Does Belleza actually WANT creators to make clothes for them?

[Sylvia Wasp]

I know the title is a bit cheeky, but seriously ... 

I have a small store where I make clothing for (female) avatars and I recently decided to expand the body types I support. I *had* been only supporting Tonic (the best mesh body) and Maitreya (the most popular mesh body), but I decided to expand my repertoire to include SLink, and because it's still very popular (apparently) .... Belleza Freya.  

I then went about joining all the groups and trying to find out which ones I could use to announce products in. I found out how to do it with SLink right away (they have rules for it, like everything, lol) but  it seems that Belleza is completely lacking. 

There are lots of Belleza groups, but only three with large followings that seem like the places to announce new product.  I tried asking in the groups, I tried finding out the owners of the groups and IM'ing them, and eventually I even dropped notecards explaining myself to the owners of these groups.  Two of them even say in the group description that you can "apply" for permission to post notices in the group if you are a creator and I've done that.  

What I've got back ... (and this is weeks ago!), is sweet F-all.  Nothing. Nada. No contact.  

I spent many days updating everything I make to support Belleza Freya and now I'm thinking I probably shouldn't have bothered.   

Sylvia.  

[So Whimsy]

Are these groups owned by the Belleza creator? If no, then....why take it out on the brand? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

[Tazzie Tuque]

ok so let me get this straight,  you are already making clothes for Belleza Freya so waiting for the kit is not the problem right?   It is just that you want to be able to advertise in the group.  Actually advertising new items in a group for folks also makes items is not going to reach the buyers that you want to get the information because your buyers will not likely be in the group for creators..  As for the Belleza patrons group,  I am not sure that would do much good for you either.. I trust you have your own group for patrons to follow you so that would of course be a place to advertise all new stuff.. and there are a few other groups in SL that would help to reach potential buyers.  SL Designer's Union for one and i know there are a few others.  And of course if you get your stuff out there in events and fairs that also helps as you can have the event bloggers cover your work, and you can usually post in the event groups as well.  

As for not bothering to make Belleza Freya .. indeed you should there is a huge market out there still for that model.. so by all means do make it.

 

[Janet Voxel]

It’s the second most worn body.

Honestly, I don’t even pay attention to group notices. I treat them like spam, close the box immediately when they pop up. I’ve been doing that for years.
 

The best way to advertise now is through social media. Apparently, they are cracking down on Flickr, but that’s usually where I find out who has things I might be interested in. You can post ads, but not links.

Edited February 24, 2020 by janetosilio

[Tazzie Tuque]

13 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

Apparently, they are cracking down on Flickr,

I am a Flickr user I post all my stuff there;  I don't think they are cracking down so much as they are limiting the free members amount they can post etc.  I am a paid member, and I get all the news and information about Flickr and I have seen nothing about cracking down.

[Hunny Bunny]

Nope, I don't think they do.

[Janet Voxel]

21 minutes ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

I am a Flickr user I post all my stuff there;  I don't think they are cracking down so much as they are limiting the free members amount they can post etc.  I am a paid member, and I get all the news and information about Flickr and I have seen nothing about cracking down.

They are cracking down on bloggers posting links to blogs and creators that post links to inworld stores. As long as you don’t do those things you’re fine.

[Tazzie Tuque]

1 hour ago, janetosilio said:

They are cracking down on bloggers posting links to blogs and creators that post links to inworld stores. As long as you don’t do those things you’re fine.

Odd I do that all the time, post links to event and to my main store and I haven't heard anything about that..  Can you tell me how you know that?  

[Sylvia Wasp]

3 hours ago, Syn Anatine said:

Are these groups owned by the Belleza creator? If no, then....why take it out on the brand? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

I'm not "taking it out" on anyone.  You're just trying to make me sound angry or unreasonable.  

I'm just saying that every body type has groups precisely for this sort of thing, that Belleza seems to have one too, but ... that there seems to be basically "no one home" when I ask about advertising etc. 

[Sylvia Wasp]

3 hours ago, janetosilio said:

It’s the second most worn body.

Honestly, I don’t even pay attention to group notices. I treat them like spam, close the box immediately when they pop up. I’ve been doing that for years.
 

The best way to advertise now is through social media. Apparently, they are cracking down on Flickr, but that’s usually where I find out who has things I might be interested in. You can post ads, but not links.

Well, I would disagree on "second most worn body" it depends on how the pollster makes the poll.  🙂

The numbers also show that Belleza Freya is pretty much the only one of the three Belleza's that's still popular with designers (because sales).  

