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foneco Zuzu

Airfields on the regions south of victorian?

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When Bellisseria started, LL provided its community with 2 really lovely airfields.

Sadly since then, no other was built and as Bellisseria regions to the south and south west of the Victorian regions are well spread with lots of water regions connecting them, i'm wondering if the Moles will create at least one on those same regions.

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There's a lot of them in Jeogeot which runs alongside and then to the south of Bellisseria now.

It's one of the reasons I avoid a lot of mainland now... I can't stand the design of those airports.

I kinda like the peace of being in a region so far away from airports...

but if we have to have them... something like the one in Coral Waters - but on a new region... don't take away my water for that...

Maybe east of here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Dimanche/248/136/22

or south/east of here: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/SSPE1047/189/63/22

Edited by Pussycat Catnap
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7 minutes ago, foneco Zuzu said:

Sadly since then, no other was built

seeing the free available slots for take off and landings on the existing airports, new ones aren't build with the bad environmental impact and polutions  :)

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Airplanes and airfields in SL are a bit of a joke. Especially the huge passenger planes and fast fighter planes.
However, helicopters are quite nice to use for sightseeing trips in SL - and as a bonus, they don't need airfields. ūüėÉ

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4 hours ago, foneco Zuzu said:

2 really lovely airfields

Oxymoron, anyone?

I'm sorry, foneco, I like you but IMHO, airfields are ugly.  I don't care how well-built they are, they are (must be!) long empty expanses of pavement.  Blargh.  Maybe with a tower that has flashing lights and resembles Sauron's abode.  Hooray.

Aren't two enough?  I mean, they're for PLANES.  Don't planes cover long distances rather quickly? 

4 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

/me holds up a big sign reading NIMBY!!!

Perhaps my opinion is colored by the fact that I've never quite understood the practical use of airfields in SL.  Are planes actually scripted to in some way NEED an extended horizontal run ... maybe reach a certain velocity or something ...  to take off and/or land'? 

Being a sailing aficionado, I suppose I should be more sympathetic to the needs of any form of transport.  But IRL, real estate near an airport is inexpensive, being undesirable.  I'm afraid I feel the same about them in SL.  Whereas big expanses of sailable water ... well, we all know how much a house costs on the a coast!

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Yes, aircraft do need airfields to take off and land. Like boats to need docks and so on.

Besides ugly is a personal point of view!

But the point that matters is, if there is on the North of Bellisseria; 2 airfields, why can not be build 1 at the south?

Sansara has hundreds of airfields and that didn't stop LL to build them at Belli.

So the argument that there are 2 many in Jug is a no go.

And i truly wish some stop making comparisons about rl and sl regarding some issues; like airports, oceanic Ships and so on.

We all (but some retards) are aware of climatic changes, but lets not joke with them trying to ban them from the place where all dreams should be made true!

 

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32 minutes ago, foneco Zuzu said:

Yes, aircraft do need airfields to take off and land. Like boats to need docks and so on.

Besides ugly is a personal point of view!

But the point that matters is, if there is on the North of Bellisseria; 2 airfields, why can not be build 1 at the south?

Sansara has hundreds of airfields and that didn't stop LL to build them at Belli.

So the argument that there are 2 many in Jug is a no go.

And i truly wish some stop making comparisons about rl and sl regarding some issues; like airports, oceanic Ships and so on.

We all (but some retards) are aware of climatic changes, but lets not joke with them trying to ban them from the place where all dreams should be made true!

 

I was pretty much in agreement with you till you chose to use the word "retard". You must know that many people find that to be offensive. 

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The problem is... where do you put a sim sized piece of absolute sheer ugly blight?

These things are just... ugly...

They're all over mainland. We've got 2 of them in Bellisseria already. Can we not have one slice of peace where we don't have that thing as a part of our experience?

The reason I noted the ones in Jeogeot is... is that too far away to be able to make a trip from there to the ones in Bellisseria?

Boat launches and land vehicles rezzing spots can be either small or not even visibly there. Small flying craft can be parked on people's land or use those same rezzing spots as boats and land vehicles.

 

These things want a whole region to themselves, to basically put down pavement. And yet... they already have a LOT of those in the spaces around Bellisseria.

Perhaps instead we should remove one of the existing ones, the one near the fairgrounds, and move it to near one of the spots I listed above - allowing for a more connecting route from Sansaria to northwest B to southeast B to Jeogeot?

 

I know I'm the one who asked for more water so this might read as hypocritical to some... but I see a difference. Bellisseria is actually already amazingly welcome to any flying vehicle that is NOT region-sized... the lack of banlines and security orbs at flying height means aircraft already have it better than any other kind of vehicle... if they're small enough to be rezzed on one's own land or an existing rez spot (of which there are many).

