The Maitreya v5 Hype(?) Thread

[LittleMe Jewell]

6 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

So for all of you folks that know much more about mesh and lag than I do, answer something for me:  Even if I alpha the feet, is it the same avatar render load as if I detached the feet?  I know that removing the feet reduces the "reported" complexity, but I don't know how that versus alpha truly affects things - because we all know that "reported" complexity is not accurate.

Any time I want the entire foot not showing -- like with some old non-rigged boots I have - I simply detach them rather than using the alpha via the HUD.  That just always seemed to make more sense. Ditto with some old mesh gloves that don't fit the Maitreya hand properly.

Edited January 30, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

BUT if we don't want to UPDATE, does that mean that we will get the constant NAG and redelivery that has been so prevalent in the past?

 

Marianne says the old 4.1 HUD doesn't have an update thing in it - so hopefully that means no 'phone home' script at all to check and nag us with.

[Raevyn Addams]

I didn't even know this was a thing so couldn't get hyped about it, though just reading this and scanning the links provided on their blog/site I'm less hyped as I am... cautiously optimistic.

I don't use BOM, I don't really go into the verts or polys (yes, I know I should and for most other objects in world I do but for bodies I sincerely I don't), I don't care about the rest of the bells and whistles really - though no doubt improvements are good to have. My only real interest with this is if there is an improvement to shape. Specifically speaking; the hips.

Speaking as a former Maitreya wearer for years (until very recently) the one thing that pushed me away from Maitreya was the pointy hips - trying to create anything like an overweight body meant the hip bones stuck out in sharp angles like sore thumbs. I hated it so much that I abandoned ship at Christmas and went back to Belleza. I might be tempted to go back to Maitreya if this has been addressed.

Yes, I make my own shapes and never wear just-out-of-the-box shapes so I know about sliders naturally, and I'm not even talking extreme shapes with massive thigh gaps or butts that could hold a saddle. But I can't do rake- thin, skinny avatars, and won't. There's enough of those in SL as it is and the extreme look of very fat or very skinny has never appealed to me anyway. But if I can't give Rae some decent curves without looking like Frankenstein's Bride then there's no point getting hyped; it's just the same thing with a few garnishes I didn't need, want or asked for.

For now, judgement is reserved. 😐

[Marianne Little]

If they change the body, like shoulders, hips... then the old clothes will not fit. I very much doubt they do anything with the shape and rigging.

[Marianne Little]

It's been such a long time since I got an update, I don't remember of we got one when we logged in. But as I said, it is a HUD in the group notices, to use so we don't have to wait to get in a full sim.

Based upon that, I thought an update is something we must do, I can be wrong, but isn't that what it means? If the body was sent everyone who logs in, why the need for a HUD, and why should people rush to the store to get a redelivery from a terminal?

Slink has a body bundle with hands and feet attached to the body now. Maybe that is what the majority wants. Perhaps Maitreya could have the detachable hands and feet as an option. 

[missyrideout]

1 minute ago, Marianne Little said:

Based upon that, I thought an update is something we must do, I can be wrong, but isn't that what it means?

The company they used for auto-updates has gone out of business. This was stated by moderators in the Lara Friends group.  So, if they didn't put out this update HUD Maitreya Isle would probably be full for weeks. 

And based on that it sounds like people who don't want to update will be able to carry on without interruption. 

[Chic Aeon]

8 minutes ago, missyrideout said:

The company they used for auto-updates has gone out of business. This was stated by moderators in the Lara Friends group.  So, if they didn't put out this update HUD Maitreya Isle would probably be full for weeks. 

And based on that it sounds like people who don't want to update will be able to carry on without interruption. 

 

So in essence having Lara updated (there are a few nice features but those "may" be balanced on the downsize with the non-removable feet thing) doesn't "insure" that folks will bop on over to BOM.    I am not in the camp so far. My complexity (well the settings) is always pretty low as I am not a RP fantasy type person and like "plain" rather than lots of extras so I will wait and see. If I start needing it for blogging, that will be something I could set up like my manChic and just use the body for those occasions. 

