Anyone encountered really mean people on here?

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm sorry, but I disagree. This is a highly relativistic view of behaviour. It is possible to evaluate someone's comportment here with some degree of objectivity -- if one is not oneself too engaged in the in-fighting -- and establish that they are operating from principles of real integrity, as well as a concern for the community.

That "right vs. wrong" is often a difficult distinction to make is more a function of our own inability to view things objectively. It doesn't mean that these things don't exist. And the criteria are really pretty simple, despite the murkiness of judgement. Is "x" a humane person? Do they think about human, emotional, psychological, and other costs associated with their views? Are they more interested in "winning" than in changing minds and educating? And so on.

The forums aren't Lord of the Flies. It needn't be that way, and mostly it isn't. I could, without thinking very hard about it, name at least a dozen people here who demonstrate a consistent degree of integrity, honesty, and caring, despite their involvement in debates and discussions.

that is your perspective and opinion on it,  it doesn't make it any more or any less true. Everything in life is a matter of perspective even if some are unwilling to understand this. There is no good or evil in anything, these are constructs created and not proven facts. there is no universal good or evil in the world. What is evil to one may not be to another. A thief stealing things to sell is evil to some but to the family they feed, they are not. Which does not make either side wrong or correct. Each side just has their own perspective view of the situation and opinion, everyone has the right to have, but it doesnt make theirs any more correct or less correct than someone elses.

Those same people who you see as helpful or good could be seen by others as rude or obnoxious or sarcastic. Its all a matter of how you or someone else chose to see it.

life is relativistic even if some dont want to accept that fact.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[Harper Held]

'Cept it's really not tho

[Harper Held]

I mean, I suppose I could type out more words, but to tell the truth the appropriate response to relativistic both-siderism can be boiled down to just two words.

Sadly, we're not allowed to write that specific two word combination on this forum.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Han Held

[Scylla Rhiadra]

34 minutes ago, Han Held said:

I mean, I suppose I could type out more words, but to tell the truth the appropriate response to relativistic both-siderism can be boiled down to just two words.

Sadly, we're not allowed to write that specific two word combination on this forum.

/me heads over to VVO to learn what the two word combination might be.

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

ts all a matter of how you or someone else chose to see it.

life is relativistic even if some dont want to accept that fact.

You could not judge whether sexually abusing a child is absolutely either right or wrong?

Edited May 30, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

that is your perspective and opinion on it,  it doesn't make it any more or any less true.

Um, well . . . no, no it doesn't. Like pretty much every other human here, I don't have access to Absolute Truth, nor do angels whisper timeless verities in my ear. What I've said is pretty much by definition my "perspective" and "opinion," and, no, the fact that I've uttered it doesn't make it "any more or less true."

Just like everyone else here, and pretty much anywhere.

But at least on this much we can agree?

The rest of your post is really little more than a restatement of what you've already said: that "right" and "wrong" are a function of relative perspective. Which is, of course, always going to be true to some degree . . . but you seem to be suggesting that this is all that needs to be said on the matter. It's not a very nuanced approach, and you provide not a great deal of detail.

How far would you take this? You seem to be talking about moral relativism here . . . I think? Are there things that I might consider "crimes" -- fraud, murder, etc. -- that you wouldn't, because of your particular "perspective"? If we can agree that there are some absolutes upon which we agree, what distinguishes these from the moral values that you see as "relative"? Where are the "borders" here?

If we hold nothing in common, how is it we are communicating, now, in a civil form, in terms that we both more or less understand?

Edited May 30, 2020 by Scylla Rhiadra

[kiramanell]

6 hours ago, Han Held said:

I mean, I suppose I could type out more words, but to tell the truth the appropriate response to relativistic both-siderism can be boiled down to just two words.

Sadly, we're not allowed to write that specific two word combination on this forum.

 

Haven'y had my morning coffee yet, but my noney is on BS.  