Anyway, Belleza users seem to be different from Tonic/Maitreya/SLink users and probably always will be.  

I WANT to make clothing for Belleza Freya, and I AM making clothing for Belleza Freya, I'm just saying that they are making it much harder than it should be to make Belleza users aware of that fact.  

They just don't seem to have even basic infrastructure for promoting their brand. 

Sylvia

[Monica Querrien]

48 minutes ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

Odd I do that all the time, post links to event and to my main store and I haven't heard anything about that..  Can you tell me how you know that?  

Someone had their account deleted because they were a free account and posting links (forgot if it was a blogger link or inworld/marketplace links). A few people contacted Flickr and they said on free accounts, linking to places with commercial activity in the photo stream posts was prohibited. It was all over facebook, and I did a blog post on it.

[Theresa Tennyson]

10 minutes ago, Sylvia Wasp said:

They just don't seem to have even basic infrastructure for promoting their brand.

Isn't it your brand you want them to promote?

[Tazzie Tuque]

49 minutes ago, Monica Querrien said:

Someone had their account deleted because they were a free account and posting links (forgot if it was a blogger link or inworld/marketplace links). A few people contacted Flickr and they said on free accounts, linking to places with commercial activity in the photo stream posts was prohibited. It was all over facebook, and I did a blog post on it.

oh ok well I am a paying Flickr user so maybe that is why no one has bothered me,,, yet anyhow.  I do not follow FB as TAZZ  as Facebook took my page down ages ago saying I was not a real person.. so I just don't follow anything to do with SL in FB  as I don't want my RL page involved at all.  Thank you for the clarification.

[Janet Voxel]

7 hours ago, Sylvia Wasp said:

 

The numbers also show that Belleza Freya is pretty much the only one of the three Belleza's that's still popular with designers (because sales).  

Anyway, Belleza users seem to be different from Tonic/Maitreya/SLink users and probably always will be.  

I WANT to make clothing for Belleza Freya, and I AM making clothing for Belleza Freya, I'm just saying that they are making it much harder than it should be to make Belleza users aware of that fact.  

They just don't seem to have even basic infrastructure for promoting their brand. 

Sylvia

So because there's no Belleza group that allows you to spam ads....they must not want you to create for them? Because....they're....different....

Got it....

You missed the point of there being other avenues to advertise besides sending group notices though.

 

[Mollymews]

Sylvia, to get your products in front of the most number of people then Marketplace

with inworld groups then the biggest inworld store traffic drivers are resident-owned/run public gift and special price/discount offers groups like 'Fabulously Free in SL' and 'SL frees & offers" and '50L Friday Sale'. There are others as well

basically post special price offers in these groups to get your brand/store in front of lots of people inworld

[Paul Hexem]

On 2/24/2020 at 6:17 PM, Sylvia Wasp said:

I'm not "taking it out" on anyone.  You're just trying to make me sound angry or unreasonable.  

I'm just saying that every body type has groups precisely for this sort of thing, that Belleza seems to have one too, but ... that there seems to be basically "no one home" when I ask about advertising etc. 

Because you are being unreasonable.

On 2/24/2020 at 6:41 PM, Theresa Tennyson said:

Isn't it your brand you want them to promote?

Nailed it.

[Tazzie Tuque]

5 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

Isn't it your brand you want them to promote?

 

6 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

Nailed it.

And that was the point I was politely trying to make before in this thread.  Now after seeing more comments..  I would like to add...  No group has to allow you to advertise.. period!  And using groups like that to advertise your brand is just plain lazy.. check out my previous comment early on.. to see what some other options might be..  it seems that was ignored.

[Maitimo]

On 2/24/2020 at 8:53 PM, janetosilio said:

They are cracking down on bloggers posting links to blogs and creators that post links to inworld stores. As long as you don’t do those things you’re fine.

Only if you have a free account. If you have purchased Pro, then it's fine, you can post or link to anything commercial.

[Pussycat Catnap]

Until all of the other bodies out there stop being absolute crap the moment you dial above 50.1 or below 49.9 or use physics or stand in any pose other than 'T' the only body I will use is Belleza.

(Yeah I am brand opinionated... We Belleza users have the best body, and we know it.)

 

And Freya is the most popular because it has a form that different from other brands, and yet can still be shape dialed to what Isis is limited to. Venus was actually supposed to be retired, Isis was it's replacement - but some people demanded it be kept around.

As long as you use Maitreya and keep all dials around 50 and NEVER MOVE your body is going to be similar to Isis, yet you will have all of that Maitreya fashion support - that keeps users of Isis down. Historic reasons caused Maitreya to overtake Belleza years ago (a nearly 2-3 year period where Belleza would not give out creator kits because they were in an 'updating' status).

