Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Sire Sands

Male Mesh Head - Catwa or another, for Jake?

Recommended Posts

Upgrading myself from classic to mesh after a few years absence, and have a good Jake body now, and a few pieces of clothing that work. Am mastering the Jake HUD, so that part's ok.

Next step will be a head. I went to Catwa (heard they are good), saw a very limited offering of heads - 5 or 6 total? Seemed small selection, but got demos for Daniel and Victor. Opening them it's like a treasure box, a whole ton of stuff -which I have to learn what's what, and how to use.

Are there better heads than Catwa for Jake? I don't mind $5,000L purchase one-time if it's the right fit, looks good, and I can edit it for my look. I was wondering if I'm missing a better choice for my Jake body.

I still don't know yet if I'll *be required* to have skins after this, and an applier, and oh what a road I'm on ;) ..the wife said skins are for the head, not the body, in mesh, and folks add them or change them on the head they have to "look different, try something different," etc.

Thanks for any notes,

Sire Sands aka Michael Destiny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Catwa + jake has the one advantage of having matching skins included. It also has the disadvantage of likely wearing the same skin as a thousand other people...

My advice would be the same as for a female avatar: go shop around for demos of other brands - try out a LOT of them... This is the kind of purchase you really want to get right because it's your avatar's face and that really has to look like the 'you' you want to see yourself as in SL.

It's a lot less about brand than it is about finding yourself.

 

As for skins...

you will need to find a skin that has either appliers and/or BOM for BOTH the body and head. If you just shop for one side of that you're going to end up looking really weird...

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Sire Sands said:

I went to Catwa (heard they are good), saw a very limited offering of heads - 5 or 6 total?

There are currently nine male Bento mesh heads at Catwa: Daniel, Stanley, Shaheen, Dino, Victor, Skell, Dude, Gac, and Travis. There are an additional three non-Bento male heads (Justin, Jackson, and Paul) but I will assume you probably want Bento.

The other most created-for Bento mesh heads for men are by Lelutka, and they have two: Andrea and Guy.

As to which is 'better' I will say that whichever one you prefer will be the best one for you. And I say that despite being a CSR for one of the two above-mentioned brands. I'm happy to help with any questions specific to that brand, but I'm a firm believer in allowing people to make their own choices, so I will never 'shill' for that brand here; only offer advice when requested.

Pick up lots of demos, test them and their HUDs thoroughly, edit the shape that they come with to see if you can create the kind of look that you want (in other words: check how responsive they are to the sliders and whether you can work with that), and check Marketplace for availability of appliers (and Bakes on Mesh [BOM] layers for that specific head; yes, it does help if they are created specifically for that head, otherwise some textured parts such as lips and eyelid creases may not sit perfectly well on the 3D mesh).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Catwa + jake has the one advantage of having matching skins included. It also has the disadvantage of likely wearing the same skin as a thousand other people...

My advice would be the same as for a female avatar: go shop around for demos of other brands - try out a LOT of them... This is the kind of purchase you really want to get right because it's your avatar's face and that really has to look like the 'you' you want to see yourself as in SL.

It's a lot less about brand than it is about finding yourself.

 

As for skins...

you will need to find a skin that has either appliers and/or BOM for BOTH the body and head. If you just shop for one side of that you're going to end up looking really weird...

 

Exactly what I needed to hear.. yes, I want to find "me" and "my look" ..will look for more demos, and keep looking.. hey, no rush for perfection, right?!
"finding yourself" ..that's the ticket.. thank you, Captnap :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

There are currently nine male Bento mesh heads at Catwa: Daniel, Stanley, Shaheen, Dino, Victor, Skell, Dude, Gac, and Travis. There are an additional three non-Bento male heads (Justin, Jackson, and Paul) but I will assume you probably want Bento.
>> I'll have to go look again, thanks!

The other most created-for Bento mesh heads for men are by Lelutka, and they have two: Andrea and Guy.
>> Will give those a look-see.. thanks..

<snip>

Pick up lots of demos, test them and their HUDs thoroughly, edit the shape that they come with to see if you can create the kind of look that you want (in other words: check how responsive they are to the sliders and whether you can work with that), and check Marketplace for availability of appliers (and Bakes on Mesh [BOM] layers for that specific head; yes, it does help if they are created specifically for that head, otherwise some textured parts such as lips and eyelid creases may not sit perfectly well on the 3D mesh).
>> I see a lot of time needed, but I can find myself over time.. appliers is something I'm learning about still.. will find out which work well for me.. I've heard of Omega so far...

Thanks Dagger...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Birth has BoM and Stray Dog has updated their 2019 skins... working on older skins too.

I am sure there are more male skin creators, but I concentrate on Stray Dog... I am biased because I like what he makes. https://www.flickr.com/photos/gac_akina/with/49458453587/

So if you find the heads difficult to use, you will find BoM easier. You style a mesh head with BoM just as we did before. Add and remove tattoo layers direct from your inventory, no need to fiddle with slots on the head you turn on and off.

