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If you could redesign the viewer...

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On 2/18/2020 at 9:06 AM, Cinos Field said:

Having the wireframe outline "highlight" a little dimmer instead of eye-searing bright to the degree I can't see what I'm selecting if it's too densely detailed.

On 2/26/2020 at 8:16 PM, TVTuner said:

BRAVO TO THIS!

image.thumb.png.5425c61b5e618a2331a192e6357638cf.pngimage.thumb.png.b36a4a75d4886c481b71d38e0d252611.pngimage.thumb.png.11e87bb74548d84d61843cbd534c5887.png

Wireframe, Default-like, Black Dragon's default.

Thats 450k tris selected right there. Did i mention the framerate staying usable?

image.png.e8ad50fdd4d53b374aa735071abc6e36.png

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On 2/17/2020 at 5:02 AM, Pussycat Catnap said:

Make movement like in EVERY OTHER 3D environment. A & D move, not turn. Left-Clicking anywhere just activates 'turn+move with mouse with camera following' like some MMOs

Why not make it a chooseable option, like a tick box. If you want it to be like video game controls/camera, or default Second Life Controls/Camera. I find using the arrow keys in SL and using WASD in gaming, much easier for me. I am weird I know.

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4 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

Why not make it a chooseable option, like a tick box. If you want it to be like video game controls/camera, or default Second Life Controls/Camera. I find using the arrow keys in SL and using WASD in gaming, much easier for me. I am weird I know.

Better yet, make all keys fully rebindable. But who would do that?

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7 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I'd rather see the suggestion made by someone else...be able to move all the windows off onto a second monitor.

Yeah.

Lacking such... is why all the HUDs I've made myself, my own scripts that is... don't use touch. They use listen channels. I drag them off screen and control things with chat commands to select channels. Can't do that for the base UI... but at least all my 'things' are not using up any screen space.

I've even moved some of them into body parts... my Neko tail for example, holds an AO for assorted bento parts. I ripped animations out of the HUDs they came with, and wrote my own controller... Otherwise my screen would have looked like that one above with 2/3rd blocked out...

 

So here's a feature I'd like... make EVERY window in the UI openable with a chat command on an obvious channel that is not local chat... what channel being one you can set in preferences. As an OPTION... So you could still fill your screen with buttons... or choose not to...

So let's say I wanted to open my inventory and had set my channel as "42" in preferences...

/42i

- inventory opens or closes.

/42c

- camera controls

/42M

- map

/42m

- mini-map

etc...

Maybe let me set what command does what too... some people might actually like typing out a whole word...

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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Well, we sort of have that anyway...for example, CTRL+I opens and closes the inventory window, and it's in the last place you left it before you closed it.

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What I'd really like to see is way too ambitious for current LL management. But here's my list:

For users:

  • Automatic frame rate maintenance. Never let the frame rate drop below 10-20 FPS, even if the graphics quality has to be reduced temporarily.
  • Show overly complex avatars in impostor mode, insanely complex as jellydolls.
  • Enough multithreading that you can always type, even if the viewer is overloaded.
  • Multithreaded rendering. Yes, it's really hard. But everybody else has it now.
  • Modern camera control. If there's something between camera and avatar, the camera has to move down or in. None of this sitting down and the camera is behind a wall.
  • Beyond draw range, show the SL map for areas above water. Extra credit, project the map on a very low rez terrain mesh, like 1000 triangles per sim. Further out, groups of 4 sims are one mesh, then groups of 16 sims, like the way the map works as you zoom out. Like Google Earth. See all the way to the horizon! Then improve this by taking pictures for the SL map from low altitude, below the layer of ads.
  • On region crossings, do motion prediction with a low-pass filter on linear velocity, and zero out rotation rate and acceleration when predicting across a region crossing. No more big bogus motion, but a little rubber-banding to keep the sailors happy.
  • On region crossings, defer processing object updates for child prims until the parent has crossed. This would eliminate some visual artifacts at region crossings.
  • Smarten up the order of texture loading. If you're stationary, prioritize what's in the view field, close stuff first. If you're moving, prioritize what's going to be in the view field soon. None of this standing in front of a sign for two minutes waiting for a readable image.
  • Support mobile devices (that's coming) and game consoles. (Check out the specs on the upcoming Sony PS5 and XBox X. Those are very powerful devices.)

For creators:

  • A much better uploader. Accept one COLLADA file with all LODs, prims, and textures in one file, and get it into SL with no problems. Check for duplicated textures and don't re-upload and don't charge. Don't require that all LODs have the same textures, only that the total number of textures doesn't exceed some limit. This would allow displaying the low LODs without loading the textures for the higher ones.  Couple this with official tools for Blender and Maya to help generate really good LOD images, with the lower LODs using baked normals from the higher LODs to represent surface detail efficiently.
  • Catch LODs with holes that make them see-through at upload time. Make that an upload error.
  • Automatic criticism of meshes and textures, based on screen area per triangle for meshes and texels per pixel for textures. The creator can ignore this and still upload  But the same info will be computed by Marketplace and will be displayed to potential customers.

