How many UK residents will be able to afford SL after Brexit

[Tolya Ugajin]

5 hours ago, LexxiXhan said:

When it comes to exorbitant gases I'm deadly serious.

Ok, maybe not always..

I frequently have exorbitant gas...

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

I frequently have exorbitant gas...

Only when you talk, dear.

[Ceka Cianci]

May i make a suggestion? hehehe

 

[Tari Landar]

I'm still reading the thread, but, wanted to say something...

 

First, some background, though.  I haven't put a rl cent into sl, in a long time. When I have done so, in the past, it's been pretty minimal. Why? Because I don't have what are, to me, the justifications for doing so (and have only done so, when I did..confused yet?). In other words...I ain't got the money to put in the money.  I knew this coming IN to sl, though. So, I made sl work for me...and it was rough, lemme tell ya. My kids were still wee ones (maybe not too wee, but wee enough) so working in rl, AND working in sl, while still being the bestest mommy I could be, homeschooling, going to school myself, and finding time to eat, poop, shower and breathe in that mix ...not easy. But, I knew if I wanted money in sl, I'd have to make the money for sl, in sl. I did it (and it took ages). And then the poop really hit the fan in rl, like, hit the fan, flew into the walls, the ceiling, the white shag carpet, the windows and curtains, the dog, and my hair...ugh. T'was then I realize...fudge....my literal only income, is basically monopoly money. How in the haides am I going to use monopoly money to keep rl tummies full, the rl roof from flying off or caving in, the rl lights in their on position, and whatever other annoying rl expenses are required to live..? Ugh.  So I said "Self", because I do that, "self, we need to figure this poop out", and so me, myself, and I, figured our poop out. All of a sudden (ok, not really all of a sudden, this took more effort than I'm willing to admit I put in) my monopoly money was magically transformed into colored linen with dead dudes' faces all over. It didn't make me a millionaire, but it paid for ALL rl expenses, and sl enjoyments for damn near 4 years, all by itself, despite the fact that even WITH it, I still couldn't afford to own land in Bay city so...pardon my grape  jelly on that one (not really, lovely place, but..eh...I'd rather visit than live, lol).  Anyhoo, long story even longer... I eventually came to a point where monopoly money neither needed to, nor did I want it to bring in dead dude face covered linens, for reasons that matter not an iota to anyone but me. 

 

Now, I fully enjoy my slife, having gone back to not bringing any rl cents, or dead face dude lined linens, into sl. If I want monopoly money here, I make monopoly money here and I spend it here too. I still, very much enjoy my sl, and the...really countless to me..aspects of sl. I do not currently own any land, and haven't for quite a long time. When/if I do, though, I pay for it through that same monopoly money I make here.  I do squat on a friend's land, but that's only because she lets me and I sometimes make it look perty for her(and she doesn't need it, nor want it, for reasons only important to her). I don't need a large spending habit, or any spending habit, in sl. But if I WANT one, I make it happen. I don't ask LL to perty please hand me some, or more, monopoly money just because my rl wallet is feeling malnourished..they'd have to do that for everyone and I'm just not nice enough to make that request (though they HAVE reduced some costs, especially in the area of land ownership, so, I can't commiserate on not being able to afford land in one of the most expensive areas ever in sl...that's just..well, kinda silly, as silly as those land prices in that same area being as high as they are..but that's a personal opinion) It can take some work to truly enjoy sl the way you want to, on a limited budget. but it is absolutely, without a doubt,  100% possible for anyone, and everyone. The literal only thing blocking you like a brick wall, is yourself. 

 

If you don't know how to enjoy sl on a limited budget, don't know where to look for entertainment and nifty things free or cheap, have a desire to learn how to aid sl in working for you to put more monopoly money in your fake sl wallet....reach out to the places and people that can best help you. Honestly, there are loads of places inworld, in the forums, on different blogs and websites that can all offer a helping hand. There are even more individuals, fellow residents, willing to offer a helping hand too. I'm not being snarky when I say this, but, simple searches will find you a LOT, like, way more than people realize lot, of stuff, and ways, and people, and websites, and blogs, and.....Yeah. Look for it, and if you don't know where to look, ask someone, because someone else does know, lots of us do. 

