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1 hour ago, Caroline Takeda said:


All I am saying is, that in my experience (conducting under cover reseach), adults standing at such places with the intention to pick up child avis at CERTAIN places is not just the od case but almost the norm.  This is not happening at EVERY child place in SL, but rather at very specific ones.
 

And you very thoughtfully tell anyone who'd be looking for one exactly which places to go.

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Posted (edited)

I use to think kid avatars were creepy as shirt. I'm not even gonna lie. lol Given SL is an adult game with a buffet of adult activities on it I had a real issue about it back in the day. Then I met someone who became my SL son who taught me that there are a variety of reasons why someone would choose to play SL as a kid. Maybe they had a rotten childhood and wanted to relive a better one or maybe they just wanted a completely PG SL experience minus all the adult nonsense. Since then I have acquired 3 daughters, several nieces and nephews and a buffet of brats that like to hang around me from time to time. lol I can definitely see the appeal now days, but I and still good at just being a parent. lol 😎

Now one of the things kid avatars need to watch out for is what sims they go to and make sure they keep their Alphas on at all times. One of my SL daughters who was RP'ing as a teen at the time was in a cuddle pose talking to a friend at the beach and some jerk de-rendered her clothing on her and sent in a report which resulted in her account being banned. So obviously that caused a buffet of issues for her because we all know LL doesn't exactly have the best customer service support. Especially when you have a problem. In fact this became such a bad issue among that community to the point that group notices were put out for a while there warning and reminding everyone to be sure to keep their Alphas on at all times. So if you play as kid on here make sure you pull them Alpha britches on up. lol 😎

Edited by Velk Kerang
Corrections.
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19 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

And you very thoughtfully tell anyone who'd be looking for one exactly which places to go.

Thats a good point!

Haven't thought about that one .

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19 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

You investigate adult avatars in kid places and find there are age-players. Big woop. Did you investigate the kids too, who might be looking for like-minded adults? Did you investigate kids looking for kids? (general you)

Yes and yes, but that was then stuff for another article.

And yes, I metioned before , this post is just the surface, by no means complete.

 

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On 6/18/2020 at 2:42 AM, Caroline Takeda said:

Hi

I did an under cover research on the dark side of this and wrote a blogpost about it. I had to use an ALT, because too many people know me as a blogger. I got banned there after I puplished this. 🙂 In the comment section you see people getting really aggressive about me sticking my nose in "their business".

Feel free to link to it or quote it on your blogpost:
https://www.second-life-adventures.com/age-play-second-life/

I believe there is nothing wrong with having a child or teen avatar, as long as one behaves accordingly (no sex that is). Why do people get paranoid about child avis? Because there is the dark side. It is not just the odd creepy pervert, there is a scene for that. Hidden, but it does exist.
 

And I only scratched at the surface with this post.

 

yep the are some very dark aspects about sl that most people try to ignore like it doesn't happen. happens other places too that have rules against it, such as on discord as well.

no one likes being told that their dark or perverted fantasy is not allowed online.. its all virtual.. no one was really hurt or abused.. its all fantasy.. its all fake.. its not real.. no real person was hurt by doing this.. its between two consenting adults so its ok..they wanted it.. they desired it.. they craved it.. they ok'd it.. they excused it.. 

stop trying to ruin our fun...

they seem to forget about the emotional or mental damage that can happen or just refuse to accept that possibility of it, or know and dont care.. or even worse know and enjoy it..

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To adress all the people that quoted me or replied back to me... it kinda just feels like your protecting and defending a weird childplay thing.

I just cant comprehend a fully grown mentally stable adult behind the screen of a computer dressing up as a toddler or child and making the sounds or typing out baby talk .. i mean ..really consider  that a moment.

 

I get the whole "lets play one big happy family" online and go to a park with mommy and daddy.. but if second life is technically considered an Adult game.. then why on earth.. and how on earth is child play even allowed? .. 

There wouldnt be weirdos sitting in parks starring at kids and toddlers if their wasnt any.. and it sounds like theres more than a few peoppe online who are weirded out by the idea knowing that theres adults behind the screen playing these sort of roles.. it makes it an uneasy feeling whether you like it or not. 

I'll give you a good example of a few weeks ago when i was in 7 deadly skins.. a store that has head to toe skins.. people undressing and testing demos and whatnot.. but a male toddler was there (not kid, a toddler) .. so is everyone meamt to stop what their doing? Is it inappropriate to be trying skins on with a toddler around? Did the toddler have a mother there? Was the toddler on its own? .. most importantly.. WHY was a toddler in an ADULT store that is marked as Mature. 