So... this is different.

If air-travel in vehicles in general was being restricted I would have a radically different opinion on the topic...

 

******************

I remain open to changing my opinion pending suggestions on where to put these that I find not intrusive to residents using Bellisseria to avoid mainland style blight.

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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1 hour ago, foneco Zuzu said:

Yes, aircraft do need airfields to take off and land. Like boats to need docks and so on.

Besides ugly is a personal point of view!

? SL boats do not actually NEED docks; nothing in the scripting of a boat interacts with a dock.  For the sake of avatar embarking/disembarking, a 5M long dock will generally do, no matter what the size of a boat.

So, tell me.  Is there anything in the scripting of an SL plane that NEEDS an airstrip?  Do they have to taxi for a certain amount of meters, or get up to speed, before the plane will lift off, or does the pilot just tell the plane when to elevate by pulling on the virtual joystick?

The thing I'm getting at is, do SL airstrips have to be huge?  The ugliness is partly because of the loooooong expanse of pavement.  Also, I'm afraid "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is not true for something that looks like an empty parking lot.  It may give you joy to see it because you are a plane aficionado, but that does not mean it is beautiful.

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10 minutes ago, Nika Talaj said:

The thing I'm getting at is, do SL airstrips have to be huge?  The ugliness is partly because of the loooooong expanse of pavement. 

Not too long back I thought I posted a pic of my neighbor in Coral Bay that had a parcel sized plane. On a prim, at 2020m up. No runway.

It -LOOKED LIKE- the kinds of planes that use those sim sized airports. So at least for that one specific plane the airport is just roleplay.

EDIT: Looks like I just commented about it, I didn't take a pic. But basically yes - it was a plane that filled the entire size of the parcel, so it had no space left for a runway.

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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1 hour ago, Nika Talaj said:

? SL boats do not actually NEED docks; nothing in the scripting of a boat interacts with a dock.  For the sake of avatar embarking/disembarking, a 5M long dock will generally do, no matter what the size of a boat.

So, tell me.  Is there anything in the scripting of an SL plane that NEEDS an airstrip?  Do they have to taxi for a certain amount of meters, or get up to speed, before the plane will lift off, or does the pilot just tell the plane when to elevate by pulling on the virtual joystick?

The thing I'm getting at is, do SL airstrips have to be huge?  The ugliness is partly because of the loooooong expanse of pavement.  Also, I'm afraid "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is not true for something that looks like an empty parking lot.  It may give you joy to see it because you are a plane aficionado, but that does not mean it is beautiful.

Yes aeroplanes and gyrocopters are generally scripted to need a runway to reach the required speed before lift off. Generally, the bigger the plane the longer the runway needed.

The landing strips in North Bellisseria, have always seemed quite attractive to me and a nice amenity. I have only tried flying a few times, but having something similar in the south would make a lot of sense. I wouldn't fly a plane much faster than I would a boat so expecting me to take it all the way to Jeogeot would double the journey time and be a much bigger time commitment than a short hop around the continent to a southern island airstrip.

Edit to add : the one in Jinsil is a handy location for South Bellisseria, though.

Edited by Aethelwine
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1 hour ago, Aethelwine said:

Edit to add : the one in Jinsil is a handy location for South Bellisseria, though.

47 regions of Bellisseria homes are actually SOUTH of that airport.

Plus 7 are west of it. And the Victorians start only 3 regions north of it.

It's also a prime example of what I hate most about mainland... look at the nightmare it's left on the map... I had to set my draw distance to over 600 to see it all while I was placed under it when I TP'd to it...

It took a 368 draw distance to get this:

7951194148bdf7d46356f8390254eaa6.jpg

- that's one of the Bellisseria ones.

That's an entire region devoted to a small roleplay group, a subset of vehicle users that are themselves a subset of people using flying vehicles. MUCH smaller than say... the number of people who would use that same place for sailing given the option...

That said... the Bellisseria airports are not as bad as mainland ones... but still... if that has to be added somewhere, put some distance between it any any homes, and put it on a wholly new region.

 

Here's the Jinsil one, I didn't wait for all the textures to load - so imagine this in color rather than gray:

62c8570c936ab928b04b07eef0b434e8.jpg

 

Basically my points come down to:

  1. NIMBY and NI-anyones-BY
  2. Don't take away anyone's view for this
  3. Don't convert an existing region to this
  4. Why give whole regions to such a small userbase? It's not like rez-spots or the Galaxy that anyone uses. It's a very niche group.