 

I'm not denigrating the budgets of anyone else, regardless of how high, low, or middle ground they might be. I honestly don't judge people for something like that. Your income alone doesn't dictate how much you can enjoy sl. In fact, it doesn't have to dictate it at all, or even play ANY role. I know loads of people who figure out how to make sl work for them so they have some monopoly money every week, OR...they do just peachy without any at all. Those people come in all shapes, sizes, colors, genders, income levels, with varying capabilities and life (rl and sl) circumstances and situations. Few things are as limiting as we think they are at first. Being disabled or on a limited income doesn't HAVE to limit you quite so much in sl, in fact, it can even work in your favor through motivation alone  

 

whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite spaces...wiiiiiiiiider than a miiiiiiiiiile....I'm wriiiiiiiiiing you in style some daaaaaaaaay

You can ignore that last bit, it was in my head and just felt it needed to come out my fingers too

[rasterscan]

Last night I watched them burn paper EU flags in parliament square, as they danced on the remainer tears of sixteen million people and two countries, namely Scotland and Northern Ireland. The lunatics have taked over the asylum here in blighty, and it's an ugly sight.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, rasterscan said:

Last night I watched them burn paper EU flags in parliament square, as they danced on the remainer tears of sixteen million people and two countries, namely Scotland and Northern Ireland. The lunatics have taked over the asylum here in blighty, and it's an ugly sight.

I had many friends, at the time of the referendum, who were card-carrying "progressives" -- pro-immigration, pro-refugee, anti-nationalist, etc. -- but who supported Brexit because they argued (quite correctly) that the EU was an instrument of Neoliberalism and austerity. And so they, like a lot of Labour MPs and supporters, thought leaving was a great idea, because it would allow Britain to chart it's own left-leaning, internationalist course.

And I kept pointing to Nigel Farage, and Johnson and Gove, and UKIP, and so many of the other Brexiters, and saying "Look at the company you're keeping!" I mean, they wanted to leave Europe so that they could pursue nationalism, and isolationism, and sometimes downright racist policies. You can't both be right, I'd say -- which vision is going to win out if Britain leaves, a progressive or a reactionary one?

I think it's pretty clear now which "vision" has won, predictably.

And if Scotland leaves, which would be terribly sad and retrograde, but pretty understandable, what's left of Britain is going to be under the thumb of the reactionaries for at least a generation.

It's terribly, terribly sad. I love Britain, but it's slowly becoming almost unrecognizable.

[rasterscan]

26 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

..   I kept pointing to Nigel Farage, and Johnson and Gove, and UKIP, and so many of the other Brexiters, and saying "Look at the company you're keeping!"

great post. The whole bizarre situation was summed up beautifully in the Irish Post ...

"you kicked against austerity by voting to leave the EU and then became so obsessed with leaving you voted for those who’d dreamed up austerity in the first place."

[Maitimo]

4 hours ago, Tarina Sewell said:

When I drove through California, I was paying 5.00 gal for fuel .... 

I'll just leave this here. https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/United-Kingdom/gasoline_prices/

At today's prices, and with today's exchange rate, ours is US$6.29 per gallon. California is cheap.

[Alwin Alcott]

4 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

 5.00 per gallon is robbery..

 

in USD i guess ..
in the netherlands...  7.56 ...
€ 1.80 a liter (average price .. highway pumps are high, locals lower)
 

[rasterscan]

Back in '93 I bought gas in LA at 94 cents for a gallon. Or approx 4 litres. It was a lovely sunny day too. We went to Ports o' Call on the gas.

Edited February 1, 2020 by rasterscan

[Ceka Cianci]

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

in USD i guess ..
in the netherlands...  7.56 ...
€ 1.80 a liter (average price .. highway pumps are high, locals lower)
 

That's what I was comparing is,state prices with each other.. I'm paying 2.06 where I live.

California's avg is twice that at the moment and not at 5.00.

It's a coastal state. there are offshore oil rigs and shipping..

I'm in the mountains..hehehe

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Ceka Cianci

[Garnet Psaltery]

I was pleased to be leaving the EU just as I was dismayed when we joined.  That does not mean I danced on anyone's tears, nor does it make me a racist.  I should not have to keep saying this.

