How many UK residents will be able to afford SL after Brexit

[LexxiXhan]

12 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

No.

Although the UK as a whole has paid more to the EU than it has received back, the ways in which £billions of EU investment has been spent has generated economical gains that have benefited the UK population in multiple ways - supporting agriculture and fisheries to maintain their viability and continue to provide jobs and revenue, development of poorer areas including education and skills development, supporting thousands upon thousands of new businesses and hundreds of thousands of job opportunities every year as well as supporting social cohesion and directing support to disadvantaged families to empower their life choices and give their children more opportunities and choice, not to mention investment in research, education and innovation - essential to the UK's position and progress when UK funding has been cut or withdrawn.

These things are not insignificant.

[November Velde]

I am not a UK resident. However, I wanted to reply in the hopes of shedding a different light on it. I am Canadian. It costs me 1.32 to purchase a single US dollar(at the time of posting this). This makes (and always had made) owning and/or renting estates financially impossible over any kind of long-term situation. I can't speak for anyone but myself yet I'm sure there are plenty of other Canadians in the same boat who just...get on with it. If you can afford it, great. if not, also great because there are other avenues available to people for less money per week, month, year. If LL decides to lower their rates for UK residents, then they would have to do the same for every other country on this planet. That's not going to happen.

[Garnet Psaltery]

15 minutes ago, LexxiXhan said:

Although the UK as a whole has paid more to the EU than it has received back, the ways in which £billions of EU investment has been spent has generated economical gains that have benefited the UK population in multiple ways - supporting agriculture and fisheries to maintain their viability and continue to provide jobs and revenue, development of poorer areas including education and skills development, supporting thousands upon thousands of new businesses and hundreds of thousands of job opportunities every year as well as supporting social cohesion and directing support to disadvantaged families to empower their life choices and give their children more opportunities and choice, not to mention investment in research, education and innovation - essential to the UK's position and progress when UK funding has been cut or withdrawn.

These things are not insignificant.

Give me some facts and I might listen.  You answered too quickly to capture my edited comment, but never mind.  When you say things like "supporting social cohesion and directing support to disadvantaged families to empower their life choices and give their children more opportunities and choice" it just sounds like Eurobabble to me.

[LexxiXhan]

1 minute ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

it just sounds like Eurobabble to me

Then nothing further I say will make a difference.

[rasterscan]

I got real bad news for fellow Brits. Word on the ground is our masters of the universe intend to reach 1 to 1 parity sterling / usa dollar ready for those fancy trade deals Don didn't promise.

[Albion Teardrop]

...and don't say Brexit is a "stupid decision". That's your opinion, which you are entitled to but if you can't afford £6.00 on top of what you were paying, I suggest you were sailing too close to the wind previously with whatever disposable income you have. I'm on retirement income also and would have no problem with a £6.00 increase. Forum says I'm a "Newbie" but been on SL for 11 years and counting, and have had homestead sims whilst on said retirement income. Official Brexit date tomorrow: Hurrah!

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Albion Teardrop

[Lindal Kidd]

Golly...these arguments sound an awful lot like the ones we have here in the USA. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

8 hours ago, Michaelatv Destiny said:

I'm just getting some feedback from my fellow Brits. In 2016 I had an affordable homestead I could keep under my present retired income. We were getting 1.49$ to one GBP. Our currency crashed big time after stupid decision to leave.

In no time at all it was down to 1.35$, which added £6 a week extra on my tier, which I could not afford. So been waiting 3 years for GBP to recover back to 1.49$ Again. This hasn't happened, and I really losing hope I will ever be able to buy or rent in the near future.

Brexit happens any day now, and there's no doubt in my mind that our GBP Will go into free fall. I conservatively predict the pound will be almost worthless, crashing to about 1.10$ to one GBP. That would push up the price of a homestead to £9 -£10 a week, from pre 2016 levels.