 

I was never really sold on BOM from the beginning though so I may be the exception. Honestly I don't have the BOM viewer and I don't see a ton of odd looking folks out. I usually derender people the minute I get to a busy sim so I don't see them anyway LOL.    Mostly I am out by myself taking photos or building.  

 

  

Edited January 31, 2020 by Chic Aeon
spelling

[missyrideout]

I honestly think the focus on complexity here (the forums) gives us a skewed impression of what the average resident cares about. Lots of people were aksing for one piece body so they can have more attachment points! More stuff , more complexity, more triangles, more more more !!!

[karynmaria]

14 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

...................I was never really sold on BOM from the beginning though so I may be the exception. Honestly I don't have the BOM viewer and I don't see a ton of odd looking folks out. I usually derender people the minute I get to a busy sim so I don't see them anyway LOL.    Mostly I am out by myself taking photos or building.  

 

  

I haven't even looked at BOM yet.  I don't really feel a need for it at this point.  I don't wear any extra makeup and I don't have any old skins or system clothing that I want to wear.

[steeljane42]

59 minutes ago, missyrideout said:

And based on that it sounds like people who don't want to update will be able to carry on without interruption. 

Imo, it's for the best. I also remember having to block their (and some others') updaters for a bit, while I was manually updating my outfits/saved copies. Like.. I don't want a new box on every outfit swap. And yes, I usually keep quite a few copies of the bodies, because I can't be bothered to re-apply skins/appliers, it's easier to just save an outfit with different "ready to use" body.

---

As for the rest. Can't say I'm too hyped, mostly because v4.1 already does everything I want, but seems like it's going to be a good and solid update, so I'm happy. And yeah, alpha cuts are here to stay, which was already known, though. Guess it'll be only slink (and maybe some other, almost never used/seen bodies) that went with "old school alphas" way, pretty sure Belleza also not going to get rid of their alpha cuts whenever they'll release an update.

51 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

I was never really sold on BOM from the beginning though so I may be the exception. Honestly I don't have the BOM viewer and I don't see a ton of odd looking folks out. I usually derender people the minute I get to a busy sim so I don't see them anyway LOL.    Mostly I am out by myself taking photos or building.  

Yep, I did use non BoM FS for the most part (with rare exceptions) until release of new Lelutka heads, which can be used without BoM too, but I figured I might as well upgrade, sooner or later the fabled EEP going to be released, which means updating anyway. And even in busy regions I saw maybe 1-2 people with BoM stuff, often no one at all. Pretty much all existing/modern bodies and bento heads can use it, but the question is... why? System clothing looks awful on the skin layer, despite what some people want to believe, they are painted and flat. So only good for tattoos pretty much, to avoid alpha glitching with long hair or some clothes that use alpha blended parts.

42 minutes ago, missyrideout said:

I honestly think the focus on complexity here (the forums) gives us a skewed impression of what the average resident cares about. Lots of people were aksing for one piece body so they can have more attachment points! More stuff , more complexity, more triangles, more more more !!!

Pretty much this. I don't socialize all that much, but when I do and there's some talk about avatar appearance/bodies/heads/etc, it's always about looking better. Not sure I can remember meeting at least one person who gave a damn about complexity, even when they fully understand how it works. Attachment point limit thing is pretty valid, though. I did manage to hit it a few times while making some sci-fi based looks, there's a lot of small things to add, which are not even heavy, but each takes 1 attachment point. if they are mod and rigged, then can be linked to save an attachment point, but if either not rigged or no mod, then not much can be done.

 

P. S.

Still wonder why Maitreya never released other body, to compete with freya and hourglass. Not that I'm after those kind of look myself, I like my slim shape, so Lara or Belleza Venus (if it would be supported) are perfect for me, but seems like a wasted opportunity considering the market.