Catwa are BoM ready now, I like LeLutka very much too. They have only 2 male heads, but they are good.

BoM gives you unlimited (almost) possiblities. I think it's 64 layers we can have. You can start with a browless skin and add other brows. That is one of the things I think changes a skin most. Then you can layer freckles, birthmarks, tattoos, hairbase, eyeliner and beards.

I am sure you have some favorite beards on tattoo layers.... now you can keep them. Same with tattoos. If the body has BoM too.

Skell has a blog, and you can read his instructions about BoM: http://www.virtualbloke.com/archives/3449

It will be so easy, as soon as you have the head and body BoM ready. No need to add appliers and a HUD, wait for the textures to rez so you can see what you want to select, click on the applier, select slots on the head and upper/lower layer. Use the wrong slots, clear them and start over...

Instead: Open inventory, find what you will wear, add the layer. Done!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Marianne,

You are a wealth of information, going to check out Birth and Stray Dog, definitely. You have made a clear lucid argument for BoM.. I was terrified that even when a get done, I'm not done, because I have to then figure out what is BoM, and how can I use it, do I need it? You put those questions to rest. Well, still more exploring.. the avi is central to the entire SL experience I've come to believe, and the motions, look, personality, and character (read as:you) come through now so much different than a few years ago.

Appreciate the input, and will look at Skell's blog too...

Sire Sands / Michael Destiny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my two cents...

First, LeLutka is coming out with a third head that might be worth waiting for. The recently teased the following picture on their Discord Server :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/670329693345546272/671461520927883292/skyler.png

Second, also check out a skin store called, "NOT FOUND," they have been doing great work lately. Mostly Catwa Appliers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/juliiocoast/

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Sire Sands said:

I want to find "me" and "my look" ..will look for more demos, and keep looking.. hey, no rush for perfection, right?!

That is exactly right.

Your own you and look will come from a combination of shape + skin.
Do not rush this, take weeks if you have to. Shape the demos around, try different skins on them.
Remember, you can makes copies of the demo heads, so you can make sub folders with shapes and heads with different skins applied to them to swap back and forward.

Do not worry about the shape of your body at this point, the body is comparatively easy, the more effort you put on the shape of your face, the more of an "identity" you'll have.

I'll give you an unpopular opinion: Most people will look for a head that they like, and start working from there. The problem with this is, because they like the head's starting point they have some difficulty moving away from that starting point and end up looking near stock.
Try to work on one you don't like, put some hours into it, try different skins, when you do this you might take it so far away from that starting point it becomes un-recognizable and THAT is the best way to avoid the "clone" look.

I check on Flickr a few times a week, I follow about 1000 people and I get to see even more pictures posted in groups and let me tell you, sometimes it's hard to say who's who, I've asked people in world several times before "is this you on this picture?" only to have they say no, and my confusion comes from the fact that they use a very close to stock shape coupled with popular skins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

Second, also check out a skin store called, "NOT FOUND," they have been doing great work lately. Mostly Catwa Appliers.

The most recent releases are dedicated to LeLutka, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

my two cents...

First, LeLutka is coming out with a third head that might be worth waiting for. The recently teased the following picture on their Discord Server :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/670329693345546272/671461520927883292/skyler.png

That new Lelutka head looks yummy. Any idea on a release date?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

my two cents...

First, LeLutka is coming out with a third head that might be worth waiting for. The recently teased the following picture on their Discord Server :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/670329693345546272/671461520927883292/skyler.png

Second, also check out a skin store called, "NOT FOUND," they have been doing great work lately. Mostly Catwa Appliers.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/juliiocoast/

Sounds like good help, Orion.. definitely will check out LeLutka.. and NOT FOUND..

Thank you,

Sire Sands

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Dean.. that's exactly the approach I'll go for and find myself in the clay. Wasn't it Michelangelo that said something like, “I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free.” That's the task for us in here, finding ourselves in a new world.

Thanks,

Sire Sands

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

   GA.EG also make male heads, that I think come with all the expected blows and whistles. I do own one, but I think I've worn it for less than an hour in total - a sub-brand (I think) of theirs also make bento beards ('Magnificent').

   Might be worth giving them a look and see what you think at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are in a period of change, where not enough skin creators offer BoM. Not Found is mentioned, but they have only 1 BoM skin for males (yet).

Skell could explain this better, but I will try: The part you need, is a BoM skin.. Because the BoM skin is the canvas, that you can layer both BoM and appliers over. If you use a skin applier, you create not a canvas, but a barrier that blocks BoM. You are then forced to use only appliers, and have that sorting of slots again. 

Instead, if you had your BoM skin canvas, you could apply a hairbase, and then add a tattoolayer with ease. Giving you the possibility to utilize both appliers and layers, the best versatility mesh heads can offer. (As of February 2020).

I do not think the average SL user understand this yet, they think BoM is so difficult. But it is instead a big improvement, and makes heads easier to use, as soon as the BoM skin is in place.