Have fun defending this one.. lord knows some of you will. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, xBaeBeex said:

I just cant comprehend a fully grown mentally stable adult behind the screen of a computer dressing up as a toddler or child and making the sounds or typing out baby talk .. i mean ..really consider  that a moment.

I get the whole "lets play one big happy family" online and go to a park with mommy and daddy.. but if second life is technically considered an Adult game.. then why on earth.. and how on earth is child play even allowed? ..

  1. The people who baby-talk are objectively the weirdest bunch.
  2. Second Life allows anyone 16 and up to join. SL is by definition not "an adult game" despite it having adult content in it.
  3. Whether or not you're mentally stable doesn't really matter, there are so many valid reasons why someone might choose to use a child avatar. If you're a "fully grown mentally stable adult," you can understand that there isn't necessarily anything wrong with that.
3 hours ago, xBaeBeex said:

I'll give you a good example of a few weeks ago when i was in 7 deadly skins.. a store that has head to toe skins.. people undressing and testing demos and whatnot.. but a male toddler was there (not kid, a toddler) .. so is everyone meamt to stop what their doing? Is it inappropriate to be trying skins on with a toddler around? Did the toddler have a mother there? Was the toddler on its own? .. most importantly.. WHY was a toddler in an ADULT store that is marked as Mature. 

Have fun defending this one.. lord knows some of you will. 

The toddler isn't real, you don't need to shield its eyes. If that person wanted to be looking at demo boobs all day, they could do it without such an avatar just as well, so it's probably innocent and they're not even thinking about it. Maybe they are, but unless they approach you or are wearing obvious 'attachments,' you can't do anything besides (pointlessly) reporting and moving on. You'd have a stronger case if you saw them at a furniture store. And even then you'd just report them and move on.

And what if they did have a mother with them? Shouldn't you assume that's even worse?

None of this is to say that there aren't weirdos on SL. There are, but a little suspicion quickly turns into heavy paranoia.

Edit:

6 minutes ago, xBaeBeex said:

Are people missing the fact I pointed out that the store has an M for mature rating? ... i am getting worried for the toddlers safety now.. when did these rating no longer matter..? 

I hate to tell you this, but child avatars are allowed on even Adult-rated land. There's nothing against the TOS in that. This toddler-who-is-an-adult is not any safer in PG land, because the same weirdos you're paranoid about on Mature land can just as easily go to PG land... Age-play is already against the TOS, what do you think stops them from whipping it out in PG areas? Surely what they're doing is already worth a permanent ban in every conceivable way.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator
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1 hour ago, xBaeBeex said:

I just cant comprehend a fully grown mentally stable adult behind the screen of a computer dressing up as a toddler or child and making the sounds or typing out baby talk .. i mean ..really consider  that a moment.

They do it for a variety of reasons. Such as, but not limited to...

1. Abusive childhood and wanting to relive it to some extent and create better memories

2. Perhaps for some reason their parents weren't around and they grew up in care / foster homes and.....see end of No.1.

3. Providing a service for those unable to have children of their own in RL.

4. Fetish

Not everyone who does it has bad intentions so I wouldn't judge them too harshly unless you see something that's obviously a miss

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1 hour ago, xBaeBeex said:

I'll give you a good example of a few weeks ago when i was in 7 deadly skins.. a store that has head to toe skins.. people undressing and testing demos and whatnot.. but a male toddler was there (not kid, a toddler) .. so is everyone meamt to stop what their doing? Is it inappropriate to be trying skins on with a toddler around? Did the toddler have a mother there? Was the toddler on its own? .. most importantly.. WHY was a toddler in an ADULT store that is marked as Mature.

Skin stores aren't adult content under the rules. Nudity is not considered sexual by default under the rules. There are obviously examples where people break the rules with child avatars, because people get banned for it sometimes... but going shopping for new skins is not one of those cases.

Being a pretend child isn't my thing either, but you have to separate between "this is not for me" and "this is bad because it's not for me".

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Are people missing the fact I pointed out that the store has an M for mature rating? ... i am getting worried for the toddlers safety now.. when did these rating no longer matter..? 

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1 hour ago, xBaeBeex said:

Are people missing the fact I pointed out that the store has an M for mature rating? ... i am getting worried for the toddlers safety now.. when did these rating no longer matter..? 

