thatshowigetmyvibes Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Disclaimer: I apologize if this is not the "correct" forum discussion, but it's general and I'd like quick answers for my stupid questions. So I'm new to SL, 2 years in. I've decided I want to buy land. However there's so many different terms people have told me. "Regions", "Sims", "Parcels", etc. I'm just trying to understand what's the best deal and where to buy it (Obviously Linden Labs most likely would have the best deal) But any help is greatly appreciated. I do apologize for sounding like a noob, but I'm huge into businesses and Second Life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanova Shostakovich Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Region and SIM are used interchangeably by some. Region is more correct. SIM, short for Simulator, is the computer and/or computer core on which a region is running (being simulated). A parcel is a plot of land in a region. The best deals depend on what kind of land you want, which can be dictated by your intended use of it. Land has different ratings; General, Moderate, and Adult. Differently rated land will have different scales of value. More information about these ratings can be found here. The best way to find out what a good deal is, is to look around for land that is for sale in regions containing your desired maturity rating. Then you can see what high and low sale prices are, and try to find a parcel size and price that is right for you. Land sales by residents can be done in two ways, direct sale to anyone, or to a specific individual; or by auction, as desired by the land owner. Buying land directly from LL, in my experience, will always involve an auction, which usually results from Governor Linden reclaiming land that has been abandoned and auctioning it. But sometimes, new areas of land created by LL, such as the Horizons regions, will also be sold by auction. When you look on the map to see land for sale, normal sales will be highlighted in yellow, and auctions in purple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatshowigetmyvibes Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 Thank you for the great information. I'm just trying to wrap my head around what would be the best option right now. I'll check out your link in one sec. I do have a question about the auctions, are they essentially servers just being auctioned by Linden Labs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahala Roviana Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 You can also find great deals on abandoned mainland. They're a little tricky to find, but can usually be purchased from LL for 1 L$ per square meter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindal Kidd Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) Hi, @thatshowigetmyvibes! Land, along with scripting and modeling mesh objects, is one of the most complex topics in Second Life. I teach a weekly class about it, on Saturdays, at 12 noon SL time, at Caledon Oxbridge University. The class runs about two hours, and is free to attend. I hope to see you there! In the meantime, here is a very sketchy outline. It's best to start small, until you get some experience and actually understand how land "works". Two very easy ways to do this are: Rent some land from another resident, either on the mainland or on a private estate, or Get a Premium membership and get a free Linden Home, or buy a mainland parcel of up to 1,024 square meters. There are two types of land in SL: Mainland, and Private Estates. Mainland is land owned and managed by LL. Estates are regions, or groups of regions, owned and managed by another resident. There are pluses and minuses to both types of land. Mainland has fewer restrictions on what you can build or do; estates generally impose additional rules, set by the estate owner. On the other hand, private estates can be visually more pleasant than mainland and may perform slightly better. Also, a good estate owner will often be more available to solve problems than LL. You have to be a Premium member to own Mainland. Mainland can be purchased from LL via the land auctions, as Ivanova says. Much oftener, it is purchased directly from the current owner. Look at the Mainland using the world Map, with the Land Sale box checked in the map legend. The yellow parcels you see are for sale. Go to one that seems interesting. Right click the ground, choose About Land. Read about the land's size, price, prim capacity, and maturity level. If you want to buy it, click the Buy Land button and follow the prompts. You can own up to 1,024 sq m. of Mainland without having to pay a monthly land fee (called "tier".) If you own more than that, you pay a monthly fee to LL, in $USD, according to the table here: https://secondlife.com/my/account/landfees.php?lang=en-US You can also use Search to look for land. I generally use both the Map and Search together. If you don't want to pay for a Premium membership, you can still rent land on the mainland from another resident, or you can rent land on a private estate (most estates will call this "buying" land, but it is really a form of rental.) You will pay the estate owner a weekly or monthly fee in $L for the land. When renting land on an estate, read the covenant carefully. This is found in the Covenant tab of the About Land window. Be sure you get any questions answered BEFORE you pay your money. Regarding your latest question about auctions: The land being auctioned is not "servers". They are land PARCELS...that is, a small portion of a region. The region is running on a server somewhere. ANY time you own or rent land in SL, what you are really doing is renting a bit of space and time on a server...so yes, in a sense you are right. But you may find it less confusing to forget about the servers behind the curtain and just think about land and square meters and prims. Edited February 13, 2020 by Lindal Kidd 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatshowigetmyvibes Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 