Who ,on fixed incomes or low pay will be able to afford to buy or rent land, especially in Blake's Seas, where I used to own airports and afford half a mainland sim to rent. Do you think it's time for Linden labs to stop using real world currency's floations for what is only a game platform. It makes unfair competition to countries who don't have a huge economy like the USA. So how many are still going to buy or rent, if the pound crashes on 1st February.???? Of course it may go up, but that's most unlikely, seeing the coranavirus is already depressing financial markets. Your thoughts?????

Not only can I, personally, not even imagine spending that much money monthly in SL, I cannot even fathom the concept of someone feeling like owning a homestead (or similar expenditures) is almost a necessity to enjoy their SL.  Some parts of this, IMO, even have the air of 'entitlement'.

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Not only can I, personally, not even imagine spending that much money monthly in SL, I cannot even fathom the concept of someone feeling like owning a homestead (or similar expenditures) is almost a necessity to enjoy their SL.  Some parts of this, IMO, even have the air of 'entitlement'.

Which parts have an air of 'entitlement' for you?

[Luna Bliss]

20 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Not only can I, personally, not even imagine spending that much money monthly in SL

maybe you spend even more in new shoes and butts...    

[Mollymews]

1 hour ago, rasterscan said:

I got real bad news for fellow Brits. Word on the ground is our masters of the universe intend to reach 1 to 1 parity sterling / usa dollar ready for those fancy trade deals Don didn't promise.

an essay on what this could mean

back in the day New Zealand went boldly alone into the new world. Not by choice but boldly alone it went

boldly alone ended up with 1 NZD buying 0.44 USD. When previously NZ was in a large international trade bloc, 1 NZD bought 1.33 USD

the nadir of boldly alone was 1984. NZ devalued its currency by a further 20% resulting in the NZD 1:0.44 USD, slashed income taxes, de-unionised the workforce, imposed GST/VAT, sold permanent residency/citizenship to anyone from anywhere in the world for 1 million NZD a pop, sold off huge chunks of taxpayer paid for assets, a move-to-zero tariff program to stimulate international trade, and deregulated everything business. A libertarian/monetarist paradise was envisaged

which promptly turned NZ into an even lower income, lower standard of living country for the masses

where a 'new' car for most people was a secondhand used car imported from another country.  Car dealers used to advertise them as such: New Import Car for Cheap. My mum bought one. People would say: Wow! you have a new car. And mum would say: Yes! its a brand new japanese import. One lady owner in NZ. And everybody would crack up laughing

big barn stores importing and selling seconds from overseas flourished because cheap. And they needed to be cheap because of the massive drop in income relative to other countries. Most NZers couldn't even afford firsts from overseas. Like a factory in say Bangladesh sorts its garments into quality firsts and seconds. Firsts to rich places like USA/Europe. Seconds to all the poor countries like New Zealand. Rubbish, but cheap rubbish. Better a rubbish kinda sortof imported chair than a beer crate to sit the children on when having dinner

the move-to-zero tariff program to stimulate trade resulted in a flood of cheap imports which destroyed the manufacturing base, as nobody (other than Australia) would buy NZ's finished goods because they have didn't have to, because no trade agreement, even with the low exchange rate and low labour costs

why? because NZ product quality was even more rubbish than other countries like Bangladesh. Why the drop in quality? Because NZ deregulated business and the State had got out of trade training. The bold idea of deregulation, according to the monetarist view of market forces, was that businesses would invest in the skilling of their own workforces. Never happened. Capital flowed out of industries that required high technical skillsets and into lower skillset enterprises. Like big barn importers and tourism-oriented businesses

what compounded this was the cost of tertiary education, previously paid for by the parent taxpayer generations, was shifted to the children. Children became indebted to pay for their own tertiary education, because utopian freedom to choose and pay for one's own destiny, as a child. The best and brighest of the indebted children moved overseas where they could earn a whole lot more money, for the skills they possessed which they paid for. Children who owe zero filial duty to the land of their parents. Parents who deliberately chose to allow their children to go into debt, before their children were in any position to pay any kind of debt

