New Annoyances

[Prokofy Neva]

On 2/10/2020 at 12:44 AM, Wulfie Reanimator said:

You don't click on the map... Watch the video clip again. You click on the red arrow itself.

 <-- That one. Just left-click it. You won't even need to open the minimap.

Look at my screenshots above. Note that there is no red arrow. Perhaps you are using Firestorm. Or some other factor.

[Alyona Su]

30 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Look at my screenshots above. Note that there is no red arrow. Perhaps you are using Firestorm. Or some other factor.

Your screenshots are also all cropped.

Take a snapshot that shows a Beacon in it. Then we'll see if your screen shows an arrow or not. (Rhetorical, I couldn't care less about it, just making a point about it.)

Edited February 11, 2020 by Alyona Su

[Solar Legion]

As if the norm .... the fact that Wulfie made each of those screen shots and GIFs using the stock, Linden Viewer was utterly ignored.

The behavior being described by Prok is not normal behavior and thus far has only been reported/questioned by Prok.

Further the effects being described and attributed to Advanced Lighting .... are not the norm either.

But hey - anyone who dares to point any of this out is automatically wrong (among other things), just like anyone who dares to disagree on even the tiniest opinion that one makes.

ETA: Also Prok doesn't seem to have been paying attention to their own images as this one below clearly shows the exact arrow Wulfie mentioned:

So either Prok is missing/not seeing it ... or being contrary just to be contrary. There is the rather distant possibility that something is indeed preventing the rather normal function from being utilized .... but rather doubtful.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Solar Legion

[Prokofy Neva]

13 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

As if the norm .... the fact that Wulfie made each of those screen shots and GIFs using the stock, Linden Viewer was utterly ignored.

The behavior being described by Prok is not normal behavior and thus far has only been reported/questioned by Prok.

Further the effects being described and attributed to Advanced Lighting .... are not the norm either.

But hey - anyone who dares to point any of this out is automatically wrong (among other things), just like anyone who dares to disagree on even the tiniest opinion that one makes.

ETA: Also Prok doesn't seem to have been paying attention to their own images as this one below clearly shows the exact arrow Wulfie mentioned:

So either Prok is missing/not seeing it ... or being contrary just to be contrary. There is the rather distant possibility that something is indeed preventing the rather normal function from being utilized .... but rather doubtful.

Nope, I didn't ignore it, but what he is showing is completely different than what I see -- there is NO LARGE RED ARROW LIKE THIS.

So I thought perhaps he inadvertently was on another viewer.

The small red arrow that you can see by the beam in this photo DOES NOT WORK. You can't click on thin air. Believe me, I've tried.

 

[Solar Legion]

Except that - barring some code change that is undocumented - it has always worked the way that has been described to you.

Now while that is possible, unless someone else comes forward to confirm what you're experiencing ... it's just you.

That's coming forward here, in the forum.

And please don't take my response badly ... Honestly despite differences, I am genuinely curious as to what could be going on and if I could offer more than documentation and observed behavior ... I would.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Solar Legion

[Anna Salyx]

On 2/10/2020 at 12:21 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

Next up, the way everything in the object is lit up, not just the outlines:

Note that on the menu, I have checked only "Show Selection OUTLINE"

Then I go into edit mode -- what do I get? Not an "outline" but a bath full of highlighted vertices.

 

 

 

On 2/10/2020 at 2:37 AM, Matty Luminos said:

This isn't due to the viewer, it's due to the object being mesh. The outlining feature does exactly the same thing it does on a prim object; it outlines each face/triangle. It's just that a mesh object has so many more of them. You'd get the same effect if you had a prim object that was made up of 4,000 prims (if anyone had the land capacity to rez such a thing). 

re: bottom picture - I had the is same problem when I was using AMD video cards.  It's one reason I moved to nvidia since I edit/build thing *a lot*. Nvidia doesn't do this, or it does it more intelligently, and you get a proper outline of the object and not every single vertice.  It's a driver issue more than a viewer issue (or rather the implementation of openGL if I recall someone telling me when I complained about it.)  Now granted it was some 2 years ago maybe that i made that switch and some of the tech might have changed, but I'm placing even odds that you are on AMD and that is main cause for this.   I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.   (And the parcel border leakage during edits too -- the memory is fading but I seem to recall that being an issue, too, until I switch graphics chips) . 