Edited by Marianne Little

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

We are in a period of change, where not enough skin creators offer BoM. Not Found is mentioned, but they have only 1 BoM skin for males (yet).

Skell could explain this better, but I will try: The part you need, is a BoM skin.. Because the BoM skin is the canvas, that you can layer both BoM and appliers over. If you use a skin applier, you create not a canvas, but a barrier that blocks BoM. You are then forced to use only appliers, and have that sorting of slots again. 

Instead, if you had your BoM skin canvas, you could apply a hairbase, and then add a tattoolayer with ease. Giving you the possibility to utilize both appliers and layers, the best versatility mesh heads can offer. (As of February 2020).

I do not think the average SL user understand this yet, they think BoM is so difficult. But it is instead a big improvement, and makes heads easier to use, as soon as the BoM skin is in place.

While I don't disagree with any of the points you explicitly made in your post, I do have a question about a possible implied point. 

Are you saying that we should ONLY recommend stores that offer BOM versions of their skins?

If so, then I would have to politely disagree. 

As you stated in your post, we are in "period of change." At this point in time, I would argue BOM is just an alternate way of applying textures to Mesh Bodies; just another tool in our bag of tricks.

Perhaps in a year or so, when BOM has become more ubiquitous, I will probably agree.

NOT FOUND is a great store that has been killing it lately with its wide variety of male skins. It deserves to be recommended, regardless of its BOM status.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Matty Luminos said:

That new Lelutka head looks yummy. Any idea on a release date?

Unfortunately, no. 😒 I tried asking in Discord, but never got a reply.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a handful of male skin makers with BOM skins; aside from those already mentioned, there's also Session (about half their skins are BOM-ready so far) and 7 Deadly Skins which has always had classic system skins available. 

Plastik; while they do primarily fantasy skins they have some regular ones too, though they're not the most masculine ones (which is why I wear them).

Egozy body skins have classic layers but not the heads.

If Birth is doing them, I would assume Nivaro too, though I haven't checked them lately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

While I don't disagree with any of the points you explicitly made in your post, I do have a question about a possible implied point. 

Are you saying that we should ONLY recommend stores that offer BOM versions of their skins?

If so, then I would have to politely disagree. 

As you stated in your post, we are in "period of change." At this point in time, I would argue BOM is just an alternate way of applying textures to Mesh Bodies; just another tool in our bag of tricks.

Perhaps in a year or so, when BOM has become more ubiquitous, I will probably agree.

NOT FOUND is a great store that has been killing it lately with its wide variety of male skins. It deserves to be recommended, regardless of its BOM status.

I apologize for coming out like negative to Not Found. That was not my intention, to recommend only BoM skins. @Sire Sands has returned to a Second Line where avatar customization is very different from the Second Life he left. Mesh heads and bodies have made our avatars look more realistic, but it is also more time-consuming. It isn't cheap either.

For me, it sounds like he want the maximum of customization, and then a combination of BoM and applier slots is very flexible. I am very happy to see Not Found starting to offer BoM. The quality is non disputable. But an applier skin is still an applier skin, regardless of the beauty. I wanted to emphasize how it works. 

I can sound a bit overenthusiastic about BoM sometimes. I did not know how much I missed to open the inventory and click add. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Side question - is the Bellezza Jake body ever going to get full BoM support (I think it may have one of those stupid relay things right now)? I use the Signature Gianni which has full BoM but also have the Jake and use it occasionally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In case it was not mentioned already: I use a Lightstar head for my Jake. It is decent enough for what it is and for the price. I just cannot justify (let along really afford) to drop as much on a head as I would my parcel rent. Sure, I have Daniel wish listed but that's likely to remain on there for a while.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a Lelutka (and Jake) user myself, I would recommend it over Catwa. Catwa's male heads all looked pretty much the same.  My biggest complaint with them was the eyes. They're always squinty and in on shape, and I found early impossible to change more than a little bit. And honestly when I see a Catwa head on a guy it looks the same 90% of the time no matter what. And not to hate on Catwa users but when I joined the group asking questions in preparations to try to buy the perfect Catwa head, they made me feel like an idiot and wanted me to change myself so that it would work on their heads. The Lelutka group, however, has always been very welcoming and nice.

Catwa, I believe, has a bit more options customization wise with tints and stuff. But since I use BoM I've never really had to use them. Lelutka has less, but if you're not interested in changing the tint of your lips and face to a T then it's kind of not worth it IMO.

 

my biggest issue, and this happened with Catwa too, though, is the neck seam. Because I use BoM it's a little off.

As most have said, there are technically more heads for Catwa rn than Lelutka, but there's a new one in the works (despite the release date being unknown)

Try to do what's right for you, though, and remember that only Bento heads will reflect body/head shape changes. I went through several heads before I settled on Andrea and haven't looked back to Catwa since. I actually just bought a second Lelutka head.

Either way they're the same price so you won't be paying one more than the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...