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On 2/18/2020 at 9:06 PM, Cinos Field said:

Having the wireframe outline "highlight" a little dimmer instead of eye-searing bright to the degree I can't see what I'm selecting if it's too densely detailed.

^^ this very much Linden please!

can we have it as a debug setting please! So we can adjust it to suit ourselves

 

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2 hours ago, animats said:

 

  • Automatic frame rate maintenance. Never let the frame rate drop below 10-20 FPS, even if the graphics quality has to be reduced temporarily.

i would like this, and I would like it also if I could set my max graphics frame rate (for the inworld view) adding (hopefully) more CPU time to other things like inputs

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7 hours ago, NiranV Dean said:

Better yet, make all keys fully rebindable. But who would do that?

LL in an upcoming maintenance release! :P

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I guess I don't "get it".  I have been moving with WASD+EC in SL for ever ….  It's in all the tutorials, too.  What am I missing?

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4 hours ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

It's in Viewer-Neko https://bitbucket.org/lindenlab/viewer-neko/

The commits tagged with SL-6109

 

7 hours ago, Ansariel Hiller said:

LL in an upcoming maintenance release! :P

Doesn't look like they seem to allow adding more keybinds. Just a very very static and fixed way of rebinding the already available slots. Which are just the Primary and two alternative binds per action. I suppose that's okay for the simple goal of rebinding controls but once again they could have done it properly and went all the way through with this. Same with the upcoming custom camera presets.

 

We'll see i guess.

Edited by NiranV Dean

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On 2/27/2020 at 6:37 PM, Lindal Kidd said:

I'd rather see the suggestion made by someone else...be able to move all the windows off onto a second monitor.

Yes, that too.  The same workaround would still apply though, just make a prim HUD and stretch it to fill the second screen to form a plain background.

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@Whirly Fizzle

On a side note. Was there any specific reason why FS didn’t add the ability to move the chat windows to another screen, to the FS viewer?. If me memory serves me correctly it was the FS team that created the proof of concept right?

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I'm going to say something controversial, but I imagine the vast majority of users never even bother with content creation at all. The current viewer should be rebranded an editor and made for power users.

The actual viewer should have all the editing and advanced features removed. Make it 100% focused on customizing your avatar, being social, and getting the most performance out of the viewer as possible. I always imagined an avatar editor more like in the SIMS. The current one feels more like a chore. It should be a full screen mode, with your avatar in a 360 degree preview you can freely move around and see changes in real time. It should be made as simple and  not intimidating as possible. I think all these menus, folders, etc are very confusing to new users and stop them from coming back. SL's biggest problem right now is getting new users and keeping them. Making the new user experience a lot more enjoyable would be a huge boon for SL. And making the viewer simpler, easier to use, and less scary to new users would be huge.

All the viewer really needs is

1. An easy way to customize your avatar

2. An easy and convenient way to buy things and buy L$

3. Quick and easy communication with other members

The editor should go all out hardcore with advanced options, menus, features, etc. Just add features, even if they're confusing or difficult to use, if they help people create content and get things done in SL. The current viewer tries to please content creators and content consumers and it's just oo overwhelming for new users.

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16 minutes ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

I'm going to say something controversial, but I imagine the vast majority of users never even bother with content creation at all. The current viewer should be rebranded an editor and made for power users.

The actual viewer should have all the editing and advanced features removed. Make it 100% focused on customizing your avatar, being social, and getting the most performance out of the viewer as possible. I always imagined an avatar editor more like in the SIMS. The current one feels more like a chore. It should be a full screen mode, with your avatar in a 360 degree preview you can freely move around and see changes in real time. It should be made as simple and  not intimidating as possible. I think all these menus, folders, etc are very confusing to new users and stop them from coming back. SL's biggest problem right now is getting new users and keeping them. Making the new user experience a lot more enjoyable would be a huge boon for SL. And making the viewer simpler, easier to use, and less scary to new users would be huge.

All the viewer really needs is

1. An easy way to customize your avatar

2. An easy and convenient way to buy things and buy L$

3. Quick and easy communication with other members

The editor should go all out hardcore with advanced options, menus, features, etc. Just add features, even if they're confusing or difficult to use, if they help people create content and get things done in SL. The current viewer tries to please content creators and content consumers and it's just oo overwhelming for new users.

Tried that.  People would not use it.  This experiment was long enough ago the basic viewer is not usable now, or I would suggest you review it.

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God, yes.  I recall the BASIC LL viewer back in my early SL days before 2010.  It was AWFUL.  Let's not try to reinvent the square wheel it was tried and it didn't work then.  It is far less likely a concept to work now.  I may not create any content but I use quite advanced editing tools simply to as you put it. Flea, to customize my avatar.

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The basic viewer was a poor fit for everyone.

New users outgrew it super quickly and were left frustrated wondering how to accomplish basic tasks, experienced users found it pointless.

There was no performance difference between the two viewers. None what-so-ever.

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