Child avatars are allowed on adult regions so long as they stay away from things specified in the TOS, so they're certainly allowed on mature regions. These are not actual children. I don't think you need to worry about some 18 - 80 year old's safety.

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1 hour ago, xBaeBeex said:

Are people missing the fact I pointed out that the store has an M for mature rating? ... i am getting worried for the toddlers safety now.. when did these rating no longer matter..? 

...And why exactly? The GMA ratings are to seperate accounts by age of the accountholder, not by avatar type.

First of all, there is NO toddler in the scenario you described. There is an adult user, using an avatar. This person does not need to be protected from anything, because he/she is an ADULT. I've seen this logic before and I don't get it. You said you don't get family roleplay or using a child avatar, yet with that logic you would be deeper into that roleplay setting than any of the on average participating people themselves.

Also: Nudity is not by default sexual. A (real) toddler wouldn't be scarred for life, because he happened to see mommy change clothing in a dressing room.

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Let's break it down for those in the back or those rather late to understanding:

  1. Child Avatars are not against the ToS/CS
  2. Child Avatars are not actual children
  3. Child Avatars are allowed to go wherever they please, the only restriction being places of a Sexual nature
    1. No this does not mean they have any particular Maturity Rating restrictions - they can be on G, M and A rated regions as long as the region/parcel owner does not state otherwise

That should about cover it. Questions? Concerns? See the list above - these are the only answers that matter, all else has been discussed and argued over ad nauseum with no new data or "arguments" whatsoever, for the last decade or more.

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1 hour ago, xBaeBeex said:

Are people missing the fact I pointed out that the store has an M for mature rating? ... i am getting worried for the toddlers safety now.. when did these rating no longer matter..? 

keep worrying, while we move on with our normal use of SL , it's spelled out hundreds of times now. It is NOT about rating but content.

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I personally would be very uncomfortable seeing one, as I mostly go places of a sexual nature. I would tell them to leave immediately. I have no patience for *****!!!

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Posted (edited)

Child avatars squick me, particularly the ones that look like ~2- 8 (those that really look child/babyish).  I don't get the need to revisit childhood, but then again, mine sucked and I have no desire to repeat that much powerlessness or give up parental controls to some stranger on the interwebs...  If someone finds healing in that, great for them. I have found that learning to trust others takes time and surrendering all my control to them right off doesn't usually serve me.

My main issue though is that the first place I encountered child avatars was at Michigan Shack, a perveyor of all things sexual. (Pretty sure they didn't welcome these avatars, but they came anyway). Pretty sure they were there with 'parents' but regardless, it left a sick feeling in my soul as a sex abuse survivor.  I've seen them (usually 'tots') in all sorts of child-inappropriate places. Occasionally, they actually seem sexualized, sometimes on leashes. Frequently, they behave like unruly children, something that I tolerate adequately with real children because they're children and would rather not experience in an 'adults only' environment, though I never go to any of them for sex.

Sexuality and children should not EVER mix.  Not even faux children.  What two little real kids do out of curiosity is one thing, but adults and children, and sex, is vile and sick and destroys people.  There was a long time in my life when I would rather have been murdered. Death ends pain.

Thing is this.  I know they're most likely played by someone fully adult in age.  So it is unlikely to be anything but a violation of perception, though we don't actually know who anyone is here, do we?  So for their existence -- live and let live.  Around me?  I prefer to avoid them.  Except, as I said before, I have that one friend who appears to feel most comfortable in his garb as a unsexy but friendly looking 12 year old. I also know a few people who have been 'pregnant' and who have 'families'.  I don't 'get' this play act thing, but nothing 'weird' appears to go on.  I mostly ignore it as I like the people in question.  I didn't really grow up playing with baby dolls in real life, so maybe that's why it has zero appeal. 

Bottom line, I won't judge or condemn anyone who wants to be a child avatar or have 'children'. They don't condemn me for having blue hair.

I will vigorously condemn anyone who brings a child avatar into any adult* space and especially if they bring them in contact with adult (sexual) activities... even if they are played by adults.  NO ONE should be allowed to normalize that behavior, because it is fundamentally destructive.  I've counseled a lot of sex abuse survivors in 30 years of recovering, and I've yet to meet anyone who wasn't destroyed inside, whether or not they acted out or became addicts.

Besides anything, isn't portrayal of children doing things sexual illegal under US law -- even if it is just a 'depiction'?

