Looking after new users.

[Evah Baxton]

4 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

If I go to the trouble of shopping for something and then pay for it with a gift card, you're damn right I expect to be able to keep it even if I don't continue with a subscription.

Warnings and grace periods wouldn't be needed because retention wouldn't just be in the toilet, it would be flushed.

I wouldn't call it a Gift then. 

People have a good idea of what a trial means. They don't have to do it. They could just skip it and go on without it. If they signed up for it though, they are taking a risk that they would be made well aware of at many points in time.

[Beth Macbain]

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

I'm sorry, where did you get the idea that anyone meant that every premium account needed a Linden Home. Please read what people say before posting such rubbish.

Supply and demand for homes was easily obtainable to Linden Lab from the start as they had the old Linden Home region already built to work this out. Given that many of the homes in this older region were empty, they could have easily said ok we have x homes that are taken so we will provide homes for those first in the initial release +10% extra and then create more supply after if it was needed. Not rocket science. They could have even just looked at how many homes they had on the old home regions and replicated that number exactly and this would have accommodated for everyone that has one and most people that wanted one.

You actually stating it took them 1 year to build enough that it "is not difficult to get a home...now" proves that you are exaggerating when you imply they would need 6 years. That is to say, they have met the supply and demand target within a year - if LL actually took the time to calculate a supply and demand figure.

IMHO the building of Bellisseria has been very slow (considering it is repeated assets) and could have met supply and demand targets sooner based on the fact that I can build RL subdivisions and individual unique homes quicker, but not going to get into an argument about that.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Because it is their responsibility for them to ensure that the new user gets what is advertised in their marketing campaigns, of which they don't. The fact that they are now listening to marketing suggestions of users in another thread on these forums, goes to show they are now trying to fix their mess, but perhaps its a little of "too little to late".

All of which comes back to decisions LL have made that made it as such as well as the lack of improvement in viewer features and UI.

No, the average person has a decent modern computer. It is only in the SL universe that apparently they expect a graphical demanding platform (for use of a better word GAME ENGINE) to not need the demand of a good PC. The tech forums with posts of people asking for a computer that SOLEY is built to run SL with bare minimum cost shows this as most people build a computer or buy a computer for multiple possibilities, not just to meet the lowest denominator. That is an SL thing and an SL thing only. A simple update in the minimum specs would resolve all this but LL refuse to do this as well and even still listing hardware that hasn't seen an update in 10 years.

I'm not sure how long you have been around SL though I could have a guess based on your response, but once again poor decisions on LL behalf led to that which has been talked to death on these forums so I wont mention them here.

For perspective, when I was a new user back in 2003 I bought premium straight away as did most people as you got land, could build on that land without 3rd party software, have fun on that land and most of all was provided money every week that you could actually buy multiple things with that $300 lindens (2006 figure). It had nothing to do with there was to much choice as, especially in the hype years, the same choices existed back then (apart from the messed up mesh body system which is another fault on LL behalf). It had everything to do with you could do a lot for what you got with premium and once again in the hype years, I would argue quite convincedly, it was far more fun and community driven than now.

Like all economies, SL has suffered inflation and an increase in cost of living. Where back then I could create an entire avatar for $300-$600 Lindens ($1000 at most), which would take 1-2 weeks worth of stipend in around 2006, now it costs around $15,000-$20,000 Lindens. You might ask what is my point? My point is that back when premium and its stipend was decided (finally set in stone to the amount provided today i.e. 2006) it was actually worth it. Now to get that same body using the stipend provided would take me 66 weeks. Irrespective of the house which despite what you say is perfect for new users (it is a primary feature asked for in every MMO even demanded if it isn't in the game already).

Also take into consideration that many of the freebie items from large freebie warehouse areas where at least up to par in most cases to what was on offer in stores. This allowed for any new user to go to these places and get a comparable look (perhaps slightly less) to what everyone else had. These places were also advertised on newbie island not only from LL free landmarks provided to new users but also by other residents.

It is this statement that shows your age in SL. LL actively contributed to the community in the very "look after new users" way you suggest we take. Back when they were actually engaged with the community (Rod the old CEO put a stop to most of this engagement) they had mentors, LL even made a group for them. They were volunteer users who dedicated THEIR time to helping new users and, new users knew who to ask for help due to LL providing those mentors a specific group, title and support. These mentors would also be stationed on noob islands making it easy for new users to get friendly help straight away whilst learning the ins and outs of the viewer and SL.

