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5 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

some essentials (ice cream and Oreos)

I knew I liked you for a reason

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Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

I knew I liked you for a reason

Luckily they had plenty of both!

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16 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I stopped by my grocery yesterday to grab some essentials (ice cream and Oreos) and decided to grab a loaf of bread while I was there. When I shopped last Friday, there were signs up limiting bread to 3 per person and those signs are gone now. 

I thought that was a promising sign that we're getting our food supply chain working well. 

Our walmart put up signs one day when this all started, because people were hoarding so bad.. Then a friend told me that someone called their main office to complain..So they took them down..

They ended up putting them back up again..But,I just thought how silly to do something like that because someone complained..

I don't shop at walmart or really need to go into town for anything..We're pretty well self sufficient on the farm.. But it being a small town,word gets around quick..

The funny thing is,I know people that work in the stores and they say, it's the same people  that are there every morning when the store opens..

I did go to Kroger last week, more or less to see for myself how it looked inside.. There was still a lot of stuff in there..No bread though, but it was later in the day.. But they've been putting it out every day,the same with toilet paper and just about anything that people were really scrambling for..

The people showing up every day must not realize the stores are not going to close..

 

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1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

The people showing up every day must not realize the stores are not going to close..

Who says they're not?

To be honest, I agree with you that they will remain open and that trucks will continue to arrive with fresh supplies of products.  But we don't KNOW that that will continue.  It could very well be that in a few more weeks, you and I will wish we'd done just a bit more stocking up and "hoarding."
 

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38 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Who says they're not?

To be honest, I agree with you that they will remain open and that trucks will continue to arrive with fresh supplies of products.  But we don't KNOW that that will continue.  It could very well be that in a few more weeks, you and I will wish we'd done just a bit more stocking up and "hoarding."
 

It's thinking like that that leads to things like this

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Uh...I think you misunderstood my post, Beth.  I did not, and am not, advocating hoarding.  I am only buying what we need, when we need it.

I only pointed out that I could be wrong, and the hoarders right.  If the virus causes supply chains to break down, or stores to close for lack of people to run them, for example.

But the hoarders in your example were not only hoarding...they stupidly advertised it.

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a thing about hoarding is that it brings peace of mind to the hoarder

where hoarding can become an issue is when stocks are completely exhausted and there is no hope of the stock being replenished. Which is not the case in this current situation

personally I haven't stocked up on anything specially, still did my main grocery shopping fortnightly like always. Altho I am considering doing enough shopping for a month, next week.  Just so that instead of going twice to the supermarket over this next month I only go once.  More to observe the spirit of the isolation effort than anything else. The supermarket staff don't need me in their store any more times than is necessary

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9 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

a thing about hoarding is that it brings peace of mind to the hoarder

where hoarding can become an issue is when stocks are completely exhausted and there is no hope of the stock being replenished. Which is not the case in this current situation

personally I haven't stocked up on anything specially, still did my main grocery shopping fortnightly like always. Altho I am considering doing enough shopping for a month, next week.  Just so that instead of going twice to the supermarket over this next month I only go once.  More to observe the spirit of the isolation effort than anything else. The supermarket staff don't need me in their store any more times than is necessary

When hoarding becomes an issue is also because others see it happening then decide they ought to as well and before you know it everyone is doing it then people like me who just wanted a can of tomato soup have to make do with some foul flavour like cauliflower and wensleydale

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5 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

a thing about hoarding is that it brings peace of mind to the hoarder

Does it, though? My experience is that they can never have enough and are just constantly panicked about running out even when the tower of tins is in danger of flattening them. I've heard stories now about people trying to buy 40 bags of flour, loading their cars up to the ceiling with toilet roll and sweeping every last bottle of handwash into the trolley as soon as the shelf is stacked, and so on. Who wouldn't be reassured by, say, a mere 25 bags of flour, three jumbo packs of bog roll or five bottles of handwash (the limit my local supermarket has imposed, while the bar soap went largely untouched)?.

I don't know, I think it's one of those mindsets that can never be at peace.