I think I'm overstating myself in this topic... so I'm going to try to step away from it for a while... hoping I don't get dragged back in by getting quoted... O.o

 

 

Edited by Pussycat Catnap

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5 hours ago, foneco Zuzu said:

We all (but some retards) are aware of climatic changes, but lets not joke with them trying to ban them from the place where all dreams should be made true!

 

lets start with banning the idiots that keep claiming they need the banlines to go, free access to other peoples air, annoy 90% of the belli users and more freedom for the 3 pilots that want to fly over whole belliseria.
Your group been the loudest at start of Belli, and what you see? ... nearly nobody uses it, for most of the day you could dump a bomb on those airports and nobody would get hurt because it's empty, really need more resources? ...

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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I find some of the replies on this topic to be frankly both utterly biased and extremely hypocritical, but unfortunately I am not surprised :( 

Now let's get my position out in the open right away - I am an avid flyer who flies around Belli literally every single day. Having said that, I don't think we need any more airfields there, NOT for the reasons others have listed, but simply because of what Patch and Moles have repeatedly said - Bellisseria is LL Home continent, and its primary purpose is to give premium members a place to live in. ANY other activity we get to enjoy in Belli is a bonus, simple as that.

Now to dispel some clearly biased/ uniformed / hypocritical statements or opinions.

All airports are apparently ugly - FALSE  Whilst certainly most are pretty ugly builds, in part it is necessary due to the owners need to rent out most of it in an attempt to recover costs. However, throughout aviation history in SL, there have been some absolutely wonderful looking regional airports, that weren't simply "long empty expanses of pavement"

Attached are some pics of a current SL airport that's hardly an ugly build. Yes, "pretty" airfields are an exception to the rule, but I don't think the OP ever specifically asked for a big ugly airfield ;)

Finally, the absurd notion that aviation in SL is some incredibly tiny roleplay group, as evidenced by this ridiculous comment:

"That's an entire region devoted to a small roleplay group, a subset of vehicle users that are themselves a subset of people using flying vehicles. MUCH smaller than say... the number of people who would use that same place for sailing given the option... "

A quick search of SL groups reveals the following:

The largest Sailing groups in SL:  SL Sailing Association with 2473 members, and the Leeward Cruising Club with 2404 members.

The largest Flying group in SL: SL Aviation with 3816 members.

Whilst not everyone who sails belongs to a sailing group, equally not everyone that flies belongs to an aviation group, so we can take the above group member numbers as a decent statistic which proves that in reality, sailors and fliers are pretty equal.

Even if personally I don't want to see more airfields in Belli, it is incredibly hypocritical for one minority group in SL (sailors) to start threads demanding that LL make larger waterways and add entire regions for them to sail in, then when another minority group (Aviators) ask for something similar, to turn around and say that it isn't needed. If one group has the right to ask for something, then so does another, with equal chance of being heard.

 

BAS1.jpg

BAS2.jpg

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8 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

it is incredibly hypocritical for one minority group in SL (sailors) to start threads demanding that LL make larger waterways and add entire regions for them to sail in, then when another minority group (Aviators) ask for something similar,

but it is nót simular, sailors stay on the waterways, but flyers intrude in peoples personal places.

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26 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

but it is nót simular, sailors stay on the waterways, but flyers intrude in peoples personal places.

Whilst on mainland you could claim the airspace above your home is a personal space, in Bellisseria just like the real world the space above your home up to 2000m is public without permanent structures or orbs.

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17 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

but it is nót simular, sailors stay on the waterways, but flyers intrude in peoples personal places.

That has nothing to do with the request being made, nor does it have anything to do with the objection to the request. 

No-one has said "we don't want more airfields because we don't like planes flying over our land" - Whether there is 0 airfields or 100, planes are still going to fly overhead, the number of airfields is utterly irrelevant here.

This is simply about attitude: if it's ok for sailors to request more regions for sailing, then it's perfectly reasonable for aviators to request something similar, otherwise any sailor objecting to the request is being totally hypocritical. My post was fairly clear in saying that I don't like the idea of more airfields, but that doesn't mean those pilots shouldn't be allowed to ask.

At the end of the day I will leave it to LL to determine what is and what isn't right for Bellisseria, but all residents and/or groups should be given the same rights when it comes to requests. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

but it is nót simular, sailors stay on the waterways, but flyers intrude in peoples personal places.

I hate it when the jumbo jets land on my coffee table when I'm trying to watch Young and the Restless.

The covenant in Bellisseria pretty much precludes anyone having any actual usable "personal space" between a few a couple hundred and 2000m. Flying vehicles are allowed to use that space even though it is over your land much the same way real aircraft are allowed to fly over your real life home above a certain altitude. Maybe the reason you haven't noticed many people flying is because they are doing it high enough you don't even know they are there.