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, Anna Salyx said:

 

re: bottom picture - I had the is same problem when I was using AMD video cards.  It's one reason I moved to nvidia since I edit/build thing *a lot*. Nvidia doesn't do this, or it does it more intelligently, and you get a proper outline of the object and not every single vertice.  It's a driver issue more than a viewer issue (or rather the implementation of openGL if I recall someone telling me when I complained about it.)  Now granted it was some 2 years ago maybe that i made that switch and some of the tech might have changed, but I'm placing even odds that you are on AMD and that is main cause for this.   I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.   (And the parcel border leakage during edits too -- the memory is fading but I seem to recall that being an issue, too, until I switch graphics chips) . 

Oh, thank you. This is exactly the sort of response I look for when I post in the forums, even though I will have to bat away all sorts of nonsense and bad actors and people of bad faith. This might well be the issue. I have a GeForce card, not AMD, and the driver is up to date, but maybe there's something to it.

As I noted, turning off Advanced Lighting got rid of that "extra highlighting" stuff in edit. But the whole point of getting the more expensive graphics card was to be able to see this Advanced Lighting stuff. oh, well.

[Prokofy Neva]

So a new patch has just been pushed, aptly called  Ёрш  ("a Russian mixed drink consisting of beer thoroughly mixed with an ample quantity of vodka.)

What's funny is that while People Search is now working again (I tested on a variety of names), that isn't mentioned as a fix. And the Grid Status page never had this outage as an issue, although it was more than 24 hours. Odd, that. How many things like that disappear into the memory hole? It was never put on the JIRA, as neither Lindens nor their geek fan base really find it a necessity to have to look up people inworld (like customers who paid you) in search.

Perhaps there is an oblique reference to these events in the reference to Tale of Woe and Misfortune, a 17th century Russian poem that might be applied to any century:

He begins to live wisely and acquires even greater wealth than before. At a feast he has organized himself, he begins to boast about his success. Woe (a personification-"spirit") overhears him and threatens the youth not to boast anymore, appears in two of the youth's dreams, and convinces him to spend all his money on drink. Ending up yet again with nothing, he is again ashamed and moves on to the next town.

He comes across a river, and despite Woe's taunting, manages by virtue of a song he sings to have the ferrymen take him across. When the youth decides to return home, Woe gets in his way. The youth then transforms into several different life forms and ends up being able to protect himself from Woe only by entering a monastery, which he does, leaving Woe at the holy gates.

Interestingly, it looks like the reason I couldn't get the workaround for the People Search to work (a script sending IMs using the avatar key) is this:

BUG-227763 Preferences -> Chat -> Object IMs doesn't react to an instant message from an object.

Best of all, this daily annoyance -- which some didn't think was a thing and didn't think was important (because they don't sell gatchas) -- was fixed, hooray!

• SL-12121 Unable to delete folders from 'Marketplace listings'

Give those Lindens a gift card AND a long lunch, I say!

[Prokofy Neva]

On 2/10/2020 at 5:07 AM, Theresa Tennyson said:

Or you can just walk through the beacon and it will automatically cancel it.

Orrrrrr you can click on the button on the World Map that has the 3/4 circle with the arrowhead.

In fact, I'm trying to figure out how you're getting beacons at all without opening the World Map to place them, as you can't place them with the Mini Map.

And yes, clicking on the red arrow also cancels them. For me, at least.

Walking through the beacons most certainly DOES NOT WORK. I remember years ago it did. It doesn't now.

Clicking on the World Map DOES NOT WORK.

You get beacons by...um....TPing to a place from the World Map. It gives you a beacon when you arrive.

