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estherbyrne

How far is to far with a Master

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Is it normal for a Master to need to know all of your avatars? Can a contract be changed and if so how do you with a Master that refuses to make any changes in the rules because you agreed to them when you first became his submissive. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, estherbyrne said:

Is it normal for a Master to need to know all of your avatars? Can a contract be changed and if so how do you with a Master that refuses to make any changes in the rules because you agreed to them when you first became his submissive. 

It's neither normal nor proper. It's intrusive. I've seen this kind of behavior before. It doesn't end well. You're an adult (perhaps the only one in the relationship) and are perfectly free to change the terms of a "contract" whenever you wish, and for whatever reason you wish. The only risk you take is the loss of his presence in your life. From the very little we know here, I suspect most of us will wonder if your greatest risk is in staying with him.

I also think you've also misspelled his title. The correct spelling is "asshat".

Good luck, Esther.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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1 hour ago, estherbyrne said:

Is it normal for a Master to need to know all of your avatars?

I wouldn't call it normal but it is not all that uncommon either.Some dominants are much more possessive than others and it comes through with wanting to know every time you are online with any avatar.  I won't say it's a red flag but it would definitely be an incompatibility to me.

 

1 hour ago, estherbyrne said:

Can a contract be changed and if so how do you with a Master that refuses to make any changes in the rules because you agreed to them when you first became his submissive.

A good dominant will periodically go over your rules and limits with you to see what has changed and where you want to go together.  Ask him to go over the rules with you and if he does not agree, find someone who will.

Let me say something else here.  Safe Sane and Consensual.  Once consent has been given that does NOT mean it is always given.  You always have the right to take it back.  Period.  If not with him then without him.  Life's too short to be wasting time with the wrong dominant. 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, estherbyrne said:

Is it normal for a Master to need to know all of your avatars? Can a contract be changed and if so how do you with a Master that refuses to make any changes in the rules because you agreed to them when you first became his submissive. 

Let me put this out first: a contract is NOT necessary between a Dom(me) and a sub. Of course, if you prefer to have one, then more power to you, but in my experience such a contract is often (ab)used by wannabe dominants who just want to have a plaything but who don't know the first thing about BDSM and it's guidelines. Having said that, such a contract should contain a Dom(me)'s responsibilities and obligations (providing care for sub, respecting sub's boundaries and limits, making sure physical and emotional safety is observed, etc) as well as the sub's. Also, it must be noted that such a contract would serve merely as a document to record what to expect from the other, and what the other expects. It is NOT legally binding in any sense.

Any real BDSM relationship is founded on trust. Without trust, it is impossible to submit because you don't know if they will respect your boundaries.
Remember that you, as a sub, are the one that REALLY is in control, a Dom(me) can not do anything that you don't let them. Moreover, if they do not respect your boundaries then that breaks trust and ruins the whole experience and potentially forever ruining a lifestyle which so many find fun and fulfilling.
This trust goes both ways though, a Dom(me) should trust YOU, they should trust that you will tell him what you are comfortable with and what you aren't, that you will reveal as much about yourself, your life, your alts, etc. as that you are comfortable with. Having said that, a good Dom(me) will try to push your boundaries without violating them whilst keeping your safe at the same time. They are responsible for your sense of security, for your safety and they are even responsible for your actions if you follow their command or orders.

Now, back to your question of whether a D/s contract can be changed, the answer to that is a resounding YES. It must be flexible to account for any changes in circumstances, new insights, altered likes/dislikes, etc. If your Dom(me) refuses to acknowledge this, then they negate on their responsibility to care for their sub, to keep the sub safe and this voids any kind of deal that the two of you have.

So, depending on how much you care about your Master, and how much you trust him, you should perhaps talk to him again, and if he remains as rigid as he seems, then you should drop him and forget about him and find someone that you CAN trust and to whom you can give yourself freely, without some kind of contract to dangle over your head.

EDIT: To come back to the question you asked in the title, how far is too far? Too far is when YOU feel uncomfortable, when you don't feel safe or protected, when you feel he is overstepping your boundaries. Too far is when he goes too far FOR YOU. As a sub, you still get to tell him to slow down, to back off even. If he makes you want to do something you do not want, then that should be the end of it. Period, end of story. 

 

Edited by Fritigern Gothly
Additional stuffs.
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Its not normal by any means and no they do not need to know all your avatars at all. You do not have to tell anyone all the avatars you have or what they are or why you have them ever.

If they refuse to change any of the rules, and it makes you feel uncomfortable, You do have the right to tell them and if they still refuse you have the right to leave them and not feel bad for doing so. They were not the right one for you. They did not respect your desires or needs or limits.

It is not the right of any Master to ever ignore your limits or desires ever. They are not in total control over everything all the time. You do have rights and powers as a sub or even slave that they cannot ever take from you.

As a sub you still have the responsibility to protect yourself from Masta's aka fake Masters which is what it sounds like you have.  Your relationship is currently non-existant if that is how he is acting.