NZ muddled along for the next 25 or so years in this theoretical utopia, which sucked in practice for most people

then in 2008 NZ secured a Trade Agreement with China. China wanted primary produce to feed its factories and people. And NZ can supply that. Timber, dairy and farm produce. Chop down trees faster than they can be regenerated. Irrigate and fertilise the heck out of marginal fallow lands. Turn marginal fallow land into milk and vine/fruit producers. Which happened. Downside is that vines consume a lot of water and chemicals. And cows produce a lot of pollutants and use a lot of water. Ended up trashing the waterways. NZ managed to destroy its once world-renown reputation for Clean and Green, in a decade

the NZ to USD exchange rate began to rise in leaps and bounds. Much rejoicing, utopia is finally being realised

then the world recession which was happening at the same time began to bite hard. US got into quantitive easing. USD tanked. NZD peaked at 1:0.92. Even more rejoicing. NZ utopia even more awesome

then the recession, and China's attempts to peg its currency to the USD to support its exports, really started to bite China. NZ produce got more expensive to buy. China started buying less. Australia too. And then a bit later on, a change in US Adminstration. NZ's nearly trade agreement with the US ended up in the bin. USA and China got into a trade war. China, NZ's biggest trade partner, is coming second in that war. NZD is now worth about 0.65 USD today and falling

this is the real world for countries that either by choice or circumstance go it alone in the world

the UK is a lot bigger and more robust than New Zealand ever will be. So the swings of utopian freedom I think will be less severe for the UK

Is not going to be easy tho. The reality for the British masses is that should their country go down the low taxes, less State intervention, minimal regulation path then is not going to result in any kind of utopia for them, the masses. If it goes really bad (and I hope not) then they will at least be able to buy a brand new japanese or german import used car. One lady owner in the UK

[FairreLilette]

You could get a Second Life job.  I did once.  Made about forty to fifty U.S. dollars a month and spent no real life money.  

I've lived in super cheap skyboxes and in a 2-Story absolutely gorgeous Victorian home in SL because my money fluctuates due to real life expenses which may change from month to month.

However, no matter where I lived,  I enjoyed SL all the same.  

You could also try fishing.  I hang out almost every day with a group that goes fishing.  

[Michaelatv Destiny]

16 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

absurd statement 
in case you missed something years ago while signing up: Second Life is FREE  ...all spending is voluntary

I disagree my friend. All games says there free to play. Yes, ok basically it is. But what would you look like in a newbie skin and Jeremy corbyns basic shirt and trousers. Ok so say you like the look at having a Gorean  experience, which I was a panther in the Valkerie forest. For all the freebies around, you still need a decent skin, maybe Tatt's, decent bows and spears  axes aren't free.  Do you really want an horrible free standing or walking override r?Your clan also appreciated donations to. Can hardly be an active player without contributing.  Many games advertised as "free to play"in fact aren't. rather "pay to win".  If you want look like a newbie all your SL life, that's up to you. But in the end most of us have no choice to buy something. My first house I  got, I found Lok's to furnish it.  And what about visiting adult venues. Can't have much fun with no gas or similar genitals. 

I don't bregrudge my spending I have 5000 items including many houses, 30 aircraft and yachts. Marine underwater reefs and waves.yes it was my decision to spend on SL at a time land and finances were pretty manageable. What I am saying,  is , LL has always priced land at a rate, which in the real world outside is nearly the same price as the rent for a real life dwelling.  With so many uncertainty around Iran, oil, heatwaves, hacking problems. I just think LL COULD do a lot more to attract new residents by lowering many of their core financial demands made on players who want to afford SL, but many don't stay mainly cos no mentors anymore of which I was one, and to someone on zero contracts work, LL makes it very difficult for millions of people on minimum wages to buy or use SL effectively without looking as an avatar you obviously are poor. But thanks again for all the comments. I look forward to tonight when Boris Johnson addresses our nation, and eagerly await the next day's financial markets. Then we can make a more informed conclusion on British players hopes and aspirations. 🤗😁😁

[Alwin Alcott]

2 minutes ago, Michaelatv Destiny said:

I disagree ....................... aspirations. 🤗😁😁

it's again simply not true what you say
There are really lóads of good skins, appliers, hairs, clothes and even on regularly base, free mesh bodies, you only need to make some efford to find and catch.