I own my own land, for my own house. I've already played around with Breeding and such. I've observed many businesses. I'm just trying to figure out what's the best deal. Any links provided, would be totally amazing. Any Tips as well. I don't want to DIVE in, but I've been studying business IRL and I own a business irl. so this will be fine. I just need to understand the Terms, I mean I want to basically own my own Simulator, if that makes sense. A server, if that makes more sense. Or Land that I own. No rules, until I create them with my lawyer while abiding to the Linden Labs TOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahala Roviana Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I don't know what kind of rules you need that requires the involvement of an attorney, but hey, go for it. I suggest you check the knowledge base for information, or heck, get that lawyer to do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, thatshowigetmyvibes said: I mean I want to basically own my own Simulator, if that makes sense. A server, if that makes more sense. Or Land that I own. No rules, until I create them with my lawyer while abiding to the Linden Labs TOS. what you describe here is only possible at Open Sim, but you'll be apart of Second life.( not owned by LL but all kind of small businesses and individuals) IN SL you can buy a Region... or multiple, but you will be always tied to LL and pay them maintenance fees. Also LL TOS will apply always. Let a lawyer set a special pack of rules sounds to me as overdone. Edited February 13, 2020 by Alwin Alcott 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindal Kidd Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 You can certainly buy your own private estate region. It will cost you an up-front fee of $349 USD, and a monthly fee of $229. That may sound high, but it is MUCH lower than it was just a few years ago. Details may be found here: https://community.secondlife.com/knowledgebase/english/private-regions-r59/ As an estate owner, you may make any rules you wish (within the LL ToS)...or none at all. In SL the Golden Rule is "He who owns the land, makes the rules". You may be as arbitrary and capricious as you like in deciding who may visit your land, or be banned therefrom. Rather than buying a region direct from LL, you can buy an existing region from another resident. This has two potential benefits: You might get a better deal. People who sell regions are often willing to take a loss. You can pay an additional fee to get a "grandfathered" region. These are regions that are only charged a monthly fee of $179 USD, rather than the usual $229. You will eventually recover the cost of the higher purchase price in lower monthly costs. Find regions for sale here: https://community.secondlife.com/forums/forum/284-regions-for-sale-full-private-island/ NOTE: Do NOT pay a resident directly. Be sure to follow the procedure for transferring a region between residents, found here: https://community.secondlife.com/knowledgebase/english/private-regions-r59/#Section_3_2 Be sure you understand all the factors involved in buying a region. Regions may be re-located to a different place on the grid, and re-named. It's best to take care of this at the purchase, as it will cost you money to do it later. The Maturity level of a region may be set by you, unlike Mainland. Normally, a private region supports 20,000 prims, but some regions pay an extra monthly fee to support up to 30,000. As Alwin says, you cannot own your own server and tie it to the Second Life grid. SL is a "closed world". If having control of the hardware is important to you, check out http://www.opensimulator.org and see my blog post, https://acrossthegridwithlindal.blogspot.com/2018/03/replacements-and-alternatives-to-second.html 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Take Lindal's class............. seriously, do it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatshowigetmyvibes Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 On 2/13/2020 at 2:03 PM, Mahala Roviana said: I don't know what kind of rules you need that requires the involvement of an attorney, but hey, go for it. I suggest you check the knowledge base for information, or heck, get that lawyer to do it. You never know, that's the thing. I have business experience IRL and I own a chat server (non-affiliated with SL) and it's been running strong for over 10 years. So I'm very much hyped! I have come across weird things over those years, and just consulted a Lawyer just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatshowigetmyvibes Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 21 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Take Lindal's class............. seriously, do it. Okay.. how do I do that? Because see, there's these terms I understand, but mix them up. I'm trying to understand and cover all bases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatshowigetmyvibes Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 On 2/13/2020 at 2:09 PM, Lindal Kidd said: You can certainly buy your own private estate region. It will cost you an up-front fee of $349 USD, and a monthly fee of $229. That may sound high, but it is MUCH lower than it was just a few years ago. Details may be found here: https://community.secondlife.com/knowledgebase/english/private-regions-r59/ As an estate owner, you may make any rules you wish (within the LL ToS)...or none at all. In SL the Golden Rule is. "He who owns the land, makes the rules" You may be as arbitrary and capricious as you like in deciding who may visit your land, or be banned therefrom. Rather than buying a region direct from LL, you can buy an existing region from another resident. This has two potential benefits: You might get a better deal. People who sell regions are often willing to take a loss. You can pay an additional fee to get a "grandfathered" region. These are regions that are only charged a monthly fee of $179 USD, rather