Any relationship should be a two way street, where each side communicates and makes changes as needed. It is never just a one way street. Those kinds of relationships are just emotional and mental abuse relationships. NO Master is ever in complete total control over you and the rules like they may want to claim or think or say.

Sounds like you found a narcissist and not a true bdsm Master.

My advice leave him, runaway on your collar, and forget him and move on. There are better Masters than him out there. You dont need the drama or frustration or aggravation you will get by staying with him.

 

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Way too many folks approach SL kink  without as stringent a view of negotiated limits as they would have in RL. This is almost always a horrible mistake.

SL may be "virtual" but RL kink is at least 60% a "mind game" anyway - that part of it is as "real" in SL as it is in RL and should be approached with exactly the same caution, negotiation and requirement for trust and open/honest communication as in RL.

Anyone not respecting that is no real Dom. He's clearly overstepping your limits. Whether this was negotiated beforehand or not, you're still perfectly ok to safeword and step away. A Dom worthy of the name would be grateful to you for doing so and would thank you for communicating clearly while seeing to proper aftercare.

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1 hour ago, Syo Emerald said:

Kind of follows the age old meme, that most doms in SL are insecure aholes.

I was going to be nice and avoid saying it like that ... but yeah. 

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Posted (edited)

I have heard of contracts before from others.  But...  For me i just discussed the details with my dom...  such as limits and safe word.  But, if a situation were to come up and i feel uncomfortable, etc i say so.  I care about him.  So, nothing i say is used against me.  As far as the alts...  I wanted to comment on this.  I happen to share everything with my dom because i choose to do so.  Its nothing forced from a contract or anything verbal.  It depends on the relationship and what u feel comfortable with.  Sharing information on alts, etc should never be forced.  But, i do know and do agree that many doms on sl will take advantage of those new.  

Ester...  This is just an idea...  If you wish to have a dom and u enjoy being a sub.  There is a sim that i know of that is organized, has classes, has be around awhile now and has sub/ dom events on their sim to help match.  Your not forced to do any of these classes, events, etc.  Its set up where u can just go to the sim and talk to other subs and doms and u can participate or not.  Some people find they wish to people with only one dom.  I know both owners who are very nice people, patient and willing to talk to u, answer questions and show u around.  If your interested in a place like this it may be a good experience for u.  Let me know if you would like the sim LM.  I can even go with u and be there to introduce u if u like.

Edited by brie90212
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On 3/18/2020 at 12:42 PM, estherbyrne said:

Is it normal for a Master to need to know all of your avatars? Can a contract be changed and if so how do you with a Master that refuses to make any changes in the rules because you agreed to them when you first became his submissive. 

The fact that you've felt the need to ask this question here shows that your inner voice has doubts about your "Master".

It's your Second Life (or Second Lives if you have alts), and no one has the right to know who any of your alts are.  They are separate entities. You roleplay in world with a person roleplaying as a Master on THAT avatar only.  

 

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Also came up with another issue that he thinks that he can change the title of the girl from submissive to slave with out consent of the girl. He claimed at one time to be a rl Master but doesn't know the difference between what a bdsm submissive is and a gor slave is. He thinks they are interchangable. There is also the issue of doing things like rp a teacher, spending time with my sl children and going to events that interest me that I am not allowed to do. When I ask him he makes me feel bad for asking saying fine I will sit here alone. I know this is not how being a submissive is suppose to be so tonight I said i am done. 

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@estherbyrne you did the right thing.

If you need a "safe space" to set home on for a bit inworld, let me know. My workshop and space-station home are group-access only and I can create a spot for you separate from any place I would need to go so you would have your privacy. I may be "a dom" but I'm not "your dom" and therefore would not be making any assumptions if you chose to avail yourself of this. I would be giving you a safe private space for as long as you needed and not intruding.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, estherbyrne said:

Ok he is saying that being a submissive/slave can be the same thing and gave me this link to this site.  http://www.leathernroses.com/submission/moonfyrebeautyofsub.htm    I have told him i do not wish to role play as a slave.  Is there really no difference or is this just not how it works and there is a difference between the two.  

In my experience there is a massive difference but then every relationship is different.  Do your own research and don't just believe any website he sends you to if it doesn't feel the right fit for you

Edited by Cindy Evanier
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There is a massive difference, @estherbyrne . It may not seem that huge because it will sometimes be subtle but there is a difference and it's incredibly significant, particularly from the submissive side. A "submissive" gives of herself freely, placing herself in her masters hands trusting that she will be cherished and valued for the beauty of the gift she has made of herself. A "slave" does this too, but chooses to become her masters property, to do with as he wishes without the expectation that he will regard her feelings (although, even in this dynamic, a good and worthy "master" will have such regard) - in both cases obedience and compliance are required, and may be enforced according to the limits you agree between you, but I'm sure you can see the vast gulf between the two, even though what the couple actually do might be very similar. You may say "I am yours" and he may say "you are mine", but you both have to mean it in the same way, with the same expectations, for it to be a loving and fulfilling relationship.