 

*by adult, I mean any space where there's adult activity of a sexually provocative nature - not limited to actual sex, such as naked sexy dances.   There are a number of 'A' sims that aren't really 'adult' in the sense of being places for sex or provocative nudity.  

Edited by DeepBlueJoy
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, DeepBlueJoy said:

Besides anything, isn't portrayal of children doing things sexual illegal under US law -- even if it is just a 'depiction'?

According to Wikipedia, fictional depictions that don't involve real children is handled on a "state by state and case by case basis" based on obscenity laws. (Determined by individual judge or jury in reference to local standards.) Some states (California) don't have any laws prohibiting it, some (Utah) explicitly ban it.

2010, someone was sentenced (plea) for fictional content because he had a history of viewing real content.
2011, someone was arrested due to being a user of a site, had anime content on his computer, but was never charged or sentenced.
2012, someone was sentenced (plea) for fictional content but was also charged (dropped) for possession of real content.

Edited by Wulfie Reanimator

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Posted (edited)

Having a kid avatar is plenty of fun for sure . This one is mine  was an Animesh that i changed to be a normal avi.

Used to go and bother friends when they were busy building stuff , posing for flickr photos or whatever and they laughed their hearts out.

Snapshot_002profile.thumb.png.19b13c90fd774f2444c4962cf4fe5619.png

Edited by Nick0678

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Is it my imagination or did a bunch of comments get removed from this thread? Maybe I am getting it confused with another thread I commented on that I got likes on, but I didn't see anything bad said on either side of the opinion pole that warranted removal. At least not when I last visited anyway. lol I'm only asking because I noticed comments this one and on other threads removed and entire threads deleted today. lol Is this forum clean up day or something? lol Just curious because I am still waiting for comment approval on another thread so I just gotta ask. lol 😎

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Two threads I was posting on were deleted.

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15 hours ago, Bagnu said:

Two threads I was posting on were deleted.

Ok thank you so very much. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me and that I was loosing my mind here. lol I sometimes get threads mixed up on similar topics, but for some reason it seemed like a hand full of them got zapped for what ever reason. lol😎

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On 6/21/2020 at 10:18 PM, xBaeBeex said:

Are people missing the fact I pointed out that the store has an M for mature rating? ... i am getting worried for the toddlers safety now.. when did these rating no longer matter..? 

Stores aren't rated, regions are.  The avatar may be a child, but there is an adult playing the avatar.  A mother trying on clothes in RL can bring their children into the dressing room, and there is no sexual abuse issue.  Why are you so worried about a child avatar at a skin store. There is no child at risk in the scenario you are describing.

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M isn't for 'mature' anyway. M is for 'moderate'. Skin stores don't need to be on adult regions unless they're showing explicit pics of genitalia etc.

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Posted (edited)

A Region rated Adult doesn't mean a child looking avatar can't be there, i always Rated my Regions as Adult(A) although their setup was actually Moderate(M) = no public display of sexual content.

There are many people who tend to confuse SL teenager/child/toddler avatars with RL kids just like they confuse the adult looking avatars with RL adults and also their own avatar with themselves.

I had a recent discussion with a friend who whenever i swapped avatars or accounts she wasn't feeling comfortable especially if i swapped into fantasy based avatars or kids/whatever. I don't practice pixelsex and never cared about it so whatever form my avatar or any avatar has doesn't matter for me (you could be a bird and i would still find you interesting enough to talk to as long as you have the mental ability to make an intelligent conversation) so one day i told her one simple thing. If my mature human looking avatar was actually being controlled by a 12 year old kid would she be fascinated after having pixelsex with it. Of course she wouldn't be.

The funny part was when we talked over skype video call her reaction was "oh wow what are you doing in SL". Well not everyone is using SL for pixelsex or as an alternative/escape from reality. People also work here building stuff, selling lands, scripting or simply spending some of their time.

No need to get obsessed/confuse your brain with avatar looks and most important you simply never know what/who is on the other side of the line even if you have voice chat.

Edited by Nick0678
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About 15 days ago I caught a scene of pedophilia close to where I live ... I photographed to have the names of the avatars for me ... I reported it to LL, but the fact of never receiving a return, makes me intrigued and with doubts about the that was done. I think the whistleblower could be informed about what is done with his complaints. Then the photos I took for myself, I threw them away, I have a balanced family in RL and they were despicable images.

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