It was LL who specifically and abruptly stopped the mentor program and despite efforts from users to take it up again, without the LL support it only failed due to their been no official LL support or representation for it. Consequently new users became left in the dark and left to wander the SL plains by themselves (as no mentors were on noob islands anymore) actively trying to work things out for themselves in vein. Due to most users that were not interested in helping as they were engaged in other activities and in most cases not educated enough in SL to tell the right way to do things the new user began to be left by the wayside and from there felt like everyone was rude in SL.

So please, enlighten us who is responsible for the mess SL is in as far as the new user experience and possible help avenues go and why it is the residents responsibility to fix it despite, evidence and experience showing, that only LL and its support of specific residents and groups can achieve such things?

It is so fun to get you riled up!

[Drayke Newall]

1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

It is so fun to get you riled up!

Not riled up at all. Just I've never seen a person like you that misreads peoples posts 100% of the time.

[Beth Macbain]

2 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Not riled up at all. Just I've never seen a person like you that misreads peoples posts 100% of the time.

HYPERBOLE!

It’s only like 93% of the time.

[Selene Gregoire]

23 minutes ago, Evah Baxton said:

I wouldn't call it a Gift then. 

People have a good idea of what a trial means. They don't have to do it. They could just skip it and go on without it. If they signed up for it though, they are taking a risk that they would be made well aware of at many points in time.

A trial period allows customers to view/use protected content for free. That is its whole purpose, allowing prospective customers to "test drive" the product before paying for a sub. If the things you buy in SL, regardless of payment method, are just going to be taken away again after the trial period is over, there is no point in even offering a free trial. That is what is being discussed here. Free trials. 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Selene Gregoire

[Evah Baxton]

5 hours ago, MichaMoz said:

First let me ask why must LL do anything at all?

They don't.

They should (and I think they do) feel responsible for creating the vehicles that allow citizens to keep on SL-ing. Whatever those might be.

Of course if the numbers aren't yet properly crunched, this whole thread is a non-issue and I am so willing to concede to that. That would be great news.

Quote

If YOU really want to "look after new users" then YOU have to be willing to sacrifice YOUR time and not LL or someone else's money. 

Absolutely.

[Evah Baxton]

2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

A trial period allows customers to view/use protected content for free. That is its whole purpose, allowing prospective customers to "test drive" the product before paying for a sub. If the things you buy in SL, regardless of payment method, are just going to be taken away again after the trial period is over, there is no point in even offering a free trial. That is what is being discussed here. Free trials. 

I don't really think that the classic free trial would work in SL.

Take Eve Online for instance. Last I knew about it, you'd get a "free 30 day trial". You would put hours into research, and possibly hours of travelling. You would build up your ship and start a modest inventory. You'd join a group and start making a few friends. Right as things would start making sense and you were getting the hang of it, it would be time to start your subscription. Otherwise ... you don't login anymore.

SL is even more forgiving in that you still get to login and go at it yourself if you want.

It IS possible to do it without fraud. Whether it's actually worth it or not? I don't know.

[Selene Gregoire]

33 minutes ago, Evah Baxton said:

I don't really think that the classic free trial would work in SL.

Take Eve Online for instance. Last I knew about it, you'd get a "free 30 day trial". You would put hours into research, and possibly hours of travelling. You would build up your ship and start a modest inventory. You'd join a group and start making a few friends. Right as things would start making sense and you were getting the hang of it, it would be time to start your subscription. Otherwise ... you don't login anymore.

SL is even more forgiving in that you still get to login and go at it yourself if you want.

It IS possible to do it without fraud. Whether it's actually worth it or not? I don't know.

You're forgetting about basic accounts. Any one not paying for a sub at the end of the trial period simply reverts to basic without losing any inventory. 

Why would you want to put such a heavy burden on LL employees that are already overloaded with resident demands? Or did you miss the announcement about the layoffs just before the "Sansar is for sale" announcement?

There is no reason to take inventory away from customers. Do that and you will ensure they don't stick around.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Selene Gregoire

[Evah Baxton]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

You're forgetting about basic accounts. Any one not paying for a sub at the end of the trial period simply reverts to basic without losing any inventory. 

Why would you want to put such a heavy burden on LL employees that are already overloaded with resident demands? Or did you miss the announcement about the layoffs just before the "Sansar is for sale" announcement?

There is no reason to take inventory away from customers. Do that and you will ensure they don't stick around.

EDIT: You are correct that I wasn't thinking about how you can be premium and downgrade to basic without losing anything. It didn't even cross my mind because it didn't need to. This would be a separate system set up specifically to encourage new sign ups and retention if that need actually exists.

The inventory purchased in this case would have been purchased with new arrival credits. A balance that can be used to purchase no-transfer items only. Any UUID purchased under this account would be subject to removal. Those items would become officially yours after some time (proving your resident status). By that time you probably wouldn't even care about those items.

I sincerely hope that LL is run by people that understand being overloaded with customer demands. I don't expect customers to come to my rescue. I want constant complaints and demands and I enjoy the challenge + reward of meeting them.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Evah Baxton

[Selene Gregoire]

9 hours ago, Evah Baxton said:

EDIT: You are correct that I wasn't thinking about how you can be premium and downgrade to basic without losing anything. It didn't even cross my mind because it didn't need to. This would be a separate system set up specifically to encourage new sign ups and retention if that need actually exists.

The inventory purchased in this case would have been purchased with new arrival credits. A balance that can be used to purchase no-transfer items only. Any UUID purchased under this account would be subject to removal. Those items would become officially yours after some time (proving your resident status). By that time you probably wouldn't even care about those items.

I sincerely hope that LL is run by people that understand being overloaded with customer demands. I don't expect customers to come to my rescue. I want constant complaints and demands and I enjoy the challenge + reward of meeting them.

Nope. Still not buying premium even on a trial basis.

When you've had 45 plus years of constant complaints and demands, it's no longer a rewarding challenge. Welcome to the Rat Race. It's all yours.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Selene Gregoire

[Lancewae Barrowstone]

20 hours ago, MichaMoz said:

Some people are lucky to find a someone who gives them something more valuable than premium and that's time and/or friendship. Someone who takes them under their wing and walks them through the most mundane of tasks and while a lot of times it's a thankless job, occasionally you get back ten fold what you put in. If YOU really want to "look after new users" then YOU have to be willing to sacrifice YOUR time and not LL or someone else's money. 

No, but this comment is so right-on in more than one way.  Never mind LL's failing at this or that.  This comment brings us back on point here.  We may be sensing that LL is turning her eyes back upon the forgotten children, and eager to get things spiffed up for a new school year, and foster the newborns better into the fold and help get the lost ones onto some pathways a little better than before, when all those early 3rd party reviews and articles about the birth of Second Life in the beginning which brought a bright new buzz and so scores of us showws up to see,  ... well that is no longer there.

No, this second start, which makes perfect sense in the post-Sansar moment if it is true, will have to create it's own replacement for that early gifted buzz by journalism, by taking fresh new steps now at infusing a brighter energy internally,  such as at the newbie starting points of the world. The new work must be to catch all the little minnows showing up on their own, and to try to keep them in the net.  There is much doable stuff that can be done here.  You can't catch all the fishes but you can catch more.   

And secondly, many of us individually like to help new arrivals because:

(1) they are a resource.  There are real people behind the avatar and if they will answer our greeting then

(2) we get to help them discover what is not readily seen, the many things others helped us to see (those of us who were lucky).  Now we get a chance to pay if forward and a "thank you" is never needed.  Plus,

(3) this new "resource" might make a good friend, a close friend, loyal and even loving, who also

(4) may go on to join you in your SL doings or move on to their own interests and yet keep in touch with you as a friend

(5) -- etc -- and beyond etcetras!

 

 

[Relayer85]

Why don't they just reestablish the old system with the regional spawn points?
Many of my older friends in SL tell me that spawn points groups, Like the German Newbie Center,  the New Citizens Incorporated and others still exist. In former times, new arrivals were sent to those locations, and the community itself took care of them.

Surely, not a uniform experience. But you could send them there after the initial education in how to move and so on.

The groups are there, the people are there , the locations are still mostly there.

How hard can it be to put up a TP gate at spawn with a geolocation connected teleporter?

Likewise there are plenty of lovely places, Towns on Sansara, entire Gaming areas. They are still advertised in old parts of the system, still there ,still work, but heck when you ever see somebody there. Put up a standardized TP gate and a comprehensive area with further TP interconnects to get newbies to explore those places.

Just a month ago I was playing Great Giana Sisters / Super Mario, being the character myself in the way of making my way through the parcour.

It was hilarious!

 

Also, back with Viewer 1.23 I got shown SL in Anaglyph 3D . Whilst color-distorted, that, too, was absolute awesomeness.

The game uses OpenGL, so it should be easy to implement any other 3D system atop the games own engine.

Edited June 27, 2020 by Relayer85
Forgot additional detail

[Lindal Kidd]

Relayer, that still happens.

The Firestorm group has its own Learning Island, and its own version of Social Island.

For groups that don't do that, at the end of the standard Social Island, there's a set of teleport gates.  One of them goes to a selection of newbie-friendly destinations, including places like New Resident Island and NCI.