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Future of the metaverse, and all that


animats
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8 hours ago, Stifftailed said:

I actually used to play High Fidelity,  What happened to it?

A concurrent user count well below 100 happened to it.

High Fidelity belongs to the class of "game level loaders". Someone creates a level offline, uploads it, and then others can visit. Each level is totally isolated, and there's a long loading delay as the next level loads. It's not a single world like SL. Basically, it's a download system for simple indy games.

Sansar and Sinespace are other examples of that category. Interest in those is very low. Concurrent user counts are around 20. If your game was any good, you'd put it on Steam, so this is kind of a bottom-feeder business.

Fortnite Creative Mode, which is somewhat similar, is a modest success, but it's a tiny fraction of the Fortnite empire.

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8 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

If it were so good though how come you don't know what happened and are back here instead?

There wasn't an established userbase at the time, so not much content existed.  I was going to upload some of my own models eventually, but I'm no scripter. In fact I did login to High fidelity before I came back to SL.  I'm here, shortly, because there isn't anything else like second life, unfortunately.  I'll probably find myself bored like before and leave for another several years at least, eventually.

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42 minutes ago, animats said:

A concurrent user count well below 100 happened to it.

High Fidelity belongs to the class of "game level loaders". Someone creates a level offline, uploads it, and then others can visit. Each level is totally isolated, and there's a long loading delay as the next level loads. It's not a single world like SL. Basically, it's a download system for simple indy games.

Sansar and Sinespace are other examples of that category. Interest in those is very low. Concurrent user counts are around 20. If your game was any good, you'd put it on Steam, so this is kind of a bottom-feeder business.

Fortnite Creative Mode, which is somewhat similar, is a modest success, but it's a tiny fraction of the Fortnite empire.

 

I've never had that perspective before.    Secondlife in many ways is also a series of games, but dynamically changing and connected.  The benefit I see in something like High Fidelity  is you can still have your own avatar, your inventory, and then if not play the game in the game world you can just hang out, or watch videos, et cetera.  That aspect is still close to Secondlife. I also thing naming was a huge issue with High Fidelity.  I remember searching it to find the game and every time I do many other unrelated things would come up.

 

I was researching the potential of SL and why its so jank, why it fails at very simple things, and why most of these things don't get updated, then I came across several of your posts.  Gotta admit I'm somewhat of a fan.  One of the things discussed in this thread is a lack of competitors. 

The main thing secondlife is lacking as I've seen you discuss before are the most rudimentary systems that are present in even the worst/oldest of games.  Basic physics ,collision, movement, interactivity, controls.  If something else had that plus a user generated world, economy, currency, I would hop in a second.  There are so many really cool inventions in Secondlife, its a shame to see them held back by primitive software.

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we sometimes think that the direction of virtual worlds is that it will result in some great break thru that will advance the human condition

then EA comes out with Sims 4: Bust The Dust Kit. For $7.95 can clean your house as a chore, because your house fills up with dust unless you vacuum it with a actual virtual vacuum cleaner

and my first thought being a bit nerdy was: That be quite cool!

then my second thought was: nuuuu!

😺

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Mollymews said:

then EA comes out with Sims 4: Bust The Dust Kit. For $7.95 can clean your house as a chore, because your house fills up with dust unless you vacuum it with a actual virtual vacuum cleaner

and my first thought being a bit nerdy was: That be quite cool!

That's available in SL. Search for "Vacuum system" on marketplace.

There's a whole genre of anime about virtual worlds worse than real life. Currently running: "Kyuukyoku Shinka *****a Full Dive RPG ga Genjitsu yori mo Kusoge Dattara".

 

On 4/15/2021 at 12:09 PM, Stifftailed said:

One of the things discussed in this thread is a lack of competitors. 

There are more competitors each month. Just put "metaverse" into a search engine. With Epic Games (valuation US$17 billion) having just raised a billion dollars for their metaverse, and Roblox (US$46 billion IPO) getting into the area , we should see some competent competition. The "blockchain" crowd has yet to produce anything good.

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3 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

and they will burn an insane amount of money to build market share

They don't have to. They have 350 million registered Fortnite users. Maximum concurrent logins were 15.3 million on December 2, 2020. All they have to do is offer a new product to their customer base,

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20 hours ago, animats said:

They don't have to. They have 350 million registered Fortnite users.

That's 5% of the earth's population. Am I the only one who is a little bit sceptical about that number?

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8 hours ago, ChinRey said:

That's 5% of the earth's population. Am I the only one who is a little bit sceptical about that number?

Its registered accounts. So would be hard to determine whether all of those are actual players or simply 1 person with 3 accounts etc. That said, keep in mind that to play fortnight you need to use your epic games account which you buy numerous games on so most people will only have 1 account.