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1 minute ago, KanryDrago said:

When hoarding becomes an issue is also because others see it happening then decide they ought to as well and before you know it everyone is doing it then people like me who just wanted a can of tomato soup have to make do with some foul flavour like cauliflower and wensleydale

yes this is true when where we shop always has the things we prefer in normal circumstances

i shop at Pak n Save which is the nearest supermarket to me, Is a big barn no-frills store. The community I live in has a lot of large families and there is a lot of bulk buying and product lines get cleaned out particularly on Wednesday and Thursday, pay day for most people in my neighbourhood. So I am already used to some products not being on the shelf.  To ameliorate this I do my shopping on Monday,, still sometimes they are out of stock of a preferred brand if I go later in the evening and not in the morning. When so I get something else if I need it

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25 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

a thing about hoarding is that it brings peace of mind to the hoarder

Proven by the smug look on the face of the hoarder woman in the video. Vile vile individual.
Someone should have waited until they payed for the 2 trolleys worth - then stolen it all from them. 😝 
 

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Odds are in favor of survival. Hoarders are busy handling product that has been through many hands, not every package is loaded/boxed by one individual. So please, hoard away, we'll know where possible free loot is in 3 weeks after your purchase. (Depending on your current health, that is.)

johnshopkins.png

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First thing I saw on the news today was pictures of bins full of rotting food which had been hoarded and gone out of date so chucked away.  When more people are dying from hunger around the world than they are of Covid-19,  this is truely sickening

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4 hours ago, Cindy Evanier said:

First thing I saw on the news today was pictures of bins full of rotting food which had been hoarded and gone out of date so chucked away.  When more people are dying from hunger around the world than they are of Covid-19,  this is truely sickening

Mostly preventable. Pressure cooker and mason jars. I've personally eaten fruits that had been canned for over 13+ years. Entirely possible to can meats also though I am not sure how long shelf-life would be. Unsure how to can? duckduckgo is your friend. (Just don't let your pressure cooker explode.)

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5 hours ago, Cindy Evanier said:

First thing I saw on the news today was pictures of bins full of rotting food which had been hoarded and gone out of date so chucked away.  When more people are dying from hunger around the world than they are of Covid-19,  this is truely sickening

Although there's certainly waste from hoarding, a really huge amount of food is now being wasted because demand and distribution has changed so dramatically. Many products were packaged for distribution to restaurants, but the remaining delivery and take-out business is tiny compared to what used to be the eat-in business, and that supply is still adapting to a whole different distribution. Also, we're now being cautioned against fresh produce not for cooking because there's no practical way to sanitize it enough, so that stuff is doomed to rot away: there's just no longer enough demand to consume the supply. The waste is unfortunate, but much of it is a direct result of COVID-19 precautions rather than hoarding.

The guidelines are evolving to be more strict here, and there may be more on the horizon. They're now advising that anybody over 60 not leave home for any reason other than medical emergency. They're sounding less confident about the 2m "social" distance. I'm not in NYC, but I've read that GPs (not public health officials) are telling their healthy patients not to exercise outside and certainly not to ride bikes in the city: the viral load is so high that even if there's nobody within 2m while passing through a space, there might still be aerosol transmission (I guess from somebody breathing in the space earlier).

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6 hours ago, Cindy Evanier said:

First thing I saw on the news today was pictures of bins full of rotting food which had been hoarded and gone out of date so chucked away.  When more people are dying from hunger around the world than they are of Covid-19,  this is truely sickening

A grocery store here in the US had to throw out $35,000 worth of produce, meat, bakery, and other fresh foods because some woman intentionally coughed and spit all over them after entering the store and claiming she had COVID-19.  She is now being charged with 4 felonies and various misdemeanors.  

I honestly just do not comprehend how anyone can do such things.

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Overall, I'm honestly feeling better about it all, especially as more places put in various versions of the Stay at Home order. While New York is testing just about everyone that shows the slightest symptom, most of the US is only testing those that are much more critical - mostly only those ending up in the hospital or emergency rooms.  That means that all those people with mild to moderate symptoms are not included in the case counts - we are flat out told that if our symptoms are not severe and needing critical care to just treat ourselves at home.  I have no doubt that there are lots of folks in that category of mild to moderate symptoms.

The extrapolated meaning of that is that the chance of death, taken as a whole, is less that the figures we've seen thrown out there.  The death rate percentage is based on the number of cases known to be positive - not the total number of actual infected people.