Edited January 31, 2020 by steeljane42

[Fauve Aeon]

10 hours ago, Sukubia Scarmon said:

With the new V5 applier scripts you can now also make appliers just for materials. Bakes on Mesh wearables lack the ability of materials, but by creating materials appliers for the body, those can be used in combination with BoM.

HYPED!

[Nagafusa Takeda]

What puts me off using my lara body more is the shape of it, so unless that drasticly changes (and i'm 99% sure it won't.) I won't be using it. I would like to see some of the more pointy parts of the mesh rounded and smoothed a bit. I see its trademark triangle thighs and go "Yup, that person is using mait."

 

I guess peeling off the onion layers is an okay feature, but the existence of onion layers was never my issue with them.

[Chic Aeon]

2 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

sooner or later the fabled EEP going to be released, which means updating anyway.

Personally I am hoping it never happens. The "idea" was maybe a good one but I think MOST folks that have tried it hate it.  I gave up reading the EEP thread as it was just too darn depressing.   Maybe forgetting all the "new and wondrous" ideas and just keeping the grid running smoothly would be the best plan :D. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

And yeah, alpha cuts are here to stay, which was already known, though. Guess it'll be only slink (and maybe some other, almost never used/seen bodies) that went with "old school alphas" way, pretty sure Belleza also not going to get rid of their alpha cuts whenever they'll release an update.

So, does retaining alpha cuts mean also retaining at least one "onion layer"? If so, that at least partially defeats the point of BOM, which was to reduce complexity.

Alpha cuts are, I suppose, convenient . . . but the advantage of alpha layers is that they are restricted to preset cuts and shapes. Older mesh clothing and, I would hope, the newer stuff that merchants will start releasing as BOM becomes more general, includes or should include customized alpha layers that will do a better job of hiding body parts. The Slink Redux bodies also include a whole toolkit of alpha layers that essentially correspond, I think, to the older cuts -- and really aren't any more difficult to use. And one can always, and without vast difficulties, produce one's own alpha layers.

I have mesh clothes right now that I essentially can't wear on their own because the existing alpha cuts don't quite do a good enough job of hiding the requisite bits of my body. Alpha layers at least have the potential of allowing me to work around that limitation.

(I can't believe I'm defending BOM, actually -- aspects of the switchover are as annoying as hell. Still, it does seem to me to have some advantages?)

[missyrideout]

23 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, does retaining alpha cuts mean also retaining at least one "onion layer"? If so, that at least partially defeats the point of BOM, which was to reduce complexity.

So, yes, looks like at this point Slink Redux will be the only philosophically pure BOM body. But v5 of Lara appears to do a decent job of meeting halfway while continuing to provide functionality (alpha cuts) MANY of its users will want for some time. Removing 3 layers (tattoo, underwear, and clothing) and making them separate and detachable is not a bad compromise. Better than what I expected. Documented here: https://sl-maitreya.blogspot.com/p/layers-page.html

Edited January 31, 2020 by missyrideout

[Marianne Little]

I think that because of the new body with hands and feet attached, people will upgrade. I think this is what the majority want. They want to alpha out the feet or hands instead. This is fast done from the HUD, and render cost? As already said, by others, it does not matter so much for them, It is 3 new attachment points more, that is good.

I bet there has been questions about why Maitreya can't have all the feet other bodies have, and why they can't control them as Slink does.

I think this will lower the number that actually uses Maitreya body with Slink feet. Personally, I am not into the fine details where people compare Maitreyas hips and hands and other parts - to the rest of the bodies. I don't know how many that's using Slink/Maitreya combinations. Is it as many as some think?

I do not look that close on a mesh body. Those who do, has already got another body. I do agree that Maitreya could have more bodies to choose from. Mote curvy, more smooth ones. Eve has 4 now.

