Future of the metaverse, and all that

[Maryanne Solo]

Wow this thread has gotten exciting!.
With some heavyweight, supremely admired contributors. 🤩
I say...
Take the best of Sansar & the best of SL, make a new "life" engine with all the bells & whistles,
with some excellent new name, .... like...... "Future life"(🙄🤭) or something. 
Invite SL's best & proven live theatre stage performers like Guerilla Burlesque and start with monthly performances,
fashion shows, or comedy, "performance showcases" or... something leading edge.
24hr World news service with super cool avies?
Use the meta harper programmable camera system or a newer version of it.
Invite the best mesh makers and make it a showcase of interwebs & tech 2022 onwards.
With the connectivity of Teams/Zoom etc.
Have adult stuff/huge areas for subscribers or something? (Have it teen safe).
And give current reckless & suspicious activity social media platforms a nasty kicking while they're down. (FB for example).
LL is superbly positioned. They'd have to police it though and enforce the chosen standards. 
Adds *Shows like David Attenborough's nature shows. 😮😍
-> LifeFlix lololol

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Maryanne Solo
Went animal.

[Mollymews]

On 10/9/2021 at 9:13 AM, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Can't believe Zuck can't afford to add legs to his toons.

might be that on Facebook 2D it only costs a arm and a leg. On 3D Facebook then the cost went up to two legs

and they probably came for the arm later on unless maybe pay a rental fee, in which case you can keep both arms unlike them one arm no legs people

 

[Coffee Pancake]

4 hours ago, Maryanne Solo said:

Take the best of Sansar & the best of SL, make a new "life" engine with all the bells & whistles,

Something like this has to happen, but the only way we get there is for LL to start putting some serious time and investment into designing a true open metaverse and then creating a roadmap to migrate from what we have here taking all of us with them. No new platform we all have to go join, a new platform that grows under us and importantly, grows beyond LL's walled garden.

Addressing SL's many "issues" is not the solution when the problems are fundamental. We've been locked into a cycle of "fix the boogs" for far too long.

 

[ChinRey]

3 hours ago, Mollymews said:

might be that on Facebook 2D it only costs a arm and a leg. On 3D Facebook then the cost went up to two legs

It makes sense. You don't really want to go to Facebook unarmed, do you?

[Ardy Lay]

8 hours ago, Maryanne Solo said:

Wow this thread has gotten exciting!.
With some heavyweight, supremely admired contributors. 🤩
I say...
Take the best of Sansar & the best of SL, make a new "life" engine with all the bells & whistles,
with some excellent new name, .... like...... "Future life"(🙄🤭) or something. 
Invite SL's best & proven live theatre stage performers like Guerilla Burlesque and start with monthly performances,
fashion shows, or comedy, "performance showcases" or... something leading edge.
24hr World news service with super cool avies?
Use the meta harper programmable camera system or a newer version of it.
Invite the best mesh makers and make it a showcase of interwebs & tech 2022 onwards.
With the connectivity of Teams/Zoom etc.
Have adult stuff/huge areas for subscribers or something? (Have it teen safe).
And give current reckless & suspicious activity social media platforms a nasty kicking while they're down. (FB for example).
LL is superbly positioned. They'd have to police it though and enforce the chosen standards. 
Adds *Shows like David Attenborough's nature shows. 😮😍
-> LifeFlix lololol

 

 

3 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Something like this has to happen, but the only way we get there is for LL to start putting some serious time and investment into designing a true open metaverse and then creating a roadmap to migrate from what we have here taking all of us with them. No new platform we all have to go join, a new platform that grows under us and importantly, grows beyond LL's walled garden.

Addressing SL's many "issues" is not the solution when the problems are fundamental. We've been locked into a cycle of "fix the boogs" for far too long.

 

What incentive exists to compel Linden Lab to design "a true and open metaverse"?  I already tried "I said so", that didn't work.  I am not sure your definition of "open" and my definition of "open" in this context are the same.  I suspect someone in charge at Linden Lab thought I meant to give away the product source code for the current service product as had been done with the source code for the client.  This is NOT what I meant.  I simply wanted the PROTOCOLS clearly documented and authentication and authorization and content licensing intent to be implemented in such a way as to allow products of creativity to be moved from system to system where it complies with the content license for that product.  This would necessarily require the terms of content licenses to be structured and not the deviant messes that individuals will invariably craft if left to their own devices.  My intent was to allow content to be carried along to the next generation of the Second Life Service, and, optionally, in compliance with creative-license-applied, be transferable to other compatible services.

After reading about and subsequently studying some of the most salient content in Second Life, I cannot say I am sure this transfer should be permitted without SEVERE structural restrictions.

[Coffee Pancake]

21 minutes ago, Ardy Lay said:

After reading about and subsequently studying some of the most salient content in Second Life, I cannot say I am sure this transfer should be permitted without SEVERE structural restrictions.

The solution to bad content is to make it irrelevant and that's accomplished by advancing the platform.

 

 

[animats]

31 minutes ago, Ardy Lay said:

 I simply wanted the PROTOCOLS clearly documented and authentication and authorization and content licensing intent to be implemented in such a way as to allow products of creativity to be moved from system to system where it complies with the content license for that product. 