Also there has been talk that epic did loose an enormous amount of players when Apple banned them from hosting fortnite on their devices (Apple Store). It is estimated they lost about 116million players just from people not having fortnite on Apple hardware...

How Many People Play Fortnite In 2021? | Cultured Vultures

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  • 3 weeks later...

More Metaverse stuff:

There's a huge amount of money headed towards Second Life's comfortable niche. Billions of dollars.

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On 4/16/2021 at 3:43 AM, Mollymews said:

we sometimes think that the direction of virtual worlds is that it will result in some great break thru that will advance the human condition

then EA comes out with Sims 4: Bust The Dust Kit. For $7.95 can clean your house as a chore, because your house fills up with dust unless you vacuum it with a actual virtual vacuum cleaner

and my first thought being a bit nerdy was: That be quite cool!

then my second thought was: nuuuu!

😺

 

 

 

But... what about the dust bunnies? Won't someone think of the dust bunnies?

the-sims-4-kits-header.jpg

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Posted (edited)

I suspect the issue with many of these efforts will be where they draw the line at PG rated content (let alone anything remotely adult).

EA has the technical ability to make something like Sims 5 open and massively multiplayer, and would most likely make huge bucks doing so, but unless it's on a friends only spaces/small scale (think Animal Crossing meets the Sims), then they have to deal with all of the insane adult drama that comes with anyone being able to be on the platform/in the metaspace. And there is no way EA wants to moderate and deal with the headaches caused by many of the typical wing nuts inhabiting and griefing online spaces in their own, loving ways. ;)

And we know, SLex in all it's wild and wicked forms, is still a big draw here, and I suspect without freedom to play in whatever ways we (legally) want to online as adults (Roblox being an exception based on the demographics), EA won't want this. Yet. Never say never.

In SL? I just want a simple, foolproof, no HUD needed way to hug another avatar!!!

Edited by Katherine Heartsong
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2 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

I suspect the issue with many of these efforts will be where they draw the line at PG rated content (let alone anything remotely adult).

EA has the technical ability to make something like Sims 5 open and massively multiplayer, and would most likely make huge bucks doing so, but unless it's on a friends only spaces/small scale (think Animal Crossing meets the Sims), then they have to deal with all of the insane adult drama that comes with anyone being able to be on the platform/in the metaspace. And there is no way EA wants to moderate and deal with the headaches caused by many of the typical wing nuts inhabiting and griefing online spaces in their own, loving ways. ;)

And we know, SLex in all it's wild and wicked forms, is still a big draw here, and I suspect without freedom to play in whatever ways we (legally) want to online as adults (Roblox being an exception based on the demographics), EA won't want this. Yet. Never say never.

 

Um...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sims_Online

https://www.ea.com/games/the-sims/the-sims-freeplay

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6 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I meant to imply something on the scale of, and abilities we have within, SL. Anyone contributing, designing, selling, building, etc. I apologize if that was not understood. Sims 4 quality + SL's openness. Not just EA making "packs" of things ... open.

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18 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

I meant to imply something on the scale of, and abilities we have within, SL. Anyone contributing, designing, selling, building, etc. I apologize if that was not understood. Sims 4 quality + SL's openness. Not just EA making "packs" of things ... open.

Quote

In March 2007, an Electronic Arts employee Luc Barthelet, who served as General Manager of Maxis during the development of The Sims,[6] stopped by the official forums after years of ignoring the game. Luc had left The Sims Online production team after the game went live and hadn't contributed to the game environment until March 2007. After no development of The Sims Online, he assembled a team of seventeen people to push significant updates to the game under a project titled "TSO-E".

A major update to the game was user custom content. The TSO-E developers were interested in any user-submitted ideas on how they could maintain a stable economy to negate the gains players made illegitimately through exploits.[7] Custom objects were enabled within TSO in late 2007, allowing players to upload .bmp and .jpg images as well as .iff files. Furniture could be created and uploaded in the form of single-tiled chairs, sculptures, and decorations and multi-tiled tables.

Seeing as this was not enough, the TSO-E developers combined the game's cities together into two similar cities, re-branded the game as EA-Land, and wiped all player data. The Test Center 3 city was created freely accessible in hopes of expanding the game's userbase, and in-game ATMs were added, which could accept real money for Simoleons, in hopes of generating revenue. The system in which players could purchase properties and submit custom content was compared to Second Life.