 

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18 hours ago, estherbyrne said:

When I ask him he makes me feel bad for asking saying fine I will sit here alone.

There is a lot more wrong with that guy than just a twisted understanding of BDSM. You did the right thing to leave him.

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12 hours ago, estherbyrne said:

Is there really no difference or is this just not how it works and there is a difference between the two

Yes there is a difference.  There is a vast difference.  Just asking this question should show you that.  It's as big a difference as consent vs non-consent.

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You did the right thing by leaving him, I know it feels bad at first. I have had to do it a few times myself while learning. That is the game the emotionally and mentally abusive will try and play to try and make you stay with them.

Yes there is a difference between the two, I have been both in my time here in sl. They are not the same at all. The terms are not interchangeable. Not all submissive's are slaves. And not all slaves are submissive.

No Master ever has the right to change the role of someone under them ever. It is not their right to decide if you are slave or submissive or pet. That is for you to decide only.

You cannot believe what every tom dick and harry write on any website as the definitive truth as to what something is in regards to bdsm relationships. Many of these online bdms blogs are written by abusive delusional arrogant ignorant people who have no idea of what they speak of and rely on people being uneducated enough to believe them so they can take advantage of them.

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A big part of the problem is that I have other interest like working, spending time with my sl family and learning. He wishes me to ask before I go anywhere The problem with this is if he don't come on to ask I have to miss out and if he comes on he gives me this fine, go. I will just sit here alone. I am not responsible for his happiness on second life. He is the reason he pushed me away with him being so controlling. I have had one other Master in my past and he allowed me to have a life apart from him. 

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45 minutes ago, estherbyrne said:

 I have had one other Master in my past and he allowed me to have a life apart from him. 

Let me reword that in a way that more accurately expresses how the dynamic should work...

"I have had one other Master in my past and I did not allow him to deny me a life apart from him."

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3 hours ago, estherbyrne said:

A big part of the problem is that I have other interest like working, spending time with my sl family and learning. He wishes me to ask before I go anywhere The problem with this is if he don't come on to ask I have to miss out and if he comes on he gives me this fine, go. I will just sit here alone. I am not responsible for his happiness on second life. He is the reason he pushed me away with him being so controlling. I have had one other Master in my past and he allowed me to have a life apart from him. 

It is your right and choice to have these other wants and desires. a bdsm relationship is not always a 24/7 relationship unless that is what was wanted and agreed to. You do not have to be there for him every little moment he is online. He sounds like he is emotionally insecure or emotionally and mentally manipulative, in other words abusive. You are better off without him.

Nor do you need his express permission for every little thing you want to do. You only need his permission when you were spending time with him and 'playing' with him. when not in a rp, you dont have to just stand around or stay around for him to cuddle or be his personal trophy doll to show off to anyone who might come by. Which is what it sounds like he was trying to groom you to be.  which is a headgame a lot of fake dumbinant's in sl like to play.

Seriously sounds like he was trying to emotionally mentally and physically isolate you from everyone else so you would become dependent upon him and only him for any attention. That is not a safe relationship in any way shape or form. I had an owner that tried to do that with me that I had to leave eventually because of that reason. Isolation is not a game or something to be played with lightly in any form.

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Posted (edited)

It is about control and I put distance between us that I found my own place. In the past we had rented with others but the tier was $15000 lindens a week for one person. That is more then I can afford and more then not didn't pay on the land. Not that I really had much of a say as a submissive slave in saying anything about the land picked. We ended up splitting from the other two and I found a nice land that I could afford on my own. There was an issue with trees coming onto our land from a neighbor's land. Personally didn't see the big deal of this because it wasn't effecting anything on our land but he made a big stink out of it so I said let me handle it. He went on to tick off all the neighbors around us and the owner of the sim  who then removed his things from the land.  He said he would not be returning to the land. At the time wanted to try and work it out so picked up to a land where we would split the rent so we could remain together. He ran into some rl money issues so I was left paying on the land alone. I said I can't afford this and then started looking for something cheaper that I could do on my own. He got mad about this because I didn't talk about moving to him first. I made it clear that now as long as I am paying on the land whether alone or half I have a say in where we live and how much I put in money wise. He didn't like that. He said well in the past I didn't pay on the land we shared with the others. I said yes because for one I had no say in the land at the time because of my position in the family. and two I could not afford 15000 lindens a month for tiers. I am not that rich. He said I had a say but I reminded him that after he ticked everyone off about the trees he refuse to set foot on the land so In truth he gave me no choice but to move if we were to stay together. It is funny how he also complained about my second life kids living off me but it is ok for him to live off me. I told him that the house they lived in cost me only 200 lindens a month. That really is small fries. Yes they don't help but 50 lindens a week is really not an issue for land considering you aren't paying me anything either to live on the land. Am happy to be free to have a life again and do things I enjoy on second life 

Edited by estherbyrne
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1 hour ago, estherbyrne said:

Am happy to be free to have a life again and do things I enjoy on second life 

good on you esther

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