Madelaine McMasters Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said: Yes, this. Plus, I have read that where the person was not tested either before or after death, the cause of death is not being listed as COVID-19. I've a cousin who was found dead in her apartment last week. She was 85 and in poor health overall. She'd been out and about prior, with no particular complaints, according to closer family members. She was not one to enlist the help of others, nor to communicate much with friends and family. No tests are being done, so it'll never be known if she succumbed to COVID-19. 1 minute ago, FairreLilette said: I think it may be time to cover our noses. Viruses seem to thrive in moisture...like our nose, mouth, throat, and maybe lungs. Perhaps lungs are "moist". I think the potential CDC advisory is more aimed at using masks to prevent infected people from ejecting virus laden droplets during coughs and/or sneezes. COVID-19 is a respiratory (lung) virus. The nose, mouth, eyes (via the sinuses), and throat are all conduits to the lungs. It's not so much the moisture that's the culprit. COVID-19 hates soapy water. It's that the vulnerable tissues happen to be wet. Similarly, blood born pathogens care less about water than the access to infectable blood cells, which are of course floating in, and filled with... water. Fortunately, human bodies do a pretty good job of keeping the circulatory system isolated from the outside world. Since the lungs must exchange gases with that outside world on a regular basis, and the GI tract must take in fuel and water from the outside, most diseases enter us via air, food, and water. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: I wonder who will pays for masks for those of us who don't have any and can't afford to buy them even if they were available in the stores. What will they do about those of us who can not wear them to begin with? Damn things give me a rash on top of making it harder for me to breathe. Guess I'm just screwed again huh. The CDC is actually not sure if they truly want to tell people to wear masks because they don't want the average person trying to buy up medical masks, which are already in extremely short supply. They are considering recommending that people wear a bandana or other cloth covering the mouth and nose. My husband has some of those masks that folks use during home construction type work - the ones that supposedly help filter out dust and such. I can't ever breath worth a damn when I have one of those on. It is almost as bad as having my lungs full of the darn dust. I do still have some scarves upstairs - the fashion kind that I wore with blouses many years ago. I suppose those would likely work as a bandana-type mask, but I'd likely still be gasping for air trying to breath with one on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolig Loon Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: I've a cousin who was found dead in her apartment last week. Any death is a loss, and the more painful when it is someone close. You have my sympathy, Maddy. 9 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: I think the potential CDC advisory is more aimed at using masks to prevent infected people from ejecting virus laden droplets during coughs and/or sneezes. Yes, that appears to be the direction of the discussion in the health community. There is nothing like a consensus about what to recommend, however. There are just too many competing priorities and there's still serious debate about whether CoVid-19 is airborne or spread primarily by droplets. As long as there is a shortage of PPE for health care professionals, the best answer for the rest of us is still to stay at home, away from other people, and save the masks for people who really need them. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: The CDC is actually not sure if they truly want to tell people to wear masks because they don't want the average person trying to buy up medical masks, which are already in extremely short supply. They are considering recommending that people wear a bandana or other cloth covering the mouth and nose. My husband has some of those masks that folks use during home construction type work - the ones that supposedly help filter out dust and such. I can't ever breath worth a damn when I have one of those on. It is almost as bad as having my lungs full of the darn dust. I do still have some scarves upstairs - the fashion kind that I wore with blouses many years ago. I suppose those would likely work as a bandana-type mask, but I'd likely still be gasping for air trying to breath with one on. I did read the article. lol I can't put anything over my face that way. Wearing a knit cap makes my forehead itch like crazy. Material makes no difference. If it touches the skin of my face it will cause a rash if left in place. I can't even allow a scarf wrapped around my neck to touch so when I do try to cover my nose to breathe in extreme (for me) cold I have to do it in such a way that it doesn't touch the skin and that defeats the whole purpose of covering my nose. Which is why I love my old naval flight jacket (surplus). There is a drawstring that you use to close up the hole without it touching your face and leaves just enough room for snow goggles. But it doesn't cover the nose. And I hate to ruin the coyote fur by spraying it with Lysol and stuff. Only difference between this one and mine is mine is navy blue with the orange lining instead of olive drab with whatever color lining they used for the olive drab. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: The CDC is actually not sure if they truly want to tell people to wear masks because they don't want the average person trying to buy up medical masks, which are already in extremely short supply. They are considering recommending that people wear a bandana or other cloth covering the mouth and nose. My husband has some of those masks that folks use during home construction type work - the ones that supposedly help filter out dust and such. I can't ever breath worth a damn when I have one of those on. It is almost as bad as having my lungs full of the darn dust. I do still have some scarves upstairs - the fashion kind that I wore with blouses many years ago. I suppose those would likely work as a bandana-type mask, but I'd likely still be gasping for air trying to breath with one on. No, the CDC wants everyone to wear masks (this is for coming soon...not right this minute). As to when the masks will be made available, the current articles do not say. In China, Taiwan and other Asian countries they are NOW all wearing masks. It's been shown in photographs. Where they are getting all the masks in Asian countries now and as of a few days ago...the articles have not said. Meanwhile, yes, scarfs could help. I know it's difficult to breathe but once you are in your home after say going shopping, you can take the mask off and wash your face and hands...because it can get into the eyes as well. Wearing masks for working every day...it's not easy. I saw some kind of ventilator mask on Ebay...I'm not sure exactly what it does yet as I saw it before bed last night and haven't had time to read about it. But, there are also washable masks...I saw them on Ebay. There are a billion masks for sale on Ebay of all different kinds. Edited March 31, 2020 by FairreLilette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: No, the CDC wants everyone to wear masks (this is for coming soon...not right this minute). As to when the masks will be made available, the current articles do not say. In China, Taiwan and other Asian countries they are NOW all wearing masks. It's been shown in photographs. Where they are getting all the masks in Asian countries now and as of a few days ago...the articles have not said. There is nothing yet official about this on the CDC web site. This is what is currently on the CDC website: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/prevention.html Various articles are reporting different versions of what the CDC "might" do based on things they have heard -- a few examples: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/coronavirus-cdc-face-mask-wear-public-store-a9438181.html https://www.cnet.com/how-to/homemade-face-masks-and-coronavirus-what-to-know-about-cdc-recommendations-and-n95/ Edited March 31, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: No, the CDC wants everyone to wear masks (this is for coming soon...not right this minute). What the CDC wants, and what the CDC gets, are two different things. There are simply not enough masks for everyone. The ones we have should be for hospital employees and those on the front lines, period. My sister in law is a nurse currently working in the all-the-symptoms-but-no-test-results-yet wing, and it's a nightmare sh*t show of epic proportions. There is such a shortage of masks that they have to wear the same one for 2 twelve hour shifts. 45 of her co-workers have tested positive, so they're even more short staffed now. Oh, and she's over 60 and has had respiratory problems before. She won't quit, though, because she's so desperately needed. The stories she's telling us from the front lines are horrific. The general public just needs to keep their asses at home - go to the grocery and wear your scarf or bandanna if you need to - but the masks need to be for the medical professionals only, and when there is enough for them, firefighters and police need to be next. Custodial staff. Grocery staff. Food manufacturing facilities. Truck drivers. The general public should be at the bottom of the list. This is about the greater good. I think it's incredibly selfish for anyone to be trying to acquire a mask that isn't on the front lines of this war. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: There is nothing yet official about this on the CDC web site. This is what is currently on the CDC website: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/prevention.html Various articles are reporting different versions of what the CDC "might" do based on things they have heard -- a few examples: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/coronavirus-cdc-face-mask-wear-public-store-a9438181.html https://www.cnet.com/how-to/homemade-face-masks-and-coronavirus-what-to-know-about-cdc-recommendations-and-n95/ That "thought" is changing now though and I said the CDC is discussing whether to in my post. Here's what I said in my first post that you replied to: My Post: The CDC is now weighing whether to have everyone in America wear a mask. I said that what seems like weeks ago, that we need to do this when masks become available. The data suggests the wearing of masks by everyone in China, Taiwan and other Asian places is helping tremendously. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-considering-recommending-general-public-wear-face-coverings-in-public/ar-BB11W3xA?li=BBnb7Kz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: The data suggests the wearing of masks by everyone in China, Taiwan and other Asian places is helping tremendously. Data can 'suggest' all sorts of different things to different people. It most certainly is not suggesting that masks in the Asian areas are "helping tremendously". Even in that article you linked, most opinion is that a mask still will not keep anyone from becoming infected. The only real consensus is that a mask might help prevent spreading from an infected person that does not yet know they are infected - assuming that the person is coughing or sneezing. Regardless of the various opinions, if anyone feels safer wearing some sort of homemade mask then they most definitely should. However, the average person most definitely should not be trying to get their hands on a batch of the medical masks that are in short supply and so desperately needed by the health and emergency people. Edited March 31, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) I like the pattern for this one from the NYTimes. If I had a machine and could remember how to use it, I’d make some. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/31/opinion/coronavirus-n95-mask.html Edited March 31, 2020 by Pamela Galli 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 55 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said: Any death is a loss, and the more painful when it is someone close. You have my sympathy, Maddy. Thanks Rolig, though this cousin wasn't close to me. At its peak, our family reunions would draw 400-500 people. We're down to less than 200, but that's still a lot of people to keep track of. At nearly 50, I'm the youngest (by far) member of my generation of the family tree. The average age of cousins in my generation is north of 70. I'm expecting to get more bad news. The relative I'm most closely watching is Mom, who at this moment is having a heart failure flare up that's got her care staff (and Mom!) concerned. The hospital isn't allowing visitors these days, so any trip she takes there is gonna be a lonely one and subjects her to risk of infection and the very high probability she won't survive it. Between Dad and me, Mom has endured nearly seven decades of exposure to dark humor. I recently offered to drive over to her retirement village, where I'd accidentally run over her with my car to invoke a quick exit with me at her side (or on top of her, depending on my driving skill). She gracefully declined, saying she'd rather have COVID-19 take the blame. That's Mom, always looking out for her li'l devil. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I have allergies. It's allergy season. Stop looking at me with murder in your eyes when I cough (I smoke) or sneeze. It's freaking pollen not novel coronavirus! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said: I have allergies. It's allergy season. Stop looking at me with murder in your eyes when I cough (I smoke) or sneeze. It's freaking pollen not novel coronavirus! Most definitely this ^^. I smoked for 35 years before I quit a dozen years ago, but I still have a residual smoker's cough - and my allergies are always flaring up. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: However, the average person most definitely should not be trying to get their hands on a batch of the medical masks that are in short supply and so desperately needed by the health and emergency people. I had a sizable stash of N95 masks in my shop, which I used when spray painting or sanding drywall joints. I just split that stash with friends of mine in the nursing community. I still have dozens of the super cheap shop masks, which are good enough to contain any ickness I might emit should I contract the virus and have a pressing need to go out in public. So far, I think both of those are unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 Annnnnnd our internet just dropped on us and took it's time coming back up. Fortunately he wasn't on a call right then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Data can 'suggest' all sorts of different things to different people. It most certainly is not suggesting that masks in the Asian areas are "helping tremendously". No, I was talking about other articles where it showed people in all of China wearing masks even Chinese and other Asian country commuters commuting to work all in masks...the photographs have been out for days now, as well as how well the Asian countries are doing now that they all are wearing masks. The fact that Asian's are doing rather well now is why the CDC is discussing that all wear masks (not this minute...but I think the masks will be made available soon). I didn't think I need to post every photograph, article (as there are more than one) nor was I bringing up a debate as others can go to the top news stories themselves. But, yes, it is felt that other Asian countries where a very low coronavirus is showing is because they put masks on everyone very early on and that's what the CDC is discussing now. However, the flip side is not will they help because they would as they would be put on people who are carriers before they even know it as well as those around them...the CDC is debating whether the masks would discourage social distancing. Edited March 31, 2020 by FairreLilette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: No, I was talking about other articles where it showed people in all of China wearing masks even Chinese and other Asian country commuters commuting to work all in masks...the photographs have been out for days now, as well as how well the Asian countries are doing now that they all are wearing masks. The fact that Asian's are doing rather well now is why the CDC is discussing that all wear masks (not this minute...but I think the masks will be made available soon). I didn't think I need to post every photograph, article (as there are more than one) nor was I bringing up a debate as others can go to the top news stories themselves. But, yes, it is felt that other Asian countries where a very low coronavirus is showing is because they put masks on everyone very early on and that's what the CDC is discussing now. However, the flip side is not will they help because they would as they would be put on people who are carriers before they even know it as well as those around them...the CDC is debating whether the masks would discourage social distancing. I spent a month in Japan when I was a teen in the mid 80s, and found it curious that some Japanese were wearing surgical masks in public. I'd never seen that here at home. I learned that they do it out of concern for infecting others when they have colds or the flu. Japan is a densely packed society, with a population of 127 million packed into an area smaller than California. Japanese citizens are fairly deferential to the needs of the community, so wearing a mask to protect others is "the right thing to do". Since my visit, the Japanese have taken to wearing masks during allergy season and in smoggy downtown areas. They've also become something of a fashion statement. They are a fastidious people and masks reflect that. I'm not as familiar with the rest of Asia, but I suspect their use of masks follows similar reasoning. Asia also has more experience dealing with pandemics, as shown in the overall response to COVID-19, compared to western countries. America's independent cowboy ethos is at odds with wearing masks. COVID-19 might change that. Edited March 31, 2020 by Madelaine McMasters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said: America's independent cowboy ethos is at odds with wearing masks. COVID-19 might change that. I hope so...it's an important part of our arsenal to wear a mask during infectious phases along with soap and water/hand sanitizer, sanitizing wipes at grocery stores, and social distancing. And, needs to be in place in infectious seasons. Not to mention we are going to need masks because this could play out for over a year. The virus may go dormant but I doubt it will be dormant forever not until there is a vaccine. 3 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said: COVID-19 is a respiratory (lung) virus. The nose, mouth, eyes (via the sinuses), and throat are all conduits to the lungs. It's not so much the moisture that's the culprit. COVID-19 hates soapy water. It's that the vulnerable tissues happen to be wet. Similarly, blood born pathogens care less about water than the access to infectable blood cells, which are of course floating in, and filled with... water. Fortunately, human bodies do a pretty good job of keeping the circulatory system isolated from the outside world. I was just reading a little about the cold and flu and it says it "may" be because 1) Virus cells can develop a sort of "coat" in cold weather that protects them, and 2) That our sinuses are dry in colder weather and have lost their mucus protection due to the dryness. See, I was thinking our sinuses are moist but in colder weather our sinuses are dry. However, an infected person has over-blown mucus and wetness. My nose and eyes have been so dry from all the chemical cleaning in my building and now there is a little blood coming from my nose. My eyes have also had some irritation. It is not good to be cleaning 8 times a day. A mask would be better. I live with 110 people in an apartment building so there is a lot of cleaning going on here. Though I thanked them for all they are doing. Edited March 31, 2020 by FairreLilette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: See, I was thinking our sinuses are moist but in colder weather our sinuses are dry. However, an infected person has over-blown mucus and wetness. Mucus has several functions. It can be used for lubrication, to keep bits from drying out, to capture icky bugs before they penetrate to vulnerable tissues, and to transport them out of the body. Mucus production increases with infections and allergies, as the body steps up efforts to eliminate them. 35 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: My nose and eyes have been so dry from all the chemical cleaning in my building and now there is a little blood coming from my nose. My eyes have also had some irritation. It is not good to be cleaning 8 times a day. A