I'm living my SL for over 13 years.. jumping from free to premium, from paid to hunter, from fp region to homestead and all in between.. ... it's all there!  Last months playing the home game on Bellie ... never been so happy as with the Trailers ..on 512 parcels !!

Bringing in Iran and heatwaves ... seriously... how serious do you want to be taken?


 

[Alwin Alcott]

11 hours ago, LexxiXhan said:

Although the UK as a whole has paid more to the EU than it has received back...

there are more countries ... and not at first UK, but the Netherlands and Germany And not for the same reason.
The Netherlands/Germany always been big nett payers because of our economy.

The UK also a big payer, but never participated fully in the EU as the mainland states. Thats a choice that was asked for by politics, there's a book full of rules that are/were exceptions for the UK, on those exclusions of course financial support from Brussel was impossible. So yes.. you got less there.

Don't take me wrong as if i'm against the step the UK makes, i think they will feel it the next years, but come out stronger as before. Wished more countries had the guts to step out of that moloch.

[Michaelatv Destiny]

31 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

it's again simply not true what you say
There are really lóads of good skins, appliers, hairs, clothes and even on regularly base, free mesh bodies, you only need to make some efford to find and catch.

I'm living my SL for over 13 years.. jumping from free to premium, from paid to hunter, from fp region to homestead and all in between.. ... it's all there!  Last months playing the home game on Bellie ... never been so happy as with the Trailers ..on 512 parcels !!

Bringing in Iran and heatwaves ... seriously... how serious do you want to be taken?


 

 

[Michaelatv Destiny]

Well Alwin, we already have one of the highest fuel charges in the EU area. Unfortunately to get out of the house, instead of living as a vegetable I have to run a picasso which has a large tailgate to take my mobility scooter, which I also have to pay rent for it to the government. As an amatuer meteorologist since 1963, and a student of the in Dutch .no open university course on ecological matters and ocean plastics, the most pressing matter to stop counties having to spend huge amounts on fires and flooding defences has a deffinate cost to the world economy. Our climate s are changing rapidly ,instead of 1000 years. Just in my lifetime of 69 years we are approaching a 2% rise in global and ocean tempatures. It's folly to ignore the rising cost of damage and  any problem with Iran has a knock on effect especially if they continue to attack tankers and oil refineries. You see The USA doesn't depend on middle East oil, which is why it's so cheap in the USa. But closer to home  we do depend on middle East oil for heating and trucks, cars etc. It's important the relationship between climate change and steady oil supplies has a huge effect on our disposable income. Once again thanks for your comment

 

[Jackson Redstar]

unintended consequences. This may put Linden out of business as pensioners in the UK can't afford to play in a virtual world no more!!!!

[Alwin Alcott]

5 hours ago, Michaelatv Destiny said:

Well Alwin, we already have one of the highest fuel charges in the EU area. Unfortunately to get out of the house, instead of living as a vegetable I have to run a picasso which has a large tailgate to take my mobility scooter, which I also have to pay rent for it to the government. As an amatuer meteorologist since 1963, and a student of the in Dutch .no open university course on ecological matters and ocean plastics, the most pressing matter to stop counties having to spend huge amounts on fires and flooding defences has a deffinate cost to the world economy. Our climate s are changing rapidly ,instead of 1000 years. Just in my lifetime of 69 years we are approaching a 2% rise in global and ocean tempatures. It's folly to ignore the rising cost of damage and  any problem with Iran has a knock on effect especially if they continue to attack tankers and oil refineries. You see The USA doesn't depend on middle East oil, which is why it's so cheap in the USa. But closer to home  we do depend on middle East oil for heating and trucks, cars etc. It's important the relationship between climate change and steady oil supplies has a huge effect on our disposable income. Once again thanks for your comment

 

let me now think we were talking about costs for SL ....