Edited May 30, 2020 by kiramanell

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

9 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

You could not judge whether sexually abusing a child is absolutely either right or wrong?

at the end of the day it doesn't matter how i see it, what matters is how the person doing it see's it and how the person that it is being done to see's it. would i call it evil.. no.. wrong..yes; but that again is just my opinion and doesn't make it right or true. everything is a matter of personal perspective and opinion, there is not ultimate good or evil right or wrong in the universe.

good and evil are relative terms and subjective terms and change as the times change.

just look at the health care world, doctors are always changing their opinion on what is healthy or not, good or not for you to do or eat. same happens in the courts.

a person who kills another to protect their family is often considered the good guy at the end of the day, but were they really? not in all cases. 

a country overthrowing another because it didn't agree with the culture of that other country are they they good guys or the bad guys, that is a matter of opinion.

if you give money to a homeless person on the streets are you helping them or harming them, that is a matter of perspective and opinion.

morals and ethics are all matters of perspective and opinion and personal experience, there is no set rule book and never really was.

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

9 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

You could not judge whether sexually abusing a child is absolutely either right or wrong?

at the end of the day it doesnt matter how i see it, what matters is how the person doing it see's it and how the person that it is being done to see's it. would i call it evil.. no.. wrong..maybe. that again is just my opinion and doesnt make it right or true.

Humans develop notions of fairness and justice via their relationships with early caregivers (this is how we develop a conscience). Of course sociopaths, psychopaths, and to a lesser degree narcissists don't have this conscience, but this is an aberration, and theories point to a brain deficiency, inadequate parenting, or some sort of combination to account for it.

Anyway, our morals are based on our conscience, and so notions of right or wrong are created from human contact with others. Although it can be difficult to suss out what is actually just or fair in any situation I believe if we have all the facts we could determine it., and so there is (in theory) an absolute right and wrong.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Humans develop notions of fairness and justice via their relationships with early caregivers (this is how we develop a conscience). Of course sociopaths, psychopaths, and to a lesser degree narcissists don't have this conscience, but this is an aberration, and theories point to a brain deficiency, inadequate parenting, or some sort of combination to account for it.

Anyway, our morals are based on our conscience, and so notions of right or wrong are created from human contact with others. Although it can be difficult to suss out what is actually just or fair in any situation I believe if we have all the facts we could determine it., and so there is (in theory) an absolute right and wrong.

that is a matter of opinion, not fact. even with the best parenting in the world a person can change and become the complete opposite of what they were taught, even without any sort of brain issues. even with the best social experiences in the world this change can still happen over time if personal experience is changed. their view of right or wrong, good or evil will become changed as they continue to grow and learn. what they once tolerated or accepted will alter. humans are a complex engine that always changes and adapts to what ever is presented before them if they wish to survive.

there is no absolute anything except that one day you will die. and with technology constantly changing even one day that will not be true anymore. and when death is removed from the equation and fear of the so called biblical punishment after death people will change even further on what is allowed or accepted or not.

good and evil, right and wrong are subjective to the possible punishment received if caught. not everyone fears the punishments. and not because they have some sort of personality or brain disorder either and not because they had bad parenting. not everyone fears the same things the same way or at all.

conscience changes over time as you grown and learn and experience new things that challenge what you once accepted was normal.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[Scylla Rhiadra]

 

 

41 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

[all sorts of not very well thought-out stuff]

And is the truth of relativism an absolute?

Or are my beliefs in a non-relative (if still difficult to apprehend) existence not as valid, relatively speaking, as yours?

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

 

And is the truth of relativism an absolute?

Or are my beliefs in a non-relative (if still difficult to apprehend) existence not as valid, relatively speaking, as yours?

there are no absolutes and at the end of the day no ones opinion is more valid or less valid than anyone else. you shouldn't really care what others think or feel about what you say or think or feel or believe; you shouldn't really seek validation from others. for then they have the power to control your perspective of the world. never a good thing.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

there are no absolutes and at the end of the day no ones opinion is more valid or less valid than anyone else. you shouldn't really care what others think or feel about what you say or think or feel or believe; you shouldn't really seek validation from others. for then they have the power to control your perspective of the world. never a good thing.