Clicking on the Mini Map DOES NOT WORK.

Clicking on the arrow DOES NOT WORK.

Only "stop track" works, and only for that log-in session.

Oz Linden made a remark to me that my troubles, which he glanced at in this thread, were caused by packets not reaching the viewer. Yes, I'm aware of the packet loss issue. Verizon has had this issue. I've had long convos over the years with snarky Verizon people who swear it isn't on their side.

But more to the point, the performance bars are all green, the packet loss is not showing any large percent, there's nothing to indicate packet loss.

So yes, if you're on wireless Internet, sure, it can be spotty. But...it wasn't two weeks ago or two months ago. It's really bad NOW.

Oz also mentioned your AV and security settings. Sure, I'm aware they can fight SL. But you make SL an exception. Windows Defender is turned off with AVG. There isn't anything to indicate AVG is blocking SL and wasn't in the past.

So what changed?

Their software. Their software. Their software.

I imagine a patch or three from now, the problem of the forced log-ins to view profiles (apparently that's a packet or connection issue or security issue, too), and perhaps even the beam and who knows what else will go away. 

And perhaps it will be fixed and there may be a nice surprise, as there was with "unable to delete from Marketplace inworld," which people scorned as an issue, who said it wasn't an issue for them (they weren't selling gatcha with high turnover and need to constantly delete and replace). Or they hadn't noticed it. Or they thought the Lindens had a good reason for it. What would such a good reason be that slowed down sales from which the Lab gets a percentage??? I can't imagine! Yes, the workaround is you drag to inventory. But for that, you have to have not "recent" but regular inventory right, and you have to first drag and delete THEN search for the copy to replace it. SO glad this is fixed in Yorsh!

[Theresa Tennyson]

8 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Walking through the beacons most certainly DOES NOT WORK. I remember years ago it did. It doesn't now.

Clicking on the World Map DOES NOT WORK.

You get beacons by...um....TPing to a place from the World Map. It gives you a beacon when you arrive.

Clicking on the Mini Map DOES NOT WORK.

Clicking on the arrow DOES NOT WORK.

Only "stop track" works, and only for that log-in session.

It's interesting that you didn't say, "Clicking on the World Map button with the 3/4 circle and arrowhead doesn't work." Probably because it does.

And you can set a beacon by clicking on the world map (which is what I said.) What you're seeing is what happens when you teleport to a coordinate and the land has a set landing point different from where you clicked.

Walking through the beacon works when the you're close to the "Z" coordinate of the beacon (i.e. where the beacon changes from blue to red) but not when you aren't. When you set a beacon by clicking on the map you'll create the "Z" coordinate based on the altitude you were at when you clicked the map, so walking through the beacon will or won't work depending on whether the altitudes match.

[Solar Legion]

No one else has come forward to state that they are seeing this behavior - no one. it is only affecting you, thus it is not the Second Life software.

You have already been shown by another forum poster that the behavior we have described to you as normal is - in fact - normal. Said poster even made a point to download and use the linden Lab provided viewer to do so. You brushed it off - as you always do.

Seriously, quit reaching.

[So Whimsy]

I've had it happen lately that no matter how many times I click the red arrow it's not going away like it used to.

[Solar Legion]

41 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:

I've had it happen lately that no matter how many times I click the red arrow it's not going away like it used to.

Thank you for coming forward on that.

What I'd like to know - now that someone else has come forward - is what the exact criteria are that could cause such behavior.

[So Whimsy]

28 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Thank you for coming forward on that.

What I'd like to know - now that someone else has come forward - is what the exact criteria are that could cause such behavior.

All I can tell you is that it happens when I tp around a lot during a hunt or whathaveyou.

[Solar Legion]

9 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:

All I can tell you is that it happens when I tp around a lot during a hunt or whathaveyou.

Sadly something like that is likely to have several potential or interlinked causes. One thing for certain however is that even if the viewer was directly involved with that particular issue, it would not be the root cause either.

Frustratingly irksome for those that try to help. More so for those that work on the code itself.