Having re-implemented most of SL's protocols in Rust, protocols are not the problem. There's a fair amount of documentation, and you can look at both the viewer code and Open Simulator. (Here's my re-implementation of Linden Lab Structured Data in Rust if anybody cares.) The main problem is that they're all non-standard.

Asset portability is an interesting concept. I previously described how SL no-copy objects could be tied to non-fungible tokens so that you could move objects between SL and other grids. I personally don't want to do that, because most NFT are Make Money Fast schemes, and most NFT content is crap. It's technically possible, though.

To users, it would be a vendor system, like CasperVend. You buy an object from a vendor, and it's delivered to you, no-copy, no-mod. You also get an event recorded on a blockchain that says Object A belongs to user B and is currently on grid C. if you want to move it to another grid, you can take it to a transfer portal in-world and send it to yourself on another grid.

Objects set up this way would have scripts which check, on rez and once a day or so, if they're authorized for the grid they're currently rezzed on. If not, they send a message to the owner and self-delete.

To creators, you have to have a copy of the object in a dropbox on each grid where you allow sales.

Users active on more than one grid would need a crypto wallet to track their NFTs.

None of this requires LL involvement.

It's worth thinking about as major brands get into NFTs.

Own a licensed Gucci item in Roblox for about US $800. Impress your shallow friends.

We could even have a HUD which allows you to click on other people's stuff and check if it's a properly licensed overpriced copy. It would call out to a blockchain node and check for the record that says A owns B on grid C. There could be orbs in clubs to eject phonies.

I'm not personally interested in doing this, not being into branded merchandise. If someone wants to do it, go for it.

[Maryanne Solo]

I had not considered my own RL designs as NFT's.
I've been too busy laughing at the bitcoiners heave-ho of a journey.
Interesting to see its already being done. (licensed RL products - which to me may as well be a gacha).
My opinion is  the Dionysus IS suss because its not from the hand of the original designer.
"Licensed" = see avatar piccy. 😆  
I'd consider this when portability relates to about 10 different destinations, because my dream was always to create things that were purely digital.
I got horribly sidetracked with creating in precious metals, (from mesh), simply because of the astounding quality and beauty of the finished articles.
I wouldn't change that for anything now but I could certainly have genuine affordable digital ones. 🤔

Edited October 15, 2021 by Maryanne Solo
Added to

[Mollymews]

i have been watching The Billion Dollar Code on Netflix which is a dramatisation of Terravision. Link here: https://artcom.de/en/?project=terravision

in 1994 these then students built The Terraverse. A working model integrating virtuality with the realworld. Basically being inspired by Snowcrash

I think this is still the future

and in some remote outposts of the Terraverse will be a space for pseudo-anonymity (conceptually similar to SL account type) but this will only be a tiny part of the whole I think 

Terraverse to Metaverse path is to add planets then whole alternative star systems. The great majority of people tho I think will stay on Terra, and be their real world Terran selves doing real world things that are virtually enabled/enhanced

[Chris Corvinus]

 

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

Something I feel a lot of people are assuming here is that a company is going to create/make the metaverse for commercial reasons, ie profit.

However, this is not in accordance with how much of the framework necessary for an electronic metaverse came about. The internet was assembled by diverse organisations, and there is little evidence that any one company can claim the right to go Mwuhahahaha - We roolz teh wurld.

It just happened according to what people at the time wanted. The profiteers/data-obsessed groups just latched onto what they saw as a good thing. Certainly, there was a desire for profit among the participants, but in a parochial way.

Edited October 16, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Coffee Pancake]

Corporate take over of the internet is focused entirely on containing users in their respective pools as much as possible. Time on facebook directly relates to the ad revenue facebook generates from that user. If they could block linking to other websites entirely (and force all major content publishers to republish everything inside the FB walled garden) they would in a heartbeat (under the guise of customer safety). It's AOL all over again.

This kind of all circles back to how we end up paying for the internet and services on it, the only way to break the current direction is to move away from ad & consumer metric supported sites, which will probably take legislation to accomplish.

Any true metaverse has to be developed around the web's founding concepts, not around corporate walled gardens that happen to run in a browser / on your computer.

This is why I believe LL should throw open the server code and allow everyone and anyone to host their own regions. Regions owners then pay LL a fee to connect to the SL grid giving them access to the asset data licensed for use on the SL service.

 

[ChinRey]

8 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

there is little evidence that any one company can claim the right to go Mwuhahahaha - We roolz teh wurld.

Some of them would love to though.

 

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Corporate take over of the internet is focused entirely on containing users in their respective pools as much as possible.

Yes and I think the bottom line here is that although there are lots of reasons why a big IT corporation wants to talk up an internet style open metaverse, there are few, if any, reasons why they would want it to actually happen.

[Quistess Alpha]

13 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This is why I believe LL should throw open the server code and allow everyone and anyone to host their own regions. Regions owners then pay LL a fee to connect to the SL grid giving them access to the asset data licensed for use on the SL service.