I do still think the Shelter in Place orders are needed and I still think it is a good idea to give the seniors their own hour of shopping to help lower their risk.  Despite what some idiot politician says, I do not think that we should just go about our everyday lives and intentionally sacrifice the elderly for the sake of the economy.

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And then we get the feel good stories like this that helps to maintain my faith in mankind in general

image.thumb.png.62452ed56784a6db6460191ec2ab0750.png

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Wow, this is the most detailed comprehensive info (from s Korea) I have seen!

  

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Posted (edited)

Sorry to hear about the trials and stress lots are dealing with!

If anyone could help with my following questions, I'd appreciate it very much.

***************

1)  In layman's terms and in the short version where and how do viruses start?

2)  I have questions and concerns about my air-conditioner/heating unit.  I cleaned out my air conditioner and heating unit as when I looked in it it was full of growths and crud and what looks like mold (I googled images of mold in air conditioners and that's what it looked like).  I cleaned it thoroughly as best I could.  I've cleaned most of my home with a good old-fashioned bucket of soap and water and drying everything as well and then threw all of the cloths away.  I did sanitize whatever I touch often like cell phone, handles, etc.  But, I wanted to know is there any possibility virus cells can grow in a place like my air-conditioner/heating unit with mold and whatever else the "crud" was?  Does my air-conditioner and heating unit have a potential to making me sick?  And, if so...sick from what?   Is it time to ask a service person or just change it?  There was nothing wrong with the working of it...it just has growths of some kind in there....maybe mold and something else.  

Edited by JanuarySwan
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1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

That means that all those people with mild to moderate symptoms are not included in the case counts - we are flat out told that if our symptoms are not severe and needing critical care to just treat ourselves at home.  I have no doubt that there are lots of folks in that category of mild to moderate symptoms.

I know of one such case personally.  When he called the hospital to ask what he should do they asked him a few questions and then told him he was not at risk and to just stay at home unless it got worse.

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47 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

Sorry to hear about the trials and stress lots are dealing with!

If anyone could help with my following questions, I'd appreciate it very much.

***************

1)  In layman's terms and in the short version where and how do viruses start?

2)  I have questions and concerns about my air-conditioner/heating unit.  I cleaned out my air conditioner and heating unit as when I looked in it it was full of growths and crud and what looks like mold (I googled images of mold in air conditioners and that's what it looked like).  I cleaned it thoroughly as best I could.  I've cleaned most of my home with a good old-fashioned bucket of soap and water and drying everything as well and then threw all of the cloths away.  I did sanitize whatever I touch often like cell phone, handles, etc.  But, I wanted to know is there any possibility virus cells can grow in a place like my air-conditioner/heating unit with mold and whatever else the "crud" was?  Does my air-conditioner and heating unit have a potential to making me sick?  And, if so...sick from what?   Is it time to ask a service person or just change it?  There was nothing wrong with the working of it...it just has growths of some kind in there....maybe mold and something else.  

You can find the answers to your questions via Google.

To give you one answer so you can go find the info you need for yourself, yes, a dirty ac/heating unit can make you sick. So can dirty air ducts.

https://acaai.org/allergies/allergy-treatment/air-filters

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I feel so bad for the people who have symptoms not getting the much needed care from doctors. It is awful. 

I know I'm fortunate, I have a doctor who has seen me go through so much including being diagnosed with a hereditary condition that causes skeletal issues along my spine besides a whole host of added fun stuff! I also have a compromised immune system. He is awesome. He diagnosed me with the flu about a week ago, delivered my medications I need to my door since I'm alone other than a roommate and told me to stay home. Not everyone is so fortunate and it's heartbreaking they aren't getting the care they need.

I'm worried about getting the virus, but more terrified of how some people are acting. Before being told to stay home, of course I did my grocery shopping. Sometimes I'm in a wheelchair. I had a person push me to the side when I was trying to get things I needed. I found their attitude very aggressive like I was a mere thing to be moved out of the way because I was in a chair. I've never had someone invade my space like that before.

So I'm frightened of others not thinking straight and calmly during this time. Like the hoarding of toilet paper, cleaning products, food or hand sanitizer. Or those who feel it is alright to touch or harm others because that person is in their way or buying something they want. Acting out in panic never helps a situation, but right now it seems unavoidable with some.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

Sorry to hear about the trials and stress lots are dealing with!