[Ted McGregor]

Can I, as a EU citizen , worry over the UK distantiating itself before another demagogue on the mainland takes over as soon as the capitalist puppets residing now raise an army ? At least the Americans can vote for those ' ruling in their name'.

No.

Especially not when the world will need to liberate us ( again ) from another dicator, whose seat is being prepared as we speak.

 

I just hope it won' t be in my lifetime.  😐

Edited February 1, 2020 by TDD123

[LyricalBookworm]

I'm disabled and on an extremely tight budget. When I joined SL, I figured out how best to manage my wants here. Premium membership pretty much covered those things because I have my home and a weekly stipend. I've only ever had a linden home and small home on my sister's residential sim. With the creation of Bellisseria, I now live in a place that is filled with waterways to sail on, roads to bike through, etc. I consider myself fortunate. I've even been fortunate enough to be able to have my alt set up as premium too at times. 

This last year when premium fees went up, I had to stop my alt's premium. I wasn't happy about the price hike. I even vented a little, but I understood that nothing in SL is a necessity. I've just always had to be frugal in both worlds. Second Life is my social outlet so it's an incredibly special and important place to me. I don't need much to have a fulfilling existence here.

I couldn't even imagine being able to afford a homestead. I'm not certain the tone is exactly entitled, but perhaps more naive in what one should expect realistically from a business. Perhaps instead of thinking on such a large scale, learn to downsize so you can still have your wants fulfilled here that won't break you financially. 

[iamyourneighbour]

On 1/31/2020 at 1:14 AM, Michaelatv Destiny said:

I'm just getting some feedback from my fellow Brits. In 2016 I had an affordable homestead I could keep under my present retired income. We were getting 1.49$ to one GBP. Our currency crashed big time after stupid decision to leave.

In no time at all it was down to 1.35$, which added £6 a week extra on my tier, which I could not afford. So been waiting 3 years for GBP to recover back to 1.49$ Again. This hasn't happened, and I really losing hope I will ever be able to buy or rent in the near future.

Brexit happens any day now, and there's no doubt in my mind that our GBP Will go into free fall. I conservatively predict the pound will be almost worthless, crashing to about 1.10$ to one GBP. That would push up the price of a homestead to £9 -£10 a week, from pre 2016 levels.

Who ,on fixed incomes or low pay will be able to afford to buy or rent land, especially in Blake's Seas, where I used to own airports and afford half a mainland sim to rent. Do you think it's time for Linden labs to stop using real world currency's floations for what is only a game platform. It makes unfair competition to countries who don't have a huge economy like the USA. So how many are still going to buy or rent, if the pound crashes on 1st February.???? Of course it may go up, but that's most unlikely, seeing the coranavirus is already depressing financial markets. Your thoughts?????

My thought is they should cull the VAT or reduce it since Brexit's taken place, that way it will reduce the cost of living until the British pound stablise again.

[Michaelatv Destiny]

I had to laugh at one poster saying 5$ for a gallon of petrol is robbery. I remind none UK residents, that fuel and energy prices take a huge amount of income from even those who are working.  We currently pay on conversion 12.50$ per gallon. The days we used to be able to just go anywhere you want for £20 of petrol has long gone. The same applies to car insurance, which is very high. I been driving since 1970. But even then , the cheapest insurance I could find for 2006 Zara picasso auto costs me £66 a month on direct debit. That also has to come out of my fixed pension.  I can't imagine any USA resident paying without grumbling 2 gallons of petrol for 23$ .this also effects light vans and delivery vehicles, which is why some delivery charge s are quite high. Sorry for duplicate post. This new tablet is not like a Windows PC with mouse and keyboard. I never spam my whole life. This is just a problem I haven't solved yet that's all

Edited February 1, 2020 by Michaelatv Destiny

[KanryDrago]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I had many friends, at the time of the referendum, who were card-carrying "progressives" -- pro-immigration, pro-refugee, anti-nationalist, etc. -- but who supported Brexit because they argued (quite correctly) that the EU was an instrument of Neoliberalism and austerity. And so they, like a lot of Labour MPs and supporters, thought leaving was a great idea, because it would allow Britain to chart it's own left-leaning, internationalist course.

