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40 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I have seen this meme making the rounds lately.  As both an engineer and scientist, I dislike it intensely.  First of all, it contains a logical fallacy, "false cause".  The measurement system used has no bearing on whether or not one can carry out a successful large scale engineering enterprise.  And it's not even internally consistent; England, another holdout against the metric system, has not landed on the moon.

Second, many of the scientists in NASA did (and do) use the metric system.  Certainly my college physics classes used it.  Most astrophysicists and astronomers use it.  As a student, I used metric whenever I possibly could.  It is a much more rational and easy to use system.  No engineer of my acquaintance actually likes the English system, or has been heard to utter nonsense like "real men don't use metric."  We all learned metric and love it, and only use English units when we have to...for example, to enable the use of standard components in the parts catalogs.

If NASA had used the metric system throughout, we'd still have landed on the moon...but probably two years sooner and ten billion dollars cheaper.

Well, it wouldn't be a decent thread if I didn't make at least one person unhappy.

In all seriousness, though, you're overthinking a silly "'Murica, heck ya!" meme.  It's not stating the measurement system mattered, it's stating the US is unique in these two regards.  Sure, you're right about the Brits, but they also still use "stone" and, besides, they're like America's weird uncle, so they don't really count ;)

Obviously, all "real" scientists (ie. those who don't believe the Earth was formed 7,000 years or so ago) use the metric system.  Not sure how metric would have gotten us to the moon earlier or cheaper, though.  "Real men don't use metric" is a mechanic's saying, not an engineer's.  But, any decent mechanic has metric tools, fer workin' on dem furrin cars.

But, I suppose if this is all you have to be uptight about, you live a charmed life :)

I must say, though, I prefer Kelvin to Celsius, at least conceptually. 

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1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

The Metric Conversion Act didn't come into play until after 1975 (it was signed by Ford on December 23, 1975). That is 2 years before I graduated from high school. They didn't even start teaching metric in the schools I attended until it was far too late for me to convert. 

https://www.nytimes.com/1974/02/03/archives/schools-are-urged-to-convert-to-metrics-used-in-most-countries.html

Note the article is dated February 3, 1974.

 

ETA: Also, there's an awful lot of mile markers on highways that would have to be changed. Who's gonna pay for that? Not me.

Roughly 47,000 miles, errrr, 75,000 km of interstate.  Assuming one marker every 0.5 km, that's 150,000 new markers.  I'll bet they can get that done for not a penny over $10B (Davis Bacon wages for labor add up REALLY quick!).  Of course, that leaves all the US highways, state and county highways, so, maybe $100B and 10 years to do.  In other words, a rounding error on federal spending.

Edited by Tolya Ugajin
ETA: I was only 8 at the time, but I distinctly remember Carter getting the blame for metric in the US. Was Ford really so forgettable that they couldn't even remember this was him?
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24 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yes, I know: "free market system!" blah blah blah "their company, their choice!" blah blah blah "people just happen to love that body" blah blah blah.

Yeah, well, you know what? Don't care. My money, my choice.

Ummm, very nice defense of the free market system.

We'll make a capitalist out of you yet!

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Just now, Tolya Ugajin said:

Ummm, very nice defense of the free market system.

We'll make a capitalist out of you yet!

Hmmm, sure.

But if I mention the possibility of an organized boycott (as, actually, I have in the past in SL), the capitalists will be howling like scalded cats. "Business arrangements" between companies are fine, but god forbid you advocate for principled collective action for consumers.

I speak from experience on this one.

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40 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Canada officially began to go metric about the time I was born. Mercifully, this meant that I was largely taught the metric system in school, and have used it almost exclusively my entire life.

The sole practical exception, for me anyway, is recipes. A great many of these -- mostly, I assume, ones that are American or British -- still use things like pounds, ounces (my god, I find ounces confusing: do you mean volume or weight????? FFS, seriously . . .), tablespoons and teaspoons. And every time I find myself having to use the old Imperial system, I thank the gods (and the French Revolution) for metric.

(BTW, I am pretty sure that Tolya wasn't being very serious. But hey, who knows? He's weird, right?)

Canadians are the only people I know (common people, I mean, not scientists, engineers, and those who watch enough Star Trek to understand Klingon) who can move easily between the two.  Maybe the British can as well, I've only spent a few days there.  Use non-metric with the Danes or Italians and they look confused.  Use it with the French and they look ready to guillotine you.  Use it with the Germans and they just laugh.

I was absolutely not being serious.  My physics and engineering professors would have flunked anyone using anything but metric.  Although there was a chemistry prof who likely would have been fine using Klingon measurements.