mask would be better. Are you cleaning eight times a day, or is that the cumulative effort of everyone in your apartment complex? If that's just your effort, I see no reason for it. As I mentioned before, you really only need to clean surfaces that are touched by people entering your space or were touched by people outside it (like food packaging). Once inside, wash hands and any surfaces that were potentially touched by unwashed hands. Once that's done, the interior of your space should be free of virus. Any further cleaning has no effect on your susceptibility to infection. I try to be super conscious of the cleaning/touching rules when outside my home and when returning to it. Once inside, and after washing down all the potentially infected surfaces, I return to living like a bum. Edited March 31, 2020 by Madelaine McMasters 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Mucus has several functions. It can be used for lubrication, to keep bits from drying out, to capture icky bugs before they penetrate to vulnerable tissues, and to transport them out of the body. Mucus production increases with infections and allergies, as the body steps up efforts to eliminate them. Are you cleaning eight times a day, or is that the cumulative effort of everyone in your apartment complex? If that's just your effort, I see no reason for it. As I mentioned before, you really only need to clean surfaces that are touched by people entering your space or were touched by people outside it (like food packaging). Once inside, wash hands and any surfaces that were potentially touched by unwashed hands. Once that's done, the interior of your space should be free of virus. Any further cleaning has no effect on your susceptibility to infection. It's my building interior that's being cleaned almost like once every hour or so. I don't have anything to do with it. I just spoke with my Landlady about it. She is going to get me an OTC nasal spray as we cannot go out yet but when I asked her she almost seemed ready to let me go shopping by myself. Hopefully soon!!!!!!!!!!! I remembered something that happened to me a long time ago. I got bronchitis and a bf at that time bought me a humidifier. It worked wonders and I used the humidifier for several years in the Winter and I remember being told we are susceptible because of the dry indoor Winter air. Humidifiers work great, imo, but they are difficult to clean because the inside can get full of algae. I wonder why hospitals don't use humidifiers for those who need help breathing? Edited March 31, 2020 by FairreLilette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dano Seale Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 7 hours ago, Drayke Newall said: Completely irrelevant but let me see, I don't know. They both cremated a lot of corpses, so why irrelevant? 7 hours ago, Drayke Newall said: perhaps it had something to do with them not cremating individually to keep the ashes to put them in an urn to return to the family. That is to say (for the uneducated non self thinkers out there) they mass cremated. The ovens at Auschwitz and other "death camps" didn't seem that big and they didn't have the modern blast burners todays crematoriums have. 7 hours ago, Amina Sopwith said: What point are you trying to make? That Drake says the Chinese are struggling 24/7 to cremate about 42,000 bodies. Just wondering how the Germans managed to do it to a lot of the (apparently) 11,000,000 bodies they killed? 7 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said: German efficiency. It would appear so Lyssa, yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 1.32 Million Jews Were Killed in Just Three Months During the Holocaust Edited March 31, 2020 by Selene Gregoire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, FairreLilette said: I wonder why hospitals don't use humidifiers for those who need help breathing? They do use them, routinely. Mom's been in the hospital three times in the last two years, with respiratory difficulties. All three times they've put her briefly on an automatic BiPap machine with built-in humidifier. I think all of the hospital's airway assist devices have the ability to control humidity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, FairreLilette said: She is going to get me an OTC nasal spray as we cannot go out yet but when I asked her she almost seemed ready to let me go shopping by myself. Hopefully soon!!!!!!!!!!! She STILL has you locked in?! Yet she’s apparently going out to shop?! What. The. Four Letter Word?!?!?!? She is likely poisoning you all with the cleaning if whatever she’s using is causing your eyes and nose to dry out AND YOUR NOSE TO BLEED. DO SOMETHING! Call the police, the mayor, the housing authority, the media... FFS, stand up for your damn self before this lunatic kills you all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda Huntress Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said: FFS, stand up for your damn self before this lunatic kills you all. I gave up. If she won't do anything to help herself, what's the point? She knows what she needs to do and knows how to do it and it is trivially simple to do. So ... I gave up worrying. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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