Um. Do you not see the self-contradiction in asserting that relative truths are an absolute truth? This is a pretty basic logical fallacy.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Um. Do you not see the self-contradiction in asserting that relative truths are an absolute truth? This is a pretty basic logical fallacy.

its all relative and and all perspective based and none are absolute except in the mind of the beholder. which neither makes it wrong or correct for everyone is entitled to have an opinion or view that disagree's with someone else, which does not make theirs correct or the others wrong except within their own mindset.

and logic and rational thinking is often wrong. it was once believed that man could not fly or ever would, or that the earth was flat, or that man cannot survive in outerspace or make it to the moon, yet all have been done.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Drakonadrgora Darkfold

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

its all relative and and all perspective based and none are absolute except in the mind of the beholder. which neither makes it wrong or correct for everyone is entitled to have an opinion or view that disagree's with someone else, which does not make theirs correct or the others wrong except within their own mindset.

Ok. I give up: you're just repeating the same garbled and illogical nonsense in slightly different words as though it were a catechism learned by rote.

Have a relatively nice day.

[kiramanell]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Ok. I give up: you're just repeating the same garbled and illogical nonsense in slightly different words as though it were a catechism learned by rote.

Have a relatively nice day.

 

^^ I see what you did there! ❤️

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Ok. I give up: you're just repeating the same garbled and illogical nonsense in slightly different words as though it were a catechism learned by rote.

Have a relatively nice day.

oh, I will.. for i will be spending it with family later.

[Luna Bliss]

23 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

there are no absolutes and at the end of the day no ones opinion is more valid or less valid than anyone else. you shouldn't really care what others think or feel about what you say or think or feel or believe; you shouldn't really seek validation from others. for then they have the power to control your perspective of the world. never a good thing.

Nobody is an island.  When you want to believe you are, and become overly individualistic, then your philosophy tends to become distorted. 

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

conscience changes over time as you grown and learn and experience new things that challenge what you once accepted was normal.

I never said what someone determines is fair or just does not change over time. I only pointed out the way humans (via development of a conscience in early life, through relationships with others) tend to believe in a non-relative view of what is right or wrong.   It's based on community for the most part and not ONLY individualism.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[kiramanell]

25 minutes ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

oh, I will.. for i will be spending it with family later.

 

That too was funny.  

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Nobody is an island.  When you want to believe you are, and become overly individualistic, then your philosophy tends to become distorted. 

I am; I'm bloody Ibiza

[Luna Bliss]

49 minutes ago, Pixieplumb Flanagan said:

5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Nobody is an island.  When you want to believe you are, and become overly individualistic, then your philosophy tends to become distorted. 

I am; I'm bloody Ibiza

COME BACK, PIXIE!!!!!!     

[Luna Bliss]

An interesting read, a theory about where morals come from:

https://philosophybreak.com/articles/where-do-morals-come-from/

[Gatogateau]

8 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Um. Do you not see the self-contradiction in asserting that relative truths are an absolute truth? This is a pretty basic logical fallacy.

/me knocks lightly on your monitor. "Pssst. I don't know what thread it was, given the participants it was probably closed by monitors, but *certain people* when pointed out that whatever they were blathering on about that day were fallacies followed by fallacies followed by plain old 'huh?', replied back that it wasn't their job to be logical. They were around just to argue. Because they can." That's a paraphrase, but close enough to scroll past a nimrod who has zero desire to interact reasonably.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, Gatogateau said:

/me knocks lightly on your monitor. "Pssst. I don't know what thread it was, given the participants it was probably closed by monitors, but *certain people* when pointed out that whatever they were blathering on about that day were fallacies followed by fallacies followed by plain old 'huh?', replied back that it wasn't their job to be logical. They were around just to argue. Because they can." That's a paraphrase, but close enough to scroll past a nimrod who has zero desire to interact reasonably.

So noted!