If anyone could help with my following questions, I'd appreciate it very much.

***************

1)  In layman's terms and in the short version where and how do viruses start?

2)  I have questions and concerns about my air-conditioner/heating unit.  I cleaned out my air conditioner and heating unit as when I looked in it it was full of growths and crud and what looks like mold (I googled images of mold in air conditioners and that's what it looked like).  I cleaned it thoroughly as best I could.  I've cleaned most of my home with a good old-fashioned bucket of soap and water and drying everything as well and then threw all of the cloths away.  I did sanitize whatever I touch often like cell phone, handles, etc.  But, I wanted to know is there any possibility virus cells can grow in a place like my air-conditioner/heating unit with mold and whatever else the "crud" was?  Does my air-conditioner and heating unit have a potential to making me sick?  And, if so...sick from what?   Is it time to ask a service person or just change it?  There was nothing wrong with the working of it...it just has growths of some kind in there....maybe mold and something else.  

Hi January,

Your primary risk from an air conditioner is directly from the mold, fungus, or bacteria that might grow in it. That risk is low and hasn't changed because of COVID-19. Most molds, fungus, and bacteria are harmless. Some are delicious. Molds and fungi can cause respiratory problems, so an icky air conditioner could exacerbate an existing COVID-19 infection, but not cause it. I change my furnace filter every three months. The ductwork hasn't been cleaned in... 70 years, and doesn't look dirty enough to need it (you do stir up a lot of junk during a duct cleaning, so that's not a risk free endeavor).

Viruses are not living organisms and are not cellular. They replicate by hijacking the cellular machinery of living organisms. For that reason, they cannot replicate on or in dead things. Mold is not a dead thing, so it's possible for viruses to grow in them. Fortunately, the mechanics of various living organisms are sufficiently different that it's usually not possible for a virus to replicate in any organism other than the one it evolved to infect. A virus that infects a mold would not infect a human. Even viruses that infect other mammals usually do not infect humans. COVID-19 is an exception, infecting both bats (the theorized source) and us (the unfortunate destination).

Though viruses can't replicate without a living host cell, they can survive on their own. This is why we're now wiping down commonly touched surfaces. Viruses are not growing there, but they can lie dormant for some time. Viruses exposed to oxygen, ultraviolet light, or any number of chemicals (alcohols, acids, alkalies, etc.) will be damaged to the point that they, even if introduced to a living organism, will no longer infect. Counterintuitively, COVID-19 can survive for days on surfaces we think of as "sanitary" like plastics and stainless steel. This is because those surfaces are chemically inert. They don't provide nutrients or safe harbor for mold, fungus, or bacteria. That's good. They are also chemically inert, and therefore don't damage viruses that come into contact with them. That's not so good.

People have expressed concern about eating fresh produce that may have been handled by someone infected with COVID-19. There is, so far, no evidence of infection being conveyed in that manner. The surfaces of foodstuffs are fairly hostile to viruses. That said, I'd still recommend rinsing fresh produce before consuming it raw. Because food packaging is purposely designed to be "sanitary", that's where you should focus the most care. The boxes and bags containing our food are probably more hospitable to viruses than the food inside. So, wipe down the box your food comes in, carefully remove food from bags. Wash your hands after unwrapping food and before touching or eating it. This reduces the potential for you to transfer COVID-19 from the package to the contents.

If you are sequestered in your home and are cleaning things that enter it (food, your hands, etc), there's no reason to be wiping down every door knob and drawer handle. Just wash those (like your entry doorknob) that you touch with unwashed hands. COVID-19 can't start spreading around your house until it gains entry. Focus on keeping it out by washing your hands and anything they've touched before washing, whenever you return home from the wild.

Now, back to your first question. I don't think we know how the first virus evolved, but they've been around about as long as there have been cells to be infected by them. The COVID-19 virus started as a mutation of some other mammalian virus that wasn't infectious to humans. There have already been numerous mutations detected in people around the world, but I've not yet read of those mutations corresponding to any significant difference in infectiousness or severity of illness.

You may not need to do all the cleaning you've set out for yourself, but if it's making you feel better, have at it!

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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