Now the part the OP will likely not like/endorse: Anyone reading this thread, if you're seeing the issue concerning the Map Beacons ... Which viewer do you use?

Edited February 15, 2020 by Solar Legion

[So Whimsy]

1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

Sadly something like that is likely to have several potential or interlinked causes. One thing for certain however is that even if the viewer was directly involved with that particular issue, it would not be the root cause either.

Frustratingly irksome for those that try to help. More so for those that work on the code itself.

Now the part the OP will likely not like/endorse: Anyone reading this thread, if you're seeing the issue concerning the Map Beacons ... Which viewer do you use?

I'm sorry I cannot be of more help. I'm using the latest version of Firestorm.

[Solar Legion]

6 minutes ago, Syn Anatine said:

I'm sorry I cannot be of more help. I'm using the latest version of Firestorm.

Not a worry. That does point to part of it being in the code base itself, among other things.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 2/15/2020 at 6:57 AM, Theresa Tennyson said:

It's interesting that you didn't say, "Clicking on the World Map button with the 3/4 circle and arrowhead doesn't work." Probably because it does.

And you can set a beacon by clicking on the world map (which is what I said.) What you're seeing is what happens when you teleport to a coordinate and the land has a set landing point different from where you clicked.

Walking through the beacon works when the you're close to the "Z" coordinate of the beacon (i.e. where the beacon changes from blue to red) but not when you aren't. When you set a beacon by clicking on the map you'll create the "Z" coordinate based on the altitude you were at when you clicked the map, so walking through the beacon will or won't work depending on whether the altitudes match.

Since most land has a different landing point set than the point on the map I pinpointed (hence the beacon), then most of the time you CANNOT walk through the beacon or click on anything to get rid of it.

And no, clicking on the world map button etc doesn't work.

 

[Jaylinbridges]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

And no, clicking on the world map button etc doesn't work.

This is how you activate the beam:  Open the Big world map.  LEFT CLICK ONCE on a location on a region.  A red circle appears on the big map where you pointed and clicked with your mouse.  The beacon appears, and if it is within the range and you are looking at it with your camera, you should see the beam which is red on the top half, and blue on the bottom half.  At the center of the beam is the red arrow. Exactly like your own photo above shows including the arrow.  You do NOT have to TP to a location to see or create the beam.  If you do not activate and see the beam using the big map, you have a problem with your own setup.  It has nothing to do with LL software.  It has worked this way on all viewers for years.

Why clicking the arrow does not clear it is another issue.  But not being able to even establish the beam with the map  is something no one else in LL has reported!

And on Firestorm at least, if you open the Legend section you can also clear the beacon by clicking "Clear" button.  Forget the mini map, you can't activate the beacon with the mini map.

I assume you have not disabled left click on your mouse.   You click on the arrowhead part of the arrow with the tip of your mouse pointer to clear;  If you click on the shaft part of the arrow, the beacon does not clear.  You need to click ON the arrowhead, not near it, not on the shaft.  I assume after this many years in SL you understand mouse use

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17, 2020 by Jaylinbridges

[Coby Foden]

12 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

And on Firestorm at least, if you open the Legend section you can also clear the beacon by clicking "Clear" button.  Forget the mini map, you can't activate the beacon with the mini map.

You click on the arrowhead part of the arrow with the tip of your mouse pointer to clear;  If you click on the shaft part of the arrow, the beacon does not clear.  You need to click ON the arrowhead, not near it, not on the shaft.

@Prokofy Neva

Linden Lab viewer's world map has the the clear button too. I just tested it, and it does work as intended, it will clear the tracking beacon.

Prok, another way to clear the tracking beacon without going to the world map is: you need to click exactly on the arrow HEAD, not the saft, not somewhere near the arrow, but exactly on the arrow head. It DOES work. It always has worked, and works even now. If it does not work for you, then you have some serious problem on YOUR system.

