wear shoes with easy to clean shoes so I'm not constantly having to clean mud out of nooks and crannies. I hate cleaning so I'm always looking for ways to avoid it. If I stop the dirt at the door, I don't have to remove it from inside.

The garage entry to my house is in the laundry. The first door in the hallway to the house is my downstairs bathroom with shower. It's super easy for me to clean up  before entering bumville.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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You're not wrong, exactly.  You're correct that the risk is low.  After all, that's one reason the CDC has been suggesting that people not wear gloves and masks, because the "risk is low".

Or so they have said.  However, we're seeing lots of stories of people who thought they took all the right precautions and got it anyway.  So, Maddy and I are simply excercising what the politicians like to say is "an abundance of caution."  We all have a lot of questions about this critter, and all the answers are not yet in.

Dang it, now you got me interested.  How low IS the risk?  Well, we can play with some numbers.  Bear in mind that almost all of these are simply guesses (not all by me).

60% of the population may eventually catch it.  p(sick) = 0.6
Overall mortality rate is 3% (This one is really a guess, since we don't know how many people have it and either don't get sick at all or don't report it, and the death rate for various categories -- older people, people with other conditions -- also varies a lot.) p(death) = 0.03
Probability I will catch it and die = p(sick) x p(death) = 0.6 x 0.03 = 0.018, or less than two chances in a hundred.
Let's say social distancing/self isolation improves my odds by 50%.  Now p(die) is 0.5 x 0.018 = 0.009, less than one chance in a hundred.
Let's say when I do have to go out, I wear PPE and that improves the odds by another 50%.  Now we are at 0.0045, around one chance in two hundred.

As you can see, the odds are pretty good that you WILL live through this, even if you take NO precautions.  However, you can improve your odds a great deal by being sensible and mindful.  Also, although it is still better than even odds that you will eventually get it, the longer you can delay that, the better your survival chances are...because as time passes, we'll pass the point at which medical resources are being overwhelmed, AND the better the odds are that effective treatments will be developed.  Time is your friend.

Edited by Lindal Kidd
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8 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

As you can see, the odds are pretty good that you WILL live through this, even if you take NO precautions.  However, you can improve your odds a great deal by being sensible and mindful.  Also, although it is still better than even odds that you will eventually get it, the longer you can delay that, the better your survival chances are...because as time passes, we'll pass the point at which medical resources are being overwhelmed, AND the better the odds are that effective treatments will be developed.  Time is your friend.

Ahhh, it was really interesting to see it laid out like that - thanks. OTOH, odds mean nothing if one ends up being in that one in a hundred... 😏

Yes, it's about buying time. 

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according to NIWA our (NZ) national science institute, traffic nitrogen oxide levels have gone way down where I live in just a week.  Down 50% in the central city and over 90% down in the west of the city. Some days the monitors out west have recorded effectively zero

so this is something good that is coming out of all this

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1 hour ago, Mollymews said:

according to NIWA our (NZ) national science institute, traffic nitrogen oxide levels have gone way down where I live in just a week.  Down 50% in the central city and over 90% down in the west of the city. Some days the monitors out west have recorded effectively zero

so this is something good that is coming out of all this

I have been hoping that this catastrophe would have this exact silver lining, that the environment and get cleaned up at least. Of course Trump just removed a lot of regulations of pollution.They are other positive possible effects. I never saw so many people out in my neighborhood before. And I think there is a realization that capitalism, unregulated, it’s not gonna solve our problems. Isn’t it crystal clear now that survival depends on cooperation? I am also suspecting that a lot of what Has seemed carved in stone might be open to amendment for the better. If the unimaginable happens, then anything can happen.

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There's this thing folks don't get about probabilities. In a situation like this they are tools for assessing risk. You do what you can to lower your odds of "bad stuff happenning to me" but remember that the universe is pretty good at rolling critical hits. If, even when you've lowered the odds to the point that you consider it an "acceptable risk", the "bad stuff" happens anyway then it sucks to be you but that doesn't mean your precautions didn't work, it just means that you caught the golden BB. By taking your precautions you still improved the overall result for the entire population, even if you ended up as a data point in the "not so good" column.

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17 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

 I think there is a realization that capitalism, unregulated, it’s not gonna solve our problems. Isn’t it crystal clear now that survival depends on cooperation? I am also suspecting that a lot of what Has seemed carved in stone might be open to amendment for the better. If the unimaginable happens, then anything can happen.

what i think is happening is ordinary normal people are beginning to realize that unfettered markets driven by self-interest aren't what they are all cracked up to be. That they lead to the privatising of profits and socialising of losses, due to unfettered self-interest showing itself to be incapable of dealing with large-scale catastrophe

we started to become aware of this during the 2008 recession. At that time our political and business leaders excused the State bailouts (socialisation of market losses) as an aberration. That with the lessons learned and with prudent management this aberration would not occur again

now we have have been hit with a pandemic, the market is again rushing to the State to bail them out. No lessons were learned and prudent management didn't happen

so is not an aberration. State bailouts (socialisation of losses) is a normal behaviour of unfettered self-interest markets

 

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