Hmm, but won't that lead to a bunch of poorly performing regions when people start hosting them on potatoes?

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Quistess Alpha said:

Hmm, but won't that lead to a bunch of poorly performing regions when people start hosting them on potatoes?

There is that potential, but it's no different from any other web service.

I can host a Minecraft server on junk, doesn't mean anyone will want to play on it.

[Ted McGregor]

28 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This is why I believe LL should throw open the server code and allow everyone and anyone to host their own regions. Regions owners then pay LL a fee to connect to the SL grid giving them access to the asset data licensed for use on the SL service.

Because of copyright, or better DRM, this is impossible. The inventory travels with the avatar with each teleport. It' s also the reason LL backed out of Opensim altogether. Not going to happen. 

ETA : It would at least require that all assets of everyone would become a CC license. 

Edited October 16, 2021 by TDD123

[Coffee Pancake]

8 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

Because of copyright, or better DRM, this is impossible. The inventory travels with the avatar with each teleport. It' s also the reason LL backed out of Opensim altogether. Not going to happen. 

Inventory does not travel with the avatar. Inventory in the viewer (even your avatar) just references data held on LL servers.

On an open grid, rezzing your avatar on region that was not paying the connection fee to LL (and thereby licenced to access SL hosted content) would deny that avatar access to all inventory hosted on LL services. The viewer wouldn't even be able to get a list of said inventory. If the avatar is paying a connection fee to LL, then they would see inventory and have their avatar assets, but they would be unable to rez content on a none licensed region.

 

 

[Ted McGregor]

6 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Inventory does not travel with the avatar. Inventory in the viewer (even your avatar) just references data held on LL servers.

On an open grid, rezzing your avatar on region that was not paying the connection fee to LL (and thereby licenced to access SL hosted content) would deny that avatar access to all inventory hosted on LL services. The viewer wouldn't even be able to get a list of said inventory. If the avatar is paying a connection fee to LL, then they would see inventory and have their avatar assets, but they would be unable to rez content on a none licensed region.

First : this will still not prevent hosted regions stealing data from said users travelling to their regions if the service was paid for by the host. 

And .. if implemented .. how much do you think such a fee would cost whilst pricing of regions within LL's own grid are high already ? Why would anyone pay such high fees ? 

Besides that, you are also bypassing the financial system LL put into place. They will not share it with others. 

Too many caveats.

[Coffee Pancake]

9 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

First : this will still not prevent hosted regions stealing data from said users travelling to their regions if the service was paid for by the host. 

The possibility of piracy will always exist. Any region host caught engaging in content theft from a licensed grid should come with a ban. This is not a novel problem.

9 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

And .. if implemented .. how much do you think such a fee would cost whilst pricing of regions within LL's own grid are high already ? Why would anyone pay such high fees ? 

Fee's should be reduced as the region wouldn't be hosted by LL.

9 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

Besides that, you are also bypassing the financial system LL put into place. They will not share it with others. 

Paying to connect a region to a grid should also include access to the finical services offered by said grid. In the case of LL's grid, that would include the L$. Different grids would be free to implement any finical system they desired and would be liable for any fees that incurred.

9 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

Too many caveats.

Do better.

[Ted McGregor]

7 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Do better.

I doubt I can do better than Diva, one of Opensims coders, who already years back described why the hypergrid is unacceptable to Lindenlab.

They will not opensource their server code. It would be to their own detriment. 

ETA : FYI I'm not a coder. 

Edited October 16, 2021 by TDD123

[Mr Amore]

To many around the Internet, Star Citizen is a scam. But I've had a good time with the alpha, it is the ultimate space fantasy.

This is a summary of their recent citizencon with insights into their technology. Metaverses can adopt aspects of their procedural planet generation, and the server architecture too. With a central server holding details of every object in the 'verse and relaying it to the player's instance.

It's nothing ground breaking, but good to see actual progress in the MMO space.

 

Edited October 16, 2021 by Mr Amore

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

I doubt I can do better than Diva, one of Opensims coders, who already years back described why the hypergrid is unacceptable to Lindenlab.

They will not open the server source. It would be to their own detriment. 

ETA : FYI I'm not a coder. 

Times change. The metaverse is happening, and LL have an opportunity to capitalize on their position and win by becoming ubiquitous.

1 minute ago, Mr Amore said:

Metaverses can adopt aspects their procedural planet generation, and the server architecture too.

There is no reason why an open grid based on LL's platform couldn't have regions that offered unique features, like procedural landscapes or infinite worlds.

 

 

[Ted McGregor]

3 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Times change. The metaverse is happening, and LL have an opportunity to capitalize on their position and win by becoming ubiquitous.

That's is not the intend of the corporation they are. They want profit. They don't desire ubiquity.

Edited October 16, 2021 by TDD123

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, TDD123 said:

That's is not the intend of the corporation they are. They want profit. They don't desire ubiquity.

There is no profit in irrelevance.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This is why I believe LL should throw open the server code and allow everyone and anyone to host their own regions.

It's not everyday I agree with you but this one gets my vote

Edited October 16, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku