Poll - Has anybody using a viewer besides Phoenix seen a Ruthed Avatar?

[Daki Aries]

In my experience, the only people to ever see me Ruthed are Phoenix users. When they change to another viewer, I appear the right way. What's wierd is the Phoenix users tell Me TO FIX myself. And yea I can re install viewer over and over, clean out cashe etc all as a way to FIX how phoenix users see me... but now I'm like why? I'm not broke they are. In tests, if they put on viewer 2, like I use, I appear fine. I have never found another viewer 2 user who sees me with some funky female shape.

Why do I appear normal to myself on Viewer 2, normal to everybody else except Phoenix users? Doesn't logic state the problem is with Phoenix? Otherwise, why does them changing from Phoenix to another viewer fix how THEY see me?

 

[Persephone Emerald]

My roommate says she sees herself as being Ruthed on Viewer 2 even when other people see her as looking fine.  I pretty much only use Phoenix & I don't think I I've ever seen myself as completely Ruthed.  I've had orange skin, but my body shape looked ok.

[Daki Aries]

Oh I wish I saw myself as Ruthed... like hours go by and I see myself fine, but then somebody will send me a screen shot of myself as half female/half male... Ok well if people are seeing Ruthed people on Viewer 2 my theory goes out the window. So far in my experince only Phoenix people have seen me as Ruthed. I've been told I was Ruthed about 10 times now and every time I ask and they say they are on Phoenix.

These viewers change all the time with updates and I'm curious if the differences between the viewers is the real problem and not asset server.

My main point is..... I'm standing there on viewer 2. Somebody says to me, "Hey you are Ruthed" I ask... what viewer are you using? They always say,,, Phoenix. I get some of them to change viewers. They log back in and see me as fine.  How can the problem be caused by my inventory not loading when them changing out of Phoenix fixes it? 

But yea most people in game right now won't accept anything is wrong with Phoenix. In fact, most get angry if you suggest it.

[Ansariel Hiller]

The problem is caused by avatar physics and it's not only Phoenix affected but all version 1.x based viewers that are unfixed - even the official LL viewer 1.23.5. It appears that only Phoenix is affected because the majority of people use that viewer (> 40%).

BTW: A fixed version of Phoenix is planned to be available today. Beside the fix it will also contain the avatar physics feature of Viewer 2.

[Innula Zenovka]

As I understand it, you see Ruth rather than a particle cloud if you have RenderUnloadedAvatar set to true in debug settings.

I've often seen changing this setting, which, as I recall, is easily accessible in the Phoenix preferences panel, offered as a suggestion in the Phoenix support group in world when people complain the world is taking too long to load. 

So that might give us an indication where the problem is.    

[Innula Zenovka]

---

Ansariel Hiller wrote:

The problem is caused by avatar physics and it's not only Phoenix affected but all version 1.x based viewers that are unfixed - even the official LL viewer 1.23.5. It appears that only Phoenix is affected because the majority of people use that viewer (> 40%).

BTW: A fixed version of Phoenix is planned to be available today. Beside the fix it will also contain the avatar physics feature of Viewer 2.

---

I know there's an issue with avatar physics and older viewers generally,  but are you saying that Phoenix users see people as Ruth if they've not loaded properly because of avatar physics and as a particle cloud if there's another reason for their not having properly loaded?    

 

 

[Ansariel Hiller]

The avatar is not unloaded, only processing the loaded avatar parameters stopped because of unknown parameters that are not in the local avatar_lad.xml definition file.

[Ansariel Hiller]

---

Innula Zenovka wrote:

---

Ansariel Hiller wrote:

The problem is caused by avatar physics and it's not only Phoenix affected but all version 1.x based viewers that are unfixed - even the official LL viewer 1.23.5. It appears that only Phoenix is affected because the majority of people use that viewer (> 40%).

BTW: A fixed version of Phoenix is planned to be available today. Beside the fix it will also contain the avatar physics feature of Viewer 2.

---

I know there's an issue with avatar physics and older viewers generally,  but are you saying that Phoenix users see people as Ruth if they've not loaded properly because of avatar physics and as a particle cloud if there's another reason for their not having properly loaded?    

 

 

---

If RenderUnloadedAvatars is disabled, you will see avatars having general problems loading avatar data as cloud, avatars with physics as ruth. As for physics all avatar data is correctly downloaded to your viewer, but processing the shape data just stops because the physics parameters are unknown. The most easy fix is to just skip unknown parameters, but LL originally errored out, so even known parameters that might follow physics parameter are omitted. That results in ending up as Ruth.

If you have RenderUnloadedAvatars set to enabled, you can't say directly what the problem is. But another weird side effect of avatar physics is that avatars might first load with a female looking shape and suddenly transform into the correct shape.

[Innula Zenovka]

---

Ansariel Hiller wrote:

---

Innula Zenovka wrote:

---

Ansariel Hiller wrote:

The problem is caused by avatar physics and it's not only Phoenix affected but all version 1.x based viewers that are unfixed - even the official LL viewer 1.23.5. It appears that only Phoenix is affected because the majority of people use that viewer (> 40%).

BTW: A fixed version of Phoenix is planned to be available today. Beside the fix it will also contain the avatar physics feature of Viewer 2.

---

I know there's an issue with avatar physics and older viewers generally,  but are you saying that Phoenix users see people as Ruth if they've not loaded properly because of avatar physics and as a particle cloud if there's another reason for their not having properly loaded?    

 

 

---

If RenderUnloadedAvatars is disabled, you will see avatars having general problems loading avatar data as cloud, avatars with physics as ruth. As for physics all avatar data is correctly downloaded to your viewer, but processing the shape data just stops because the physics parameters are unknown. The most easy fix is to just skip unknown parameters, but LL originally errored out, so even known parameters that might follow physics parameter are omitted. That results in ending up as Ruth.

If you have RenderUnloadedAvatars set to enabled, you can't say directly what the problem is. But another weird side effect of avatar physics is that avatars might first load with a female looking shape and suddenly transform into the correct shape.

---

So, am I correct in thinking that someone using today's update of Phoenix who has RenderUnloadedAvatars set to TRUE will continue to see avatars whose data hasn't properly loaded as Ruth, in circumstances when someone using the same viewer who's got it set to FALSE will see them as a particle cloud?

[Ansariel Hiller]

---

Innula Zenovka wrote:

So, am I correct in thinking that someone using today's update of Phoenix who has RenderUnloadedAvatars set to TRUE will continue to see avatars whose data hasn't properly loaded as Ruth, in circumstances when someone using the same viewer who's got it set to FALSE will see them as a particle cloud?

---

Correct. Once you use the updated viewer it should be exactly the way it was before LL introduced avatar physics.

[Deej Kasshiki]

I'm using Snowglobe 1.42 and this would explain why I'm seeing a surge of Ruths lately.

[leliel Mirihi]

---

Deej Kasshiki wrote:

I'm using Snowglobe 1.42 and this would explain why I'm seeing a surge of Ruths lately.

---

LL is not going to fix Snowglobe so you might want to switch to another viewer.

[Ansariel Hiller]

Phoenix 1102 is now officially released!

[Jenni Darkwatch]

Simple solution: Ignore Phoenix users (or any other v1.x users) unless you give a damn about how others see you.

I obviously don't.

[Ansariel Hiller]

Great idea! With Viewer 2 being used by only 20% of the residents! Did you know it's you who will look like a clown and not the others? But if you don't care... :smileyvery-happy:

[leliel Mirihi]

---

Ansariel Hiller wrote:

Great idea! With Viewer 2 being used by only 20% of the residents! Did you know it's you who will look like a clown and not the others? But if you don't care... :smileyvery-happy:

---

That argument didn't stop Emerald users from using the custom attachment points back in 2009 (when Emerald had less then 20% of the market). So what makes you think it will work now?

Some of us started in SL back when seeing people ruthed, covered in missing image skins, with a big head, invisible, or a myriad of other problems were the norm. I got used to the idea that not everyone will see me perfectly years ago.

Who here remembers having to open the region & estate floater just to see water?

[Ansariel Hiller]

---

leliel Mirihi wrote:

That argument didn't stop Emerald users from using the custom attachment points back in 2009 (when Emerald had less then 20% of the market). So what makes you think it will work now?