You should be able to figure out whether it's a fluid ounce or an ounce of weight based on context, silly.  But, as God is my witness, I'll never figure out Tbsp and Tsp or whatever.

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23 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Roughly 47,000 miles, errrr, 75,000 km of interstate.  Assuming one marker every 0.5 km, that's 150,000 new markers.  I'll bet they can get that done for not a penny over $10B (Davis Bacon wages for labor add up REALLY quick!).  Of course, that leaves all the US highways, state and county highways, so, maybe $100B and 10 years to do.  In other words, a rounding error on federal spending.

It's not the cost, it's the endless screeching about how metric is too hard from people who don't know how many inches are in a foot.

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18 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Hmmm, sure.

But if I mention the possibility of an organized boycott (as, actually, I have in the past in SL), the capitalists will be howling like scalded cats. "Business arrangements" between companies are fine, but god forbid you advocate for principled collective action for consumers.

I speak from experience on this one.

A "real" capitalist would never whine about how someone chooses to spend their money.

A real capitalist would use their influence in the media to promote your boycott, while simultaneously shorting the target's stock.  Then, when the price collapses, they take all the money they just made and buy the company for a song, tear it up, and sell off the pieces.  Then, she would use the profits to buy a huge yacht and be served the finest white wines on the lido deck by the best boy toys around, who would wear nothing on their chiseled, oiled, and tanned bodies except tiny banana hammocks, each with their own color.

Don't worry, Scylla, you'll get there!

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4 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

It's not the cost, it's the endless screeching about how metric is too hard from people who don't know how many inches are in a foot.

I was going to tell an old but still funny sexist joke, but I think I'll just hit the "laugh" button instead ;)

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I have a weird question, and it probably has truck all to do with this particular topic, other than being rather unpopular given the climate, well, maybe not truck....but..anyway

Are people seriously convinced that many, most, some other obscure but rather large number, of creators actually only create for one specific body? I mean, is that REALLY the consensus, or are most of the people who say such things just utterly butthurt that anyone creates for the body they dislike, don't wear, didn't buy, consider to be cookie cutter..(insert your own qualifier here) and are projecting that distaste for said creators by embellishing more than a teenage girl in the US during the 90s with a bedazzler ?

I loathe shopping, especially clothes shopping, I rarely ever do it for myself. That said, I do a lot (an embarrassing amount) of helping others find crap they want, because I'm oddly good at that (I know, it makes no sense, stay with me anyway), and I do buy an outfit or so now and again...every few years usually. I have run into far fewer creators, both in my searches for others,  and my own purchasing/searching that cater specifically to ONLY....insert that brand.....than I have creators that cater to multiple.  Like, where the hell are these butthurt people shopping that they're running into a majority of ONLY creators for that ONE body...but not finding creators that make for their body too, or perhaps cater to their specific body?  Most of the crap I've bought (my apologies creators, you make lovely stuff, I tend to use crap as an all encompassing tag word, not typically derogative in this context, I assure you) has multiple body versions in the package, I own literally NOTHING that has only stuff for one body in the package, it would seem that my lack of purchasing would actually result in at least some catered to it, since it is the body I wear, and according to some there are soooooooooooooooo many creators catering to it solely.  It seems more than unreasonable, to me, to suggest that my experience is somehow some kind of niche, freak coincidence and not the norm. I have seen the same in groups I am in, wherein others have the same experience I do. 

I know that some bodies became so before others, it stands to reason that those who came first, would have a larger audience (is this not common sense?). Those that came later would likely have far less customers simply because...maths. Also,  those who are made by people with a less than savory past are going to be scrutinized until the cows come home, spawn new cows, become dinner, then fertilizer which will later grow the feed for generations of cows to come (and imo, rightfully so...y'all are fools to believe them...but, I digress...no name and shaming self, no name and shaming), so will have an even smaller following, regardless of how many people discuss it, pretend to like it, maybe even buy it....

Also, why on earth do people consider it a niche when creators creator for other ALSO highly popular bodies....do people not know what niche means?  It would literally take seconds to do a search on the forums, or even one visit to a busy sim, to find out...those bodies are NOT niche,, loads of folks have them (including a very large amount of people that have the body some seem to loathe) and clearly the creators for them are also not a niche, lol.

Or am I reading way too much into this....BUT YOU DON"Y CREATE FOR MY BODY SO I'M GOING OT HATE ON YOU ALLLLLLL..... stuff? It seems to keep popping up in really random places (some make sense, some do not, lol). I literally watched a group of people, men and women, argue about it in sl. If they were in person, it would've been a knock down drag out fight......over smaller groupings of pixels....and which  larger groupings pixels resembling the human form are better pixels...and why some creators of said smaller grouping of pixels don't make more pixels for other  large groupings of pixels that resemble the human form and  are vastly  more important and better  large groupings of pixels that resemble the human form 

....and my head hurts. 