EVE slim
EVE Pulpy
EVEboy
EVE Cristal

The Maitreya brand name is strong, I am sure it would be new content for other Maitreya bodies as fast as it was for Legacy.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Marianne Little

[Mollymews]

39 minutes ago, missyrideout said:

 Removing 3 layers (tattoo, underwear, and clothing) and making them separate and detachable is not a bad compromise. Better than what I expected. Documented here: https://sl-maitreya.blogspot.com/p/layers-page.html

this gets me hyped. I like

[Marianne Little]

25 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

this gets me hyped. I like

I am going to get it as soon as it is possible, and use it. It is a good compromise, I think Slink Redux is going to be too strict for most people. I have it on one alt, but could not have it for Marianne. Marianne has both Slink Physique and the first Belleza, I do not bother to get updates for them any more.

Happy to see the new feet options. I can't remember the last time I used Slink hands or feet with the Maitreya body. So it is a win for me, in all ways.

[Tarani Tempest]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, does retaining alpha cuts mean also retaining at least one "onion layer"? If so, that at least partially defeats the point of BOM, which was to reduce complexity.

Alpha cuts are, I suppose, convenient . . . but the advantage of alpha layers is that they are restricted to preset cuts and shapes. Older mesh clothing and, I would hope, the newer stuff that merchants will start releasing as BOM becomes more general, includes or should include customized alpha layers that will do a better job of hiding body parts. The Slink Redux bodies also include a whole toolkit of alpha layers that essentially correspond, I think, to the older cuts -- and really aren't any more difficult to use. And one can always, and without vast difficulties, produce one's own alpha layers.

I have mesh clothes right now that I essentially can't wear on their own because the existing alpha cuts don't quite do a good enough job of hiding the requisite bits of my body. Alpha layers at least have the potential of allowing me to work around that limitation.

(I can't believe I'm defending BOM, actually -- aspects of the switchover are as annoying as hell. Still, it does seem to me to have some advantages?)

All 3 layers: tattoo, underwear, and clothing are optional.  With or without them, you can use the HUD driven alpha cuts.  You can also choose to use system alpha layers as well or instead of.   The choice will be yours.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Tarani Tempest
fixing dumb stuff :P

[Mother Mystic]

Butt and belly physics, skin bumps, slimmer more realistic hands would make me go back to it. Buuut it's not gonna happen so ^^ 

oh, also, better looking navel and lady bits. lol 

Edited January 31, 2020 by ErukaVonD

[Anna Nova]

15 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

This. The Tonic has had this for a couple years and it requires a script in the shoes, just as auto-hide alpha cuts require a script in the mesh clothing. The only work around is to put the script into a prim that you also wear with the item, perhaps transparent and hidden at avatar center.

That's how I have been doing autohide for mesh clothes since it was released.  I prefer my own autohides (and will probably prefer my own alphas) as the creator's are usually far far too fierce.  I keep trying to convince creators not to cut the tops of my legs off at the hem line - it's just there because they cant do skirt rigging properly.

[Anna Nova]

5 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Personally I am hoping it never happens. The "idea" was maybe a good one but I think MOST folks that have tried it hate it.  I gave up reading the EEP thread as it was just too darn depressing.   Maybe forgetting all the "new and wondrous" ideas and just keeping the grid running smoothly would be the best plan :D. 

Be nice if they could get grid crossing working reliably again.  Much higher priority for me than all the Barbie-doll stuff.

Edited January 31, 2020 by anna2358

[Orwar]

   As far as BOM goes, I personally don't hype about being able to wear ancient system clothing - but one of the things that I always was bothered about with Orwar was that I had to choose either body hair or tattoos - with BOM I can have a tattoo without looking like a manscaped muscle-baby. It also makes the makeup game a whole new one; the one thing I missed most about Catwa after going Genus, was the ability to blend two layers - now you can essentially have as many as you want.

   Another two things that I got really happy about with Neph in regards to BOM was that now she too has some body hair, and since she's been working out so hard in her gym HUD game, I got her a muscle definition tattoo. Some skin brands did/do offer toned and curvy variants of their skins, but this will work on any skin I want. I was pretty reserved about BOM for a long while, but as soon as I started playing around with it I was really pleasantly surprised.