than the usual $229. You will eventually recover the cost of the higher purchase price in lower monthly costs. Find regions for sale here: https://community.secondlife.com/forums/forum/284-regions-for-sale-full-private-island/ NOTE: Do NOT pay a resident directly. Be sure to follow the procedure for transferring a region between residents, found here: https://community.secondlife.com/knowledgebase/english/private-regions-r59/#Section_3_2 Be sure you understand all the factors involved in buying a region. Regions may be re-located to a different place on the grid, and re-named. It's best to take care of this at the purchase, as it will cost you money to do it later. The Maturity level of a region may be set by you, unlike Mainland. Normally, a private region supports 20,000 prims, but some regions pay an extra monthly fee to support up to 30,000. As Alwin says, you cannot own your own server and tie it to the Second Life grid. SL is a "closed world". If having control of the hardware is important to you, check out http://www.opensimulator.org and see my blog post, https://acrossthegridwithlindal.blogspot.com/2018/03/replacements-and-alternatives-to-second.html Can I pay the 349$ USD annually and get a discount via linden labs? because I'm Canadian.. (which sucks, I'll have to have my accountant to check what's best). So it'll be 349$ as a one time payment, but also $229 additionally for a one time cost and then $229 monthly. Do Canadians get discriminated in any way when it comes to buying land? (not trying to sound rude but perhaps there's laws..) I do enjoy ""He who owns the land, makes the rules" that I do enjoy. ** Stupid Question ** is an estate owner..... a region? *** Also if you buy from someone else who is an "estate owner" does that make you the "boss" or the person on top is always the boss? (say I buy something via market place it says REAL ESTATE, does it also let me be the boss...such as make rules, because the ONLY thing I really am getting frustrated are some LANDS say "for real estate" but I want to buy it for BUSINESS, with real estate options. Maybe. Someone also told me to go small and not huge at first. **See these are the terms I'm talking about. Some will say: Region, Parcel (which I think I understand what that means), Sim, other terms I forget. Are there any clarifications? So the region part is the whole entire sim? It makes you real estate? is it the same thing Linden is selling? But cheaper? (When you said Rather than buying a region direct from LL, you can buy an existing region from another resident. This has two potential benefits: You might get a better deal. People who sell regions are often willing to take a loss. You can pay an additional fee to get a "grandfathered" region. These are regions that are only charged a monthly fee of $179 USD, rather than the usual $229. You will eventually recover the cost of the higher purchase price in lower monthly costs." Thank you for the link of safety, I've been ripped off before. I have more questions but will ask soon. I'm getting stressed out. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufferta Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 On 2/13/2020 at 8:49 AM, thatshowigetmyvibes said: Disclaimer: I apologize if this is not the "correct" forum discussion, but it's general and I'd like quick answers for my stupid questions. So I'm new to SL, 2 years in. I've decided I want to buy land. However there's so many different terms people have told me. "Regions", "Sims", "Parcels", etc. I'm just trying to understand what's the best deal and where to buy it (Obviously Linden Labs most likely would have the best deal) But any help is greatly appreciated. I do apologize for sounding like a noob, but I'm huge into businesses and Second Life. Lindal Kidd teaches a "How to Buy Land" class that is excellent, and you can ask her questions after the lecture. I recommend it highly. If you want to know "How Not to Buy Land", I've made every mistake in the book and I wrote a long article at https://thesecondlifetourist.blogspot.com/2016/07/draft-how-not-to-buy-real-estate-in_79.html . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatshowigetmyvibes Posted February 14, 2020 Author Share Posted February 14, 2020 Just now, Rufferta said: Lindal Kidd teaches a "How to Buy Land" class that is excellent, and you can ask her questions after the lecture. I recommend it highly. If you want to know "How Not to Buy Land", I've made every mistake in the book and I wrote a long article at https://thesecondlifetourist.blogspot.com/2016/07/draft-how-not-to-buy-real-estate-in_79.html . Okay I'll speak to Lindal Kidd. Also thank you for the article. I'm going to check it out now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicea Igaly Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) Hi there, All, I'm eavesdropping because I want to buy a private region from LL--either the Plain Prairie or the Loch Lake. In want to go to Lindal's class. Lindal? Where is TP point for your class please? I can't come before March 7. I want to have a lake in the middle that I can swim in and I need depth because my Kismet home has an underground cellar. How can I know the below terraform level of a Loch Lake region. And are some "servers" better/more state-of-the-art than others. Thanks... Edited February 18, 2020 by Elicea Igaly did not mean to post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindal Kidd Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) Hi, @Elicea Igaly! My class doesn't cover the purchase of private regions in detail (although you are still very welcome to attend, and I'll send you a landmark!) See below for some pertinent points... You can buy a private region either directly from LL, or you can buy an existing private region from another resident, using LL as an "escrow service". Buying a "used" region has two potential benefits. You may save a little over the $349 initial purchase price that LL charges. You may be able to buy a "grandfathered" region. These