[MoiraKathleen]

Just to add on to @Coby Foden's instructions, I have sometimes found that it is difficult to click on the arrow head when it is close to the edge of the screen.  So if it doesn't work the first time and the arrow is close to the edge, I move my camera position so that the arrow is more in the mid-area of the screen and then I'm able to click on it and have it disappear as expected.  (This is probably just a problem just with me not being able to click exactly enough when the arrow is close to the edge, but thought I'd mention it - and how I handle it - just in case others had had similar experiences.)

[Solar Legion]

Countdown to "that's not how it works and you're lying about it working that way by default" rant commences ....

[Lyssa Greymoon]

The one issue I have noticed is if I have single click set to walk to point in move & view prefs, sometimes clicking the arrow starts walking instead of clearing the beacon. Stopping and clicking again clears it like it's supposed to.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Lyssa Greymoon

[Jaylinbridges]

8 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

The one issue I have noticed is if I have single click set to walk to point in move & view prefs, sometimes clicking the arrow starts walking instead of clearing the beacon. Stopping and clicking again clears it like it's supposed to.

If it is sometimes, you are probably just missing the tiny area you need to click on, on the arrowhead.  Like the OP probably is, except she is better at it. 😊

Edited February 18, 2020 by Jaylinbridges

[Prokofy Neva]

18 hours ago, Coby Foden said:

@Prokofy Neva

Linden Lab viewer's world map has the the clear button too. I just tested it, and it does work as intended, it will clear the tracking beacon.

Prok, another way to clear the tracking beacon without going to the world map is: you need to click exactly on the arrow HEAD, not the saft, not somewhere near the arrow, but exactly on the arrow head. It DOES work. It always has worked, and works even now. If it does not work for you, then you have some serious problem on YOUR system.

Yeah, I know about the fat arrow and clicking exactly on the arrow head. It doesn't work, more's the pity.

Yes, that's great that the map itself has a "clear tracking lines and re-set" map button. Except, that text you're showing is not visible on the map "as is".

See?

You have to "just know" that IF you hover over it and look there, THEN you will see "Clear tracking lines and re-set map" in quite faint type -- see how faint it is?

So you have two obstacles here -- one, you can't "just know" it is there by looking -- it's not visible. Why would you refresh the map when you just pulled it up and clicked it to go somewhere? You'd have no reason to refresh the map. Yes, that sort of arrow with a turn-up is a universal symbol of "refresh page" -- but I ask you, who needs to refresh a page they just pulled up a second ago?!

So sorry, that just doesn't cut it. It's great it's there and now I've learned about -- but how was I supposed to learn about it before? It's not visible unless you click it. I have no reason to click it. If I *did* click it in some fit of needing to refresh the map, the typeface is very faint.

Please tell me how I could learn about that text hidden under that arrow. Truly, there isn't any way. You don't endlessly read tips on the user interface -- you might read patch notes (I always do), but who knows when this text appeared and where in the notes it was buried?

Try to understand that this little trick you discovered, as great as it is, is basically non-existent because you can't see it, or know about it, and it is poorly visible when you *do* click on it. And there's this: it's primary purpose is to REFRESH THE MAP, not remove the beacon, and it even says that first. Why would you need a map refreshed? Well, if you thought some new land might be going on sale? I don't know what other reason. The map updates not even every 24 hours if you're ever noticed. Land can show for sale even 2 days after it was sold. A big circular build on your land won't show the next day but a few days later. So what is this REFRESH THE MAP of which you speak?! What is the use case for going to a sim and clicking on "refresh" and learning "Oh, wow, I can get rid of the beam now."

When people find tricks like this on the viewer -- things like putting transparency at 2% to get rid of those white lines that persist even in the most meticulously made cut-out in Photoshop -- it's no good saying they're stupid if they didn't know it. How can you "just know", again, please?

BTW, just now, as I open up the map, click to go to a pinpoint on a sim, and go there -- a function that usually produces a beacon -- now I see No beacons and get "none" on the World Map. Oh, well. I'm sure it will be back any minute. I tried 10 times -- no beacon.