Jump to content

Future of the metaverse, and all that


animats
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, animats said:

There seems to be a niche for these meeting systems.

"niche" as in only the staff of the company that offers the service use it and only within the company.

I don't see that environment being attractive to corporate execs versus making Zoom calls.

AR meetings with holograms of employees recording in real time would be more attractive than Wii-Office.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, animats said:

(Why is everyone legless in Facebook products? To prevent any possibility of sex. Really.)

Fox News definitely won't be buying a copy. They pride themself on showing legs on and off camera even with their "mentor" long gone.

Edited by Lucia Nightfire
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, animats said:

Facebook has a new VR offering, "Facebook Workrooms". Facebook Workrooms is the office version of Facebook Horizons. Similarly, Breakroom is the office version of Sinespace. There seems to be a niche for these meeting systems.

cfecabb7975657f47faefa6bad5a741ec3-metav

First reviews indicate that the visuals are poor (see above) but the spatial audio is very good. You can reportedly turn your head and talk to your neighbor without bothering others. They also have a usable whiteboard and presentation system.

SL could be a player in this if the SL onboarding process wasn't such a botch. SL used to try for this business. Visit "Boardroom" to see the prim-era SL equivalent.

(Why is everyone legless in Facebook products? To prevent any possibility of sex. Really.)

 

I dunno, hindsight being 20/20 .. I think the whole idea of virtual meetings has about the same legs as FB's avatars.

We've done this, it was junk.

If this was put in place at a real business they would still want to see everyone's face on zoom (at the same time) or have them all come into the actual office to participate. I get that makes no sense .. that's how business numbers business think these days.

I'm sure there will be some experimentation .. and some bright spark will point out FB probably tracked and recorded the entire thing so maybe not talk about confidential business stuff on it .. and maybe we should all have a couple of meetings in the office to go over this, and a zoom call to set up those meetings obviously, pencil that in after the Thursday afternoon team culture exercise at the local brewery?

 

There is also a huge class divide here that the corporate thumb twiddlers don't see. People working a little lower on the food chain don't have meetings .. they have schedules.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I think the whole idea of virtual meetings has about the same legs as FB's avatars.

I'm not sure. It beats getting on a plane to go to another city to spend an hour in a meeting.

I have yet to see a good convention in a virtual world. Someone must have done it by now. But nether GDC or SIGGRAPH, which actually charge to visit the "virtual exhibit hall" and presumably have access to good graphics people, did that at all well this year.

LL has a large number of shopping events, and that works reasonably well. It would work even better if the viewers loaded assets faster and in a more useful order, so you spent less time staring at blurs.

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, animats said:

I'm not sure. It beats getting on a plane to go to another city to spend an hour in a meeting.

I used to love doing that.

1 minute ago, animats said:

I have yet to see a good convention in a virtual world. Someone must have done it by now. But nether GDC or SIGGRAPH, which actually charge to visit the "virtual exhibit hall" and presumably have access to good graphics people, did that at all well this year.

This is it .. only it's not a new shiny thing FB just invented, SL has been trying this one for a decade. Even the very best events are fatiguing in ways an in person convention isn't. Force that into VR and it's a high stress situation.

1 minute ago, animats said:

LL has a large number of shopping events, and that works reasonably well. It would work even better if the viewers loaded assets faster and in a more useful order, so you spent less time staring at blurs.

Typically you can do a shopping event in 20-30 minutes (we do a lot of them), the mega events LL have done miss that mark and have just been miserable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We've done this, it was junk.

SL never had any adequate presentation tools and that alone was more than enough reason why it was doomed to fail as a platform for conferencing and classroom teaching.

I do not know whether virtual world conferences are a viable or not idea but the experiences from Second Life are irrelevant.

Edited by ChinRey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Mr Amore said:

An informative video here on that other metaverse.

TLDR. Exploitative practices exploit children.

The word "Game" in his arguments is doing a tremendous amount of heavy lifting.

Imagine SL if land was free, we could all have as much as we liked to build anything we wanted, and everything everyone built was called "a game". At some point LL have to start clawing back money to pay the insane server bills, I wonder who's going to be paying the lions share of the bills....

The comparisons with steam are knowingly misleading, steam is just a marketplace, they do not develop all the game engines, provide all the tools or host and provide server space to run all the games.

But the "think of the children" angle when it comes to Roblox is going to get him far more traction. Lets feel sorry for the child who made a game and didn't succeed on his first try, because that's not at all representative of the actual experience indie game developers have on the other "fairer" platforms.

Of course established developers win more and get a huge boost with everything they do. That's how literally everything works.

To put this in SL terms - Are LL exploiting you if you build a club and no one comes - even if they gave you everything you needed, including the land, for free ... 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, animats said:

Second Life can do all that.

and we don't look like budget children's cartoons. FB workrooms looks horrid. 😒

I would like a good interactive 3d virtual whiteboard system though. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

and we don't look like budget children's cartoons. FB workrooms looks horrid. 😒

I would like a good interactive 3d virtual whiteboard system though. 

Yeah, "Media on a prim" really let us down on that one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Akane Nacht said:

I would like a good interactive 3d virtual whiteboard system though. 

There are various whiteboards on Marketplace. Not great, given the limitations of displaying text in SL, but sort of OK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've tried using autodraw on media on a prim. Works alright, I just hate using a mouse to draw.

I'd like to write normally in a 3d virtual space, but I'm never going to use those goggles.

I admit it, what I actually want is a holodeck. 

Edited by Akane Nacht
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When discussing something like a "Metaverse" we have to be careful not to be swept away on a tide of marketing and PR rubbish.