 

Some of us started in SL back when seeing people ruthed, covered in missing image skins, with a big head, invisible, or a myriad of other problems were the norm. I got used to the idea that not everyone will see me perfectly years ago.

Who here remembers having to open the region & estate floater just to see water?

---

Did Emerald's secondary attachment spots break avatar appearance when not using them? No! Do avatar physics break avatar appearance when not using them? Yes! See a difference?

Who here remembers having to open the parcel panel just to see the exact avatar position? Oh wait! That was V2 in it's first incarnations! :smileyvery-happy:

[leliel Mirihi]

---

Ansariel Hiller wrote:

Did Emerald's secondary attachment spots break avatar appearance when not using them? No! Do avatar physics break avatar appearance when not using them? Yes! See a difference?

---

Valid argument.

---

Who here remembers having to open the parcel panel just to see the exact avatar position? Oh wait! That was V2 in it's first incarnations! :smileyvery-happy:

---

 

Pointless v2 trolling. I understand now where you're coming from.

[Ansariel Hiller]

---

leliel Mirihi wrote:

Pointless v2 trolling. I understand now where you're coming from.

---

You mean you don't troll about V1? But to meet your expectations I'm gonna refrain from creating V2 bugfixes and features for Firestorm from now on...

[leliel Mirihi]

---

Ansariel Hiller wrote:

---

leliel Mirihi wrote:

Pointless v2 trolling. I understand now where you're coming from.

---

You mean you don't troll about V1? But to meet your expectations I'm gonna refrain from creating V2 bugfixes and features for Firestorm from now on...

---

No. Because unlike a lot of other people in SL I don't have a major problem with the UI in either viewer. Some of my statements may come off as, or in fact be trolling, but that is unintentional and they're often meant as sarcasm. If you don't want to help out the Firestorm team that's your business.

By the way that bug where you had to open the region and estate floater to see water was in the 1.13.2.x viewer released in December of 2006. If you think that's relevant to the v1 vs. v2 flame war then you take this way to seriously.

[Ansariel Hiller]

---

leliel Mirihi wrote:

No. Because unlike a lot of other people in SL I don't have a major problem with the UI in either viewer. Some of my statements may come off as, or in fact be trolling, but that is unintentional and they're often meant as sarcasm. If you don't want to help out the Firestorm team that's your business.

 

By the way that bug where you had to open the region and estate floater to see water was in the 1.13.2.x viewer released in December of 2006. If you think that's relevant to the v1 vs. v2 flame war then you take this way to seriously.

---

Of course I will continue doing stuff for Firestorm, simply because I personally think stock Viewer 2 is a piece of unusable garbage, far away from every UI design principle! That was an (intentional) ironic statement about stopping doing stuff for it!

But remember who came up with a statement about old viewer 1 that doesn't serve any purpose in this discussion? What has a viewer bug about not visible water to do in this context? Or was it's only purpose to show everyone that you are waaaaaaaaaaay long in SL? In either case, if you bring some trolling statement about something, you must expect to get a corresponding answer. :smileytongue:

Question now is: Shall we continue discussing straight ahead into offtopic?

[leliel Mirihi]

---

Ansariel Hiller wrote:

But remember who came up with a statement about old viewer 1 that doesn't serve any purpose in this discussion? What has a viewer bug about not visible water to do in this context? Or was it's only purpose to show everyone that you are waaaaaaaaaaay long in SL? In either case, if you bring some trolling statement about something, you must expect to get a corresponding answer. :smileytongue:

---

 I was just walking down memory lane after bringing up all those other bugs that were relevant to the discussion (i.e. other people not seeing you correctly) since they all happened around the same time.

---

Question now is: Shall we continue discussing straight ahead into offtopic?

---

We're already discusing this topic in another thread in offtopic. Does that count?

[Jenni Darkwatch]

Nope, I don't care. Once mesh hits (if ever) the same outcry will come. Frankly? Your problem. Not mine.

[Ariadne Robbiani]

yes -- i use the original viewer and often see Ruthed avs.  I now always ask them if they are usig viewer 2 and so far all have said "yes"