regions have a monthly cost of only $179, vs. the usual fee of $229. You must pay an additional fee up front to transfer the grandfathered status to the new owner, but you will make up that cost in about a year of ownership. Find regions for sale in this forum: https://community.secondlife.com/forums/forum/284-regions-for-sale-full-private-island/ When buying from another resident, never pay them any money directly. The seller and the buyer file mutual support tickets with LL, and the buyer (you) pays LL the sales price. LL holds your money in escrow until the region is transferred, and then pays the seller. Be sure to work out all the details...whether the region will be relocated on the grid and/or renamed, etc. Here's the official details on the process: https://community.secondlife.com/knowledgebase/english/managing-private-regions-r50/#Section_5 If you decide to buy a "new" region directly from LL, you can buy any of the styles advertised in LL's land store (Loch Lake does look verra nice, even if the name translates to "Lake Lake"!) But you don't have to stick with the pre-made terrain. You can terraform your region yourself in either of two ways: You can use the land tools in the viewer to raise up or lower the land. This can be done with "brushes" of various sizes and strengths, or you can make a rectangular selection by dragging your mouse, and apply an effect to the whole selection. Terraforming is fun, and there's a region where you can practice it. I'll send you that landmark, too. Running your mouse up and down something the size of an entire region can be tedious. You can get terrain texture map RAW files and apply a whole look to the region instantly, in much the same way you would apply a sculpt map to a prim sphere to create a sculpty prim. You can make your own terrain maps, if you have the (rather expensive) software (one is called TerraGen). But there are also low cost region terrain maps available in the Marketplace. Do a search on "terrain file" in the Marketplace to find lots! No matter how you obtain your region...from a resident, or from LL...you can always use the land tools to fine tune the terraforming. You can make your lake deeper or shallower. Private regions may be terraformed much more extremely than Mainland. On the Mainland, you're limited to +/- 4 meters from the level(s) at which the land was originally created by LL. On your private region, you have +/- 100 meters to play with! Use it with discretion! You can also apply up to four ground textures to your land. You can set the elevations at which the texture changes, for example, from sand to grass to mountain rock. These elevations have a deliberate amount of uncertainty built into them; this results in a more natural-looking transition between terrain textures, but it can be frustrating when you want your sand to stop EXACTLY at the water line. Not going to happen. All of the above only establishes the "bare bones" look of the region. The next step is the artistic placement of rocks and plants to really make the land look "real". If you are skilled with Blender, you can create your own mesh cliffs, boulders, rocky arches, etc. But if not, there is a huge selection of content available on the Marketplace. Any regular, or "full" private region will perform a bit better than a Mainland region. Be frugal about the use of high-triangle mesh objects and high resolution textures to keep it that way! You can support up to 100 avatars, as opposed to 50 on the Mainland. All the servers these days are quite capable (and I don't think you can ask LL for a particular server "generation" anyway.) Hope that helps! EDIT (because I just can't leave this one alone!) "Underground cellars" are very interesting. If the land is well above sea level, you can dig a hole (lower the land under the house) enough so that the cellar floor is below the surrounding level of the ground. The easiest way I've found to do this is to simply place the house, then go (or cam) into the cellar and start using the land's lowering tool to "dig out" the cellar. When done, go back to the surface and tidy up any trenches around the foundations of the house. You may need a house with wide verandas and porches to completely hide things, as land cannot be terraformed with completely vertical sides...there's always a little slope to them. If the land is "water land"...all under water...artificial land made of prims may be placed around the house, putting it on an "island". The cellar area extends under the water. I have made some very nice "secret underwater rooms" with one way view windows looking out on scenes of swimming fish in this way. Underwater rooms may be made to look less "underwater" by means of clever lighting and by putting the ceiling of the room below the level of the water surface. Edited February 18, 2020 by Lindal Kidd 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elicea Igaly Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Thank you so much Lindal. Very comprehensive. And thanks for the LM's. I'll see you in March. I did not expect to learn details about purchase. I believe you have a wealth of land knowledge and tips and tricks. I learned a lot in this explanation--like the Terragen software, and searching for "terrain files' on marketplace and the need to know Blender for creating custom boulders, etc. and, (grins) that getting "your sand to stop EXACTLY at the water line. Not going to happen." LOL! Got it! LOL! In total this full explanation helps a lot in grasping the real deal--it's not a weekend or one-month job (smiles). /Elicea copies to read again later/ i may not take the leap this month. I'll look forward to attending your class(s) See you in March. Many thanks \(*_*)/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torry Turner Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Lindal's class is amazing. I took it this previous Saturday. It is worth it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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