The whole situation is much more nuanced from an ontological and epistemological perspective than the corporate marketeers might have us believe. If for no other reason than, if we get it wrong, it has huge implications for society in terms of mental health and psychology at a very fundamental level.

I won't bore you with a huge swathe of text, but the concept of the "metaverse" sits on a continuum which also includes that of the "omniverse" and the "universe".

How we relate to and inhabit this continuum depends on how we view identity as conscious beings (none of us are true indivisible "individuals" in the strictest sense).

Following on from this we should think about whether any view and/or context provides for "omnipresence" or "multipresence" or simple "telepresence".. again all of which have huge implications for our psyche.

I'm no expert by any means - I don't think anyone is at this point - but I'm currently working in this area in RL. So if you're interested and open to sharing ideas (even if it's to call BS on my ideas😀) then say hello in SL (account name is the same).

One of my favourite quotes and one which guides some of my ideas in this area is from Walt Whitman

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

In my view, any "Metaverse" worthy of the name really needs to support this aspect of ourselves.

Edited by SynesthetiQ
remove lots of whitespace.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, SynesthetiQ said:

When discussing something like a "Metaverse" we have to be careful not to be swept away on a tide of marketing and PR rubbish.

The whole situation is much more nuanced from an ontological and epistemological perspective than the corporate marketeers might have us believe. If for no other reason than, if we get it wrong, it has huge implications for society in terms of mental health and psychology at a very fundamental level.

I won't bore you with a huge swathe of text, but the concept of the "metaverse" sits on a continuum which also includes that of the "omniverse" and the "universe".

How we relate to and inhabit this continuum depends on how we view identity as conscious beings (none of us are true indivisible "individuals" in the strictest sense).

Following on from this we should think about whether any view and/or context provides for "omnipresence" or "multipresence" or simple "telepresence".. again all of which have huge implications for our psyche.

I'm no expert by any means - I don't think anyone is at this point - but I'm currently working in this area in RL. So if you're interested and open to sharing ideas (even if it's to call BS on my ideas😀) then say hello in SL (account name is the same).

One of my favourite quotes and one which guides some of my ideas in this area is from Walt Whitman

"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,
(I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

In my view, any "Metaverse" worthy of the name really needs to support this aspect of ourselves.

IMO, we are still at a technologically infant stage to even achieve any resemblance of a true metaverse.

VR and AR environments can't isolate us enough from our RL, nor can they override all the senses to fully immerse ourself into an alternative state of "existence" or consciousness.

Full dive technology and/or significant advances in cybernetics and/or AI are necessary first.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

IMO, we are still at a technologically infant stage to even achieve any resemblance of a true metaverse.

VR and AR environments can't isolate us enough from our RL, nor can they override all the senses to fully immerse ourself into an alternative state of "existence" or consciousness.

Full dive technology and/or significant advances in cybernetics and/or AI are necessary first.

Those all sound like one-way trips to me.  Is this what <insert scope of people here> want?

I love Second Life for what it is.  I can say I could probably love what it, or something else becomes, if they are enablers for both able-bodied souls wanting to retain their real-world lives AND those whose real-world existence is self-perceived to be a limiting factor in their being.

I seem to feel that I want the possibility to take a trip into a metaverse to explore and reflect once my real body becomes a burden to me, and that I am free to pass-on in the old fashioned way when I am ready, but now I am getting maudlin and should stop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, SynesthetiQ said:

The whole situation is much more nuanced from an ontological and epistemological perspective than the corporate marketeers might have us believe.

I thin what marketeers envision is something like this

 

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

I think what marketeers envision is something like this

Probably more like the Hyperreality video. I've linked that before. It's more relevant now, because it seems to be Zuckerberg's vision - an overlay on the real world with Facebook-type info. That's where Google Glass, the Microsoft Hololens, and the other see-through headgear people may be headed.

That's not the space SL is in, though. That's Augmented Reality, an overlay on the real world. Not another world such as SL.

7 hours ago, SynesthetiQ said:

If for no other reason than, if we get it wrong, it has huge implications for society in terms of mental health and psychology at a very fundamental level.

We're seeing more commentary on that in the New Yorker and similar intelligentsia-oriented publications.  The same criticism has historically been aimed at books, movies, TV, the Internet, and smartphones - that people would detach from the real world in favor of involvement with some imaginary world. We do see that. People walking around looking at smartphones for a significant portion of their waking hours. That line leads to the AR/Hyperreality future.

That problem is more on the passive entertainment side, though. "The great thing about television is that it's so passive" - Ted Turner (founder of TNT, CNN, etc.) Immersive virtual worlds and games require more engagement. That particular problem is less relevant to SL.

It comes up a lot in fiction, because, in fiction, you can have "full dive" technology, where you really do feel that you're in the world. Nobody knows how to do that for real yet.  Wearing a VR headset with tracking might eventually get close, but so far, wearing VR headgear is something people only do for short periods. Play Beat Saber for half an hour, fine. Spend 8 hours a day in VR at work, no.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sapphire Dakota said:

Avatars like this (with fairly good customization and clothing) ... in spaces with 150+ people and no lag ... in large editable and customizable landscapes ... that are 5-10x bigger than a sim (and far more easily landscaped than SLs tools) ... in an environment that looks this good. And sex without poseballs, too :)

The technology is there. This is the work of a only handful of devs, imagine what a team of 40 could accomplish?

1-avatar.thumb.jpg.aaa8c750ba678c117edccb9b8c65fb44.jpg

2-club.jpg

3-island.jpg

4-sim.jpg

5-landscape.jpg

Maybe Virtamate will become the metaverse? :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...