Edited January 31, 2020 by Alwin Alcott

[Cedric Brown]

17 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

But it doesn't make sense that a  government would suddenly reduce any tax 20% (if that is indeed the VAT tax amount) without compensating elsewhere to make up the difference.

Remember that whenever a politician tells you the new tax they are recommending you vote for is only temporary

[Zak Westminster]

If any fellow UK resident uses the excuse of Brexit to not to be able to afford to do things in Second Life that is just what it is - an excuse because they were spending too much as it was anyway.

Fluctuations on the exchange rate between the pound and dollar has been going on all of the time and actually is a lot better now that uncertainty has been removed from the equation - that's what the markets do not like.

Some may have to cut back due to personal circumstances but lets not kid ourselves - there have been worse things, recessions, financial crisis, decimation of the industrial infrastructure. Brexit is just a blip compared to those.

What matters more is how we as a nation move forward and ensure a certain country does not exploit us.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Zak Westminster

[Janet Voxel]

Just out of curiosity, how much does a Homestead cost these days?

[Odaks]

Whatever the cause of the circumstances one finds oneself in today, it is always sensible to heed carefully the very wise proverb, "cut your coat according to your cloth". The circumstances of yesterday are irrelevant. Rueful, maybe, but irrelevant.

Expecting somebody else to just give you better cloth never seems to play out very well, either.

[Alwin Alcott]

27 minutes ago, janetosilio said:

Just out of curiosity, how much does a Homestead cost these days?

https://secondlife.com/land/privatepricing.php
 

think most landlords rent homesteads out somwhere between 6500 and 7500 L$ a week, the one where i been renting for some years asks 7000 now ( but always ask for rebates )

[Syo Emerald]

3 hours ago, Michaelatv Destiny said:

Many games advertised as "free to play"in fact aren't. rather "pay to win".

While this is true for some games, it is not for SL. A "pay to win" game has key elements of the gameplay locked behind a paywall, making the game either directly unplayable or setting players, who can't or don't want to spend money, at such a servere disadvantage, that they are basically unable to archieve the same things a paying player would, even if they could pour endless hours into the game. You are able to "win" those games, if you have the deepest pockets. Games like that attract so called "whales", people with astronomically spendings ingame, because they can buy sucess almost in an instand (at least compared to people spending less).

Second Life however is different. Mainly because it does not have a universal game system and you can't be a "winner" here, but you are also not punished by spending less. On average, I might spend 20$ a month on SL, while you afford an entire Homestead + whatever else you purchase on the side. But that difference in spending does not translate into you being more sucessful or able to enjoy SL than I am.

I would compare Second Life more to games that offer a cosmetic itemshop, where players can purchase optional, decorative things and a bit useful stuff, but nothing that breaks the game mechanics for those, that don't pay. Setting up a very good looking avatar is archieveable with little money, but then you can't chose as freely as you may like. But you could also say you invest a one time payment equal to todays price of a AAA game into L$ and set up your avatar with all the good stuff, without looking at the price tag. After that, nothing forces you to keep that level of spending up.

 

Bottom line is this: Its all about perspective. If you worry about currency exchange fluctuation, decrease your spending a little bit. Many people can't afford a Homestead....so how about half a Homestead instead, or something similar? That would definitly help reduce your fear of going over your SL budget. And hey, 1,10 is not the end of the word, thats where the Euro is currently sitting at and we manage to still enjoy and participate in SL.