Brand loyalty keeps Freya strong. If you're on it, you know why you're on it, and you might have opinions on that even stronger than mine.

 

There are two main belleza groups. One is the product group of the store itself and is mostly used for their line of skins. The other is called a 'creators' group but is actually a user support group complete with a few active CSRs. The reason for this likely relates to that era when the creator kit was on lockdown. For several years there simply were almost no creators in the creators group... so the people in there just started talking to each other... and it became more of a 'support community'... and then when Belleza started getting active again they got us a CSR in there to start talking... but you can't change a group name once it's made...

 

There are also a few flickr groups with 'Belleza' in the name. One of them is actually relevant to the brand, but I believe it is also moderated, probably to keep down on spam.

I don't think Belleza users are really used to being spammed at the way users of other bodies might be. We're more used to being ignored by all those 'Maitreya Exclusive' shops...

But if you've been on Belleza for a while, you probably know to just search MP for 'Belleza' every so often, and go to certain events that don't have too many "Maitreya Exclusive" shops at them...

OP's store... I've now seen it on MP.
- If you want to know how to reach our curmudgeonly community... you can always ask in the Belleza group - how do people find stuff for the body... and then what folks answer, go there and get yourself active. Folks used to even share lists of shops they'd found, back when it was hard to find them... but as a result asking "how do I find things for my belleza body" is a semi-regular topic.

I don't know the character and tone of the groups for other bodies... but our groups are more support and community in nature... so even if the mods let you advertise, it might not be the best place to do so.

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Sylvia Wasp]

On 2/24/2020 at 3:41 PM, Theresa Tennyson said:

Isn't it your brand you want them to promote?

No, lol.  I don't have a brand and I don't believe in brands per se either. 

[Sylvia Wasp]

On 2/24/2020 at 10:42 PM, janetosilio said:

So because there's no Belleza group that allows you to spam ads....they must not want you to create for them? Because....they're....different....

Got it....

You missed the point of there being other avenues to advertise besides sending group notices though.

Wow, this is such a HUGE misrepresentation of what I said. 

There is no "SPAM."  These are notification groups (with rules!) that exist specifically for the promotion of the mesh body brand in question and also to allow makers of clothing or accessories for those brands to let users know of new products. 

All I'm saying is that I want a (very normal, typical) route for notifying Belleza users of new products that I am making explicitly for them.  And that every other mesh body has such a group/route/method. 

[Sylvia Wasp]

On 2/26/2020 at 5:31 PM, Gadget Portal said:

Because you are being unreasonable.

Nailed it.

Nah. 

Everything I'm asking for is not only reasonable it's standard, and provided by every other mesh body brand. 

I'm not looking to "promote my brand" (I don't have a brand and don't personally believe in brand politics/promotion, lol), I'm just looking to let users know about new products I've created for them. 

Not only is there a HUGE difference between a "notice" and a "promotion," the groups in question specifically address this through the use of rules. 

There are rules on the type of notice, the frequency of notices etc. and the *only* people who can post notices are those who have specifically requested access for that purpose and have been screened by the group owners (the actual people who are "promoting their brand"). 

Possibly because neither of you are creators and don't post to these sort of groups, you don't know this? 

Geez, I feel like I'm arguing about these groups exclusively with people who are completely unfamiliar with how they work.  😀

In regards to my question that started this, it seems that the answer is probably ... "no"?

I won't be checking back after this kind of response, so ... argue amongst yourselves, lol.

Sylvia Wasp

[Tazzie Tuque]

12 minutes ago, Sylvia Wasp said:

And that every other mesh body has such a group/route/method. 

They do?  wow that is news to me.. actually I don't think this is correct, pretty sure not ALL other mesh body brands have such a group.

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 minutes ago, Tazzie Tuque said:

They do?  wow that is news to me.. actually I don't think this is correct, pretty sure not ALL other mesh body brands have such a group.

Sylvia used to produce exclusively for Tonic. Tonic has a low enough market share that they allow clothing makers to advertise their new releases in-group. Only I, personally, have turned notices off for that group because the ads instantly became annoying.

[Tazzie Tuque]

29 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Only I, personally, have turned notices off for that group because the ads instantly became annoying.

I have to admit that I do that as well with any group that sends a message at a rate of one per second or maybe not that fast but enough to be very annoying yes, and not only notices but IM group chat as well.  I probably miss some important stuff but, it is still worth shutting them off for MY peace!