EA/Maxis tested the open world environment with The Sims 3. Then, with S4, they reverted back to loading screens for the benefit of players who could not afford high end gaming pcs.

https://www.gamezone.com/originals/the-sims-4-s-loading-screens-are-a-win-in-every-respect-says-ea/

Personally, I  prefer open worlds, however, since I was used to loading screens, I'm not overly bothered by them. If there is an S5 (most likely in a few years) and it is open world, I'll probably get it if I can afford it. If not, I'm more likely to just stick with 2, 3 and 4. I still have all of the original Sims 1 discs but the graphics are just a bit too old for my eyes.

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Posted (edited)

I'm beginning to wonder if the future of the metaverse is cryptocurrencies, and perhaps even cross-currency uses in video games and/or worlds?  I'm not sure but I sure am wondering.  Many skeptics say nah, yet there are things happening and it looks rather "bullish" although the bullishness may be due to the stimulus monies around the globe.  I am not speculating on the current bullishness, many articles state the reason cryptocurrencies are on the rise is due indeed to the stimulus aid because of Covid.  

Edited by FairreLilette
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Some new news from Roblox. A friend pointed me at their Q1 earnings call.

Roblox, of course, is that little blocks world where they're struggling to get the median user age above 13. That 42 billion dollar little blocks world with over 33 million daily average users.

Now they're moving beyond blocky avatars. Roblox CEO:  "And so our vision is everything from cartoon characters to classic Roblox blocky avatars, to ultimately AAA avatars that we see around a wide range of immersive 3D experience. What we're building internally is technologies that allow combinatorial excellence, and it includes a system where any piece of clothing works on any avatar. And also where ultimately, motion integrates with this system as well, including both captured motion as well as you can see with our acquisition of Loom.ai, a vision for ultimately including your own motion to drive the face of your avatar."

"Ultimately, our whole avatar system, including clothing, body, face, hair, animation, is 100% [user generated content] supported by our creator community. You're going to see over the next year, more and more developments along this."

Both of those features are possible for SL. Not easy, but possible. I've discussed how in other posts.

Roblox is now moving into higher age groups. SL territory. Only 14% of Roblox users are over 25. That's 4.5 million daily average users in SL's demographic space. SL has only about half a million, if that.

LL, you have to keep up. There's a real competitor coming.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Roblox might be a kids game, but it has a substantial userbase, aspirations and will travel.

Half the reason we're all still here after all these years is because we are invested in the platform AND the people we've met. Don't presume Roblox's users are any less invested and so long as the platform continues to grow with them, they should hang around.

The metaverse is the next big investor money pit (now VR and AR have started to wane) and we're about to loose what little advantage we have.

If platform change is off the table (and so long as LL remain committed to every last vintage prim, it is), ubiquity might be the only option. Throw the doors open, open source the servers, let everyone and their dog connect to the grid and aim to be the apache of virtual worlds. We might not be the best, but we would be everywhere.

It shouldn't just be @animats beating this drum, SL urgently needs to raise it's game, maintenance mode to keep us oldbies happy is not going to be sufficient. Nor is better marketing or a new user experience.

We need solid platform investment and growth, before we get bought by a solid platform as part of their growth.

Edited by Coffee Pancake
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5 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It shouldn't just be @animats beating this drum, SL urgently needs to raise it's game, maintenance mode to keep us oldbies happy is not going to be sufficient. Nor is better marketing or a new user experience.

We need solid platform investment and growth, before we get bought by a solid platform as part of their growth.

Yes. My perspective is that I've been in Silicon Valley for years, have been around various startups, some successful, some bankrupt, and I've seen what happens when a company gets Left Behind.

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"Revenue from purchases is split between the developer and the Roblox Corporation 30-70, in favor of Roblox Corp."

Why exactly would any (SL) content creator want to do business in Roblox? That split makes even Apple/Google/Steam look generous.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Candide LeMay said:

Why exactly would any (SL) content creator want to do business in Roblox? That split makes even Apple/Google/Steam look generous.

You can rearrange price according to cut. This is what they are doing probably.

A software in google play 10 USD on apple store 10 USD + Apple cut. If it is selling creator / developer does not care about the cut same income for developer.

This is what I observed while making content in google play.

Edited by RunawayBunny
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54 minutes ago, Candide LeMay said:

"Revenue from purchases is split between the developer and the Roblox Corporation 30-70, in favor of Roblox Corp."

Why exactly would any (SL) content creator want to do business in Roblox? That split makes even Apple/Google/Steam look generous.

70% is a lot by any standars but as a commercial(ish) content creator I wouldn't compare commission rates directly that way. If the market is big enough I would accept (but not neccessarily be happy about) quite high commission rates. If the service I get is excellent, I'd be more than happy to accept they charged a large commission.

Neither is the case in SL. It's a fairly small market and LL's support is abysmally poor so the 10% they charge for MP sales is way too high. Other online platforms I sell through typically charge 30-40% and I'm happy with that because they're giving me more in return.

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