And I kept pointing to Nigel Farage, and Johnson and Gove, and UKIP, and so many of the other Brexiters, and saying "Look at the company you're keeping!" I mean, they wanted to leave Europe so that they could pursue nationalism, and isolationism, and sometimes downright racist policies. You can't both be right, I'd say -- which vision is going to win out if Britain leaves, a progressive or a reactionary one?

I think it's pretty clear now which "vision" has won, predictably.

And if Scotland leaves, which would be terribly sad and retrograde, but pretty understandable, what's left of Britain is going to be under the thumb of the reactionaries for at least a generation.

It's terribly, terribly sad. I love Britain, but it's slowly becoming almost unrecognizable.

For a lot of those of us that voted leave it was for reasons of control of our own destinies scylla. It has been an open secret admitted by many in national governments that if you want to put in something you wont get past your own parliament get the eu to implement. One of britains ministers came out and openly admitted this in about 2012.

As a country we could elect who we liked to our governement, we could love their manifesto, elect them on the basis of what they said they wanted to do....then get told when they got to power sorry we cant do that after all because its against eu rules. Sorry not acceptable to a lot of us.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

28 minutes ago, Michaelatv Destiny said:

I had to laugh at one poster saying 5$ for a gallon of petrol is robbery. I remind none UK residents, that fuel and energy prices take a huge amount of income from even those who are working.  We currently pay on conversion 12.50$ per gallon. The days we used to be able to just go anywhere you want for £20 of petrol has long gone. The same applies to car insurance, which is very high. I been driving since 1970. But even then , the cheapest insurance I could find for 2006 Zara picasso auto costs me £66 a month on direct debit. That also has to come out of my fixed pension.  I can't imagine any USA resident paying without grumbling 2 gallons of petrol for 23$ .this also effects light vans and delivery vehicles, which is why some delivery charge s are quite high. Sorry for duplicate post. This new tablet is not like a Windows PC with mouse and keyboard. I never spam my whole life. This is just a problem I haven't solved yet that's all

For the U.S. it is high..

I sometimes laugh when people from other countries brag about having free health care,but complain about high prices for everything else.

Did they really think it was free?

[KanryDrago]

40 minutes ago, Michaelatv Destiny said:

I had to laugh at one poster saying 5$ for a gallon of petrol is robbery. I remind none UK residents, that fuel and energy prices take a huge amount of income from even those who are working.  We currently pay on conversion 12.50$ per gallon. The days we used to be able to just go anywhere you want for £20 of petrol has long gone. The same applies to car insurance, which is very high. I been driving since 1970. But even then , the cheapest insurance I could find for 2006 Zara picasso auto costs me £66 a month on direct debit. That also has to come out of my fixed pension.  I can't imagine any USA resident paying without grumbling 2 gallons of petrol for 23$ .this also effects light vans and delivery vehicles, which is why some delivery charge s are quite high. Sorry for duplicate post. This new tablet is not like a Windows PC with mouse and keyboard. I never spam my whole life. This is just a problem I haven't solved yet that's all

You do know most of that petrol price is tax? mostly imposed by the infamous fuel escalator of Gordon Brown. You dont need to spend money in sl. Your crap about so you dont want to have a good skin....sorry one off purchase....you dont need a homestead. Cant afford it then scale down like anyone sensible would do

[Alwin Alcott]

46 minutes ago, Michaelatv Destiny said:

  We currently pay on conversion 12.50$ per gallon.

The average price of a litre of fuel in the UK is now around £1.28 for petrol and £1.34 for diesel. But how much it costs to fill up can vary from street to street and town to town.

at the bbc page:
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-21238363
 

hardly half of what you state

Edited February 1, 2020 by Alwin Alcott

[Bitsy Buccaneer]

What an absolute rubbish fire of misinformation this thread has become.

[Da5id Weatherwax]

Just now, KanryDrago said:

For a lot of those of us that voted leave it was for reasons of control of our own destinies scylla. It has been an open secret admitted by many in national governments that if you want to put in something you wont get past your own parliament get the eu to implement. One of britains ministers came out and openly admitted this in about 2012.