   When it comes to avatar complexity though, yes; alpha'd mesh still adds 'weight' to your avatar, hence the hype about being able to opt out of wearing the three body-duplicate layers (tattoo/underwear/clothes). The hands and feet being attached to the body is something I'd consider positive, in general - yes, it does mean they'll still add that weight even if you're wearing boots or gloves, but fewer attachments, fewer scripts (presumably), and overall less time spent scrolling around my inventory when picking out an outfit.

   Whether the forum community is more conscious of avatar complexity than the SL community at large, meh - fact is, if you're pushing past 350k complexity, you're going to be a jellydoll by default for most people. It seems a bit contradictory if you're gussied up to go clubbing and put all your prettiest-looking pieces of jewelry and clothing on, if they end up making it so that no one can see you. Sure, if you want to dress up for your own pleasure, knock yourself out - but I ain't taking the strain of even a 150k person lagging down my experience, and yes, how I interact with people depends on how I perceive them; if an avatar looks like a potato then I don't expect any of our SL interests to overlap, and I certainly wouldn't be interested in flirting with them - if it's a jellydoll with an insane complexity then I'll just assume you're a completely ignorant moron, and the same will apply. 
   And yes, I know the complexity system is far from perfect (chortles), but it's what we've got. If a region is full of jellydolls (which sometimes causes more lag than actually rendering the avatars), then I'm more likely to start completely derendering the red and orange ones before raising my limit. I may well be a minority in doing this, but I just can't rationalize accommodating lag-inducing narcissists; what your complexity is at in a private setting doesn't bother me, but if you're at a shopping event or a club and completely disregard not only your own experience, but that of everyone around you, I'll simply remove you from sight and mind completely.

   /rant

   But yes, no. I highly doubt that Maitreya will do any changes to shape or physics that would risk making the entire inventory and market up until this point completely unusable (that'd be handing the crown to Legacy - and don't get me started on Legacy). There were rumors of a curvy Maitreya in the works, but this has been found to be just rumors - and would it fare any better than say, Signature Geralt or Alice, that most people don't even seem to know exist and hardly any creators rig for?

   I expect that if you dislike the shape of Maitreya in its current state, this update won't change your mind about it. We're probably going to be stuck with the current hierarchy of popularity until the 'NextGen' of bodies arrive though - when and what that'll be, we'll see when we get there.

[Manu Mysterious]

19 hours ago, Orwar said:

   Why are there no threads on this yet?

   Maitreya's version 5 update is coming out 'in a few days', and so far I'm really liking the features they've brought up. Auto-change foot shape to fit shoes as you put them on, wearing tattoo/underwear/clothing layers is now optional, script removal features, save sticks, etc.

   On a scale from 1-whut, how hyped are we?

It's not about the hype at all... I have a problem with all the updates because I have more than one head from different creators. The differences I see between different heads are the huds and facial impressions. I can only speak for myself, I like Lelutka facial impressions the most. The hud is well done, great explanation and excellent customer service. That's what counts for customers right? In regard to GENUS, the facial expressions sucks, but I like the shape of all three heads and a lot of skin creators made the most for GENUS and CATWA. From CATWA I have 8 heads, if you have set up your huds with special makeup addons and anims, it sucks to update and update it again and again. I just grabbed my 8updated 4,5 heads and I'm still not done and honestly, I lost the fun because of the 5.0 update... So if I summarize, 8 heads from CATWA, 3 heads from GENUS, 6 heads from Lelutka.... 17 heads who need to be updated each time something new is coming out...my hype scale is by 1.... And this is not really funny 😝

Edited January 31, 2020 by Gluehwuermchen Tornado

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, anna2358 said:

Be nice if they could get grid crossing working reliably again.  Much higher priority for me than all the Barbie-doll stuff.

"Again"? That would imply that it was reliable once.