I have no idea why I ponder this, but  do it every single time I see someone mention how tired they are of creators catering to one specific body, use the word niche for other also VERY popular bodies (for which there are more creations than some think) and my brain runs through these thoughts like they're going out of style, until I get distracted and find something else odd to ponder. 

 

Ooh, look, french toast bagel magically appeared on my desk....(seriously, those suckers are AAAAAAAmazing). 

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19 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Then, she would use the profits to buy a huge yacht and be served the finest white wines on the lido deck by the best boy toys around, who would wear nothing on their chiseled, oiled, and tanned bodies except tiny banana hammocks, each with their own color.

Clearly, I'm playing for the wrong team.

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I don't talk about specifics unless necessary, and in which case  I can be more direct with my, umm, I don't know what word to use there, lol, so I'll go with commentary. If I want things directed at someone, or some comment, specifically and very pointedly, I do so,  because otherwise peopel just get pissed off at me when they assume I meant something I didn't.  Since people tend to not like words a whole lot, explaining my words isn't usually my forte, or high on my to do list, unless I REEEEEEALLY need them understood (for any number of reasons) and they aren't being such.  :D

That's the long way of saying...if I didn't quote you, or mention you, it was probably more of a general commentary, about something that is somewhat commonplace, or relevant, current..again insert your own qualifiers here....my brain hurts tonight and I can only have this page open on the forums in the fashion I do atm (aka, so I Can see and read it), for so long before I Have to shut my eyehole filler covers because it's too much focus for too long in one place for the components of my eyehole fillers to handle. (aka...my eyes hurt after a bit and I Have to close them and stop looking at things when they do)

That said,  let's not pretend there isn't some level of heat being directed at a specific body, and the creators that create for it, by a, seemingly increasing, number of people that don't particularly care for that body. In some cases, it's definitely vitriol versus general conversations, and in others, it's just general conversations or personal observations (which I don't happen to agree with, or have not experienced...hence my curiosity) I mentioned the grouping of people I saw arguing about it inworld, but, I've seen it way more frequently lately, and it's a very weird thing to me. I just am not, and apparently cannot, see (heh, irony) what others are seeing. Usually my questions about it just stay in my head, but I figured a thread that's already about unpopular things was a better place to ask than any of the other number of threads wherein it's a topic of discussion and it's definitely going to insult someone if I ask what their damage is :D

I'm also being particularly verbose just because, making not-so-good use of my limited open eyehole filler cover time :D

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11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

lol

Sorry. I may have assumed you were, at least in part, responding to my post.

If not, no worries. 🙂

It probably wasn't directly towards you. Truth be told...I really did skim the last couple pages, lmao. I just saw it mentioned a few times here, other threads, inworld, some other forum.... :D

 

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1 minute ago, Tari Landar said:

It probably wasn't directly towards you. Truth be told...I really did skim the last couple pages, lmao. I just saw it mentioned a few times here, other threads, inworld, some other forum.... :D

 

Fair enough. For what's it worth, most of your characterization doesn't actually apply to me. I'm not particularly "anti-[that mesh body]" -- in fact, I may well end up buying one simply because it is so much easier to find clothing for it. And it's really, aesthetically, pretty close to the body I use now. (Mind you, were it to come to light in an unequivocal way that said mesh body maker was applying threats and pressure to reduce the choice available on the market, I might change my mind about that.)

So, not pro-this body, or anti-that. What I am is "anti-monopoly."

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I'm gonna win this one, mine will be the most unpopular of all:

Mesh bodies not only need to be lower polygon count, but the UV mapping needs to be redone and trash the default avatar layout, along with all the skins ever produced and start anew so to have higher definition skin texture. 

How's that? 😂

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2 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I have seen this meme making the rounds lately.  As both an engineer and scientist, I dislike it intensely. 

I thought the meme was funny, almost entirely because the English system we still use is a f-ing mess and we got to the Moon anyway. I do think we'd have got there sooner had we been all metric. I also wonder just how much English was used in the space program. Dad designed a few things for NASA programs and always used metric.

And, there's this... https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1999-oct-01-mn-17288-story.html

It's hard to avoid English when remodeling, as house parts are generally measured in feet and inches. I try to split the difference between Metric and English by using Engineering Scales, which are marked in inches and... tenths.

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