As far as the airstrips in Bellisseria go, they were made small by design. We wanted them to be functional, while staying as unobtrusive on the views and experiences of residents nearby as possible. 

 

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Sailing or boating is generally a slower mode of transport than flying. One can fly from one airstrip to another (whether they be in Bellisseria or to/from a mainland resident run airport) in much less time than it would take someone in a boat. And you can do so in a straight line. Boating requires you to stay in the open waterways that are navigable for your boat, while aircraft essentially have the entire continent available when flying at altitude. So it stands to reason there would be more rezzing zones for ground and water vehicles than for aircraft.

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40 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

This is simply about attitude: if it's ok for sailors to request more regions for sailing, then it's perfectly reasonable for aviators to request something similar, otherwise any sailor objecting to the request is being totally hypocritical. My post was fairly clear in saying that I don't like the idea of more airfields, but that doesn't mean those pilots shouldn't be allowed to ask.

I don't think anyone is denying aviators the right to ask, but if a request is posted publicly in the forums, others have a right to state their feelings about the request, no?

I will walk back some of my comments about the ugliness of SL airports, tho.  Belli's are fairly rustic, compared to the more usual square-box-industrial-full-bright-and-proud airports that seemed to be everywhere when I explored mainland long ago.  I guess I'm projecting from years of cringing.  The pics you posted, Eowyn, are not bad visuals at all.  As you say, tho, that's a pretty rare look for SL airports.

And I suppose it is natural for aviators to want to see the land they're flying over, so it isn't surprising that I've often encountered planes flying below 200m in SL, giving me the feeling of being 'buzzed', even if that's not the intent.   I don't like feeling like a curmudgeon shaking my fist at the sky as a plane cavorts 85m above.   I suppose if an airport shows up nearby in Belli, that's the moles' business, and we can move. 

I very much appreciate your attempts, Abnor, to permit some air traffic without disrupting non-aviator residents.  Hopefully if more airports are created, they'll be remote enough that there won't be specific neighborhoods that serve as 'flight paths'.

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I quite like the look of the Jinsil one on Jeogeot, the arches look Victorian perhaps a little steampunk, I have definitely seen worse.

A South West airstrip would be nice, but I think the Eastern side feels perhaps a bit more remote and the locations Pussycat Catnap suggests better.

Hopefully there will be more Eastern expansion which would help link up the Eastern Jeogeot waterways and might include an airstrip in that release. 

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1 hour ago, Abnor Mole said:

I hate it when the jumbo jets land on my coffee table when I'm trying to watch Young and the Restless.

The covenant in Bellisseria pretty much precludes anyone having any actual usable "personal space" between a few a couple hundred and 2000m. Flying vehicles are allowed to use that space even though it is over your land much the same way real aircraft are allowed to fly over your real life home above a certain altitude. Maybe the reason you haven't noticed many people flying is because they are doing it high enough you don't even know they are there.

As far as the airstrips in Bellisseria go, they were made small by design. We wanted them to be functional, while staying as unobtrusive on the views and experiences of residents nearby as possible. 

 

no need to give a lesson i think, people here do know what the covenant is, inworld it's a quite larger problem that grows above the capacity of the team.

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There are a great number of truly horrible, eye-blight, sky floating, concrete coated menaces to the environment masquerading as airports in second life, so it is no wonder that this causes a negative reaction outside of the flying community. Having said that, the airstrips in Belli seem absolutely fine to me, and whilst I haven't yet tried flying in SL I have enjoyed the experience in less densely populated grids and really understand the appeal. Virtual flying looks like fun!

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For a sense of fairness I feel the need to add that I have also seen some very well built airports, and even the most awful examples don't rival the brain mangling appallingness of the worst builds out there of other types, especially the genre defying 'what were they thinking' kind.

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Truly I would never think that a simple request would make so much fuzz, so sorry for asking it in first place.

About the "retard" comment, that was rude from my part and was typed under some  occurring at this very moment in RL.

A retarded person is entitled as much as a "normal" one and deserves much more my respect for what they achieve in life.

And to end, i wish to make it clear that i defend the right of privacy in Bellisseria as much as on any other region of second life.

I just dont believe that it is achieved by banlines or by setting security devices to unreasonable  warning times.

Linden Lab already provides a privacy setting any can use in any place one owns without tearing apart a spirit of belonging to a true community.

And if one does not wish to belong to a active community it is a correct and affordable wish to have as well; but i guess Bellisseria will not be the best option for that.

 

 

Edited by foneco Zuzu

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