As a country we could elect who we liked to our governement, we could love their manifesto, elect them on the basis of what they said they wanted to do....then get told when they got to power sorry we cant do that after all because its against eu rules. Sorry not acceptable to a lot of us.

 

That's a perfectly valid opinion. Of course it carries with it that by rejecting those disadvantages of EU membership you are also surrendering the advantages. Those upsides and downsides are so evenly balanced it's not surprising the same is true of opinions on which to prioritize.

I  personally think there's a real danger in choosing a course with such long-term consequences as EU membership or not by a simple majority when opinion is so evenly divided. Most organizations that have any kind of membership vote mechanism in place set decisions of comparable magnitude as requiring a supermajority - usually 2/3 of those voting - to change the status quo. This prevents erratic policy changes in areas where such would be more damaging than either of the two competing policies. It's also far from unknown in the governance of nations too, for exactly the same reason. 

And that's why I think Brexit should not have happened this time around. If the benefits of getting out of the EU were clear-cut enough to sway 2/3, then even the losing side would accept it. If there isn't a majority large enough for that to be the case, it shouldn't have happened.

For me personally, Brexit has made me an SNP member, but I would argue to my fellow members that the 2/3 rule should apply to any vote for splitting the union too - even though, under current circumstances, it is a course I would favor and there aren't the votes (yet) to reach that threshold.

[KanryDrago]

3 minutes ago, Da5id Weatherwax said:

That's a perfectly valid opinion. Of course it carries with it that by rejecting those disadvantages of EU membership you are also surrendering the advantages. Those upsides and downsides are so evenly balanced it's not surprising the same is true of opinions on which to prioritize.

I  personally think there's a real danger in choosing a course with such long-term consequences as EU membership or not by a simple majority when opinion is so evenly divided. Most organizations that have any kind of membership vote mechanism in place set decisions of comparable magnitude as requiring a supermajority - usually 2/3 of those voting - to change the status quo. This prevents erratic policy changes in areas where such would be more damaging than either of the two competing policies. It's also far from unknown in the governance of nations too, for exactly the same reason. 

And that's why I think Brexit should not have happened this time around. If the benefits of getting out of the EU were clear-cut enough to sway 2/3, then even the losing side would accept it. If there isn't a majority large enough for that to be the case, it shouldn't have happened.

For me personally, Brexit has made me an SNP member, but I would argue to my fellow members that the 2/3 rule should apply to any vote for splitting the union too - even though, under current circumstances, it is a course I would favor and there aren't the votes (yet) to reach that threshold.

I certainly am not saying the eu had no advantages, for me personally though the disadvantages outweighed the advantages by a huge amount. For example I am extremely pleased that the UK wont be implementing the madness of the new eu copyright rules (specifically article 13 which was changed to article 17)

Edited February 1, 2020 by KanryDrago

[Syo Emerald]

9 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Did they really think it was free?

Well, I think a bit high gas prices are acceptable (although those are usually more pushed by environmental concerns and the outlook that the necessary ressources for gas aren't endless and getting the last drop of it becomes increasingly more expensive...), if in return I never have to fear experiancing one of the many horror stories I hear from the US, where you might aswell shot yourself in the head, if you are poor and get cancer or a chronic illness.

Any half-way educated person knows its not free. Nobody with a working brain claims its free in a sense of "paid with love and air". Anyone who works sees the cut taken out of their salary each month for taxes and social security. But its free in terms of "you don't pay the bill".

[KanryDrago]

2 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

Well, I think a bit high gas prices are acceptable (although those are usually more pushed by environmental concerns and the outlook that the necessary ressources for gas aren't endless and getting the last drop of it becomes increasingly more expensive...), if in return I never have to fear experiancing one of the many horror stories I hear from the US, where you might aswell shot yourself in the head, if you are poor and get cancer or a chronic illness.

Any half-way educated person knows its not free. Nobody with a working brain claims its free in a sense of "paid with love and air". Anyone who works sees the cut taken out of their salary each month for taxes and social security. But its free in terms of "you don't pay the bill".

The term you are looking for I think is that it's free and the point of delivery. You don't have to think can I afford it before going to the doctor/hospital