Sometimes I Despair of the Mainland

[Prokofy Neva]

On 1/14/2020 at 1:14 PM, Rufferta said:

Last night I was exploring an historic Mole Build, and I saw this huge sign on the edge of an adjoining sim.  When I flew closer to see what the sign was protecting a teleport orb gave me a 15-second warning. It made me sad to think how many new residents, exploring the Mainland, had probably run into something like this. I'm used to it by now.

When I checked for the owner, and started to add a note on their profile, I saw that I had been stuck on a ban line* on one of his properties in Corsica a few days before - again, the owner was within his rights, but this was in a narrow public sailing channel, and the banline (while on the edge of their property) was a few meters from an obvious property barrier. I did IM suggesting that the owner put up a marker buoy, but I'm not holding my breath for a response.

I love the Mainland, and I'm not leaving it, but sometimes I despair...

*experienced sailors probably know this, but I found that I could get out of the banline by editing my sailboat and moving away, then restarting it. 

 

Awful. Not only does he have the orbs, but he blights the view with this ugly sign. You wonder why he doesn't just get a private island if this is his attitude toward the world.

I really wish people who insist on ban lines, which of course are "within their rights," would create an easement of 16 or 32 m on their waterside properties. They could cut out a parcel that has no ban lines or orbs. That way you could pass more easily. If they put out a tip jar for doing this, I would donate to it in gratitude. Then they could ban the rest of their lot.

Yes, I realize, that a lot of orbs might not be set so precisely as to *not* cover a 16 or 32 m easement. But the worst offenders are those with no-access or list-only sort of ban lines which don't even allow the 10 or 15 seconds that an orb might allow. So it's especially for those people that I think the easement idea would be a good neighbourly solution.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 1/15/2020 at 4:09 AM, belindacarson said:

Always public roads for vehicle users, Public waterways for sailing, and open airspace for fliers.

 

 

Yet still moaning about people who pay for their small part of SL who want their privacy.......................

If only this were entirely true. But it isn't.

The Lindens did not carve out public waterways with an eye to preventing conflict in the future.

There are far too many areas that were sold out that are in odd places -- the middle of lakes, parts of rivers, etc.

So there might be Linden water -- but then it might be interrupted by resident land because of this poor demarcation.

Also some people have security orbs with distances set high so that they nab you just for passing on Linden water.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 1/15/2020 at 7:27 AM, ChinRey said:

The problem for sailors isn't ban lines as such, it's unmarked ban lines and also the "broken" waterways like the one sim in the Sansara-Heterocera channel that was sold off, the mess of public and private water along the east coast of Sansara and this mindboggling example of a 4 m long private stretch between two large bodies of public waters.

And the problem with mainland as a whole are overkill "solutions" like that ugly sign the OP showed us. It's a textbook example how relatively small issues are escalated into major conflicts (and eyesores).

There's never going to be any ban lines along the Windermere-Coniston-Langdale coast as long as I own the area but we do have a sim edge there and also of course sim borders and they cause similar problems. Here's my solution:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/mesh-navigational-buoys-boxed/6354579

and

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/SIM-CROSSING-BUOY-2/3567682

 

 

Exactly.

I hadn't seen that mind-boggling one before. Yeesh!

There's a stretch of the river in Keuka that is now impassable because of no-access lines and the Lindens have refused to terraform down their land there in this narrow passage to make it navigable again. I understand that they have to take a "what was done for one might have to be done for all" on these cases. But actually, are there really so many -- so many that people will file a ticket about? -- that they couldn't act to fix some of these really awful situations?

 

[Female Winslet]

People seem to have forgotten that when Bellisseria first opened up, ban lines were allowed and there were no security orb restrictions. It was people going to Linden Lab and asking for something to be done about the ban line/security orb problem that led to those restrictions being put announced not long after the continent opened up for residents to move in.  But it was AFTER the continent opened up, not before. People panicked and raged. And then a huge success happened. Even some of the people who said it would be a disaster have ended up thanking the lab for putting those restrictions in place.

I suggest that people who want to see this problem solved in the rest of mainland need to be telling the Lab that. I’m not the only one who says that, by the way. At SL16B, Ebbe Linden also said that he needed to hear from users if that is what they want. 

[Pussycat Catnap]

1 hour ago, Female Winslet said:

I suggest that people who want to see this problem solved in the rest of mainland need to be telling the Lab that. I’m not the only one who says that, by the way. At SL16B, Ebbe Linden also said that he needed to hear from users if that is what they want. 

I "could" counter that and say we've been asking this very thing for years...

BUT... as you note... they listened for Bellisseria. Newer heads might be in charge now and they might listen if we tried again...

They might not... but I do think it might be worth trying. Ask them to do it on a trial basis in a few select areas that seem good for it, like Bay City and Shermerville, and one area where it might be controversial - one of the 4 parts of Horizons.

- See the impact, and decide again in a month or two what to do...

 

Obviously they lack the resources to 'police' security orbs mainland wide... but they COULD turn off banlines with a covenant change as was done with Bellisseria...

And the LSL code that ejects people, could be altered in the core code to have a built in minimum timer when below 2000m... (or at any height... but then I'd be on the side arguing against it).

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Aethelwine]

I have said for a long time that aggressive orbs and banlines devalue otherwise attractive investment in mainland.

You find a parcel somewhere like the Central Rivers area of Sansara, it ticks all the boxes for you protected water access or road access, you check it out and the route to the sea of fables and beyond is clear... but even if clear for now there is nothing to stop someone downstream buying up a parcel putting up their security and especially if as happens their parcel extends over the visible waterways. Whilst technically with a third party viewer you will still be able to navigate the obstruction, it will be far from easily accessible and the joyful experience you were hoping to share with friends.. a big part of the reason for your investment in the first place is spoiled, the money spent feels wasted. The policy of allowing orbs and security limits the value of any investment because unobstructed access is partly at the whim of others outside your control. It deters investment in mainland for the majority.

If it is too much to change the the covenant for all of mainland or selected areas like the Central Rivers, then perhaps instead a reporting category could be put in place where we could report antisocial security next to protected waterways so that moles, or someone could lay down some buoys to mark out safe routes past them to keep traffic safe and mitigate the damage they cause to land values.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Aethelwine

[Aethelwine]

On 1/21/2020 at 5:09 PM, Pussycat Catnap said:

I actually think they should work the other way around: banlines should work only at max-build-elevation - 1000m up to max-build-elevation.

Avatar removal code below that height should only function after first sending the avatar in question a preset message 15-seconds earlier.

as in, the code that removes an avatar should be changed on the backend to, if height is below (max-build-elevation - 1000m) instead send a warning message (preset as in written by the lindens, not the users), and then start a counter. 15 seconds later it will do a removal if the avatar is still present.

 

I like that idea.. I initially started thinking that the banline working the other way around, ie glowing inside the parcel and only blocking the owner from moving out was what you were going to say.. and so pleased with that image I didn't read much further.

But your idea is very good. If an owner wants security like they have now then your option affords it to them without spoiling the area for their neighbours.

[Pussycat Catnap]

2 hours ago, Aethelwine said:

I initially started thinking that the banline working the other way around, ie glowing inside the parcel and only blocking the owner from moving out was what you were going to say.. and so pleased with that image I didn't read much further.

I like this.

They'd never do it...

But: 'banlines' to ban yourself from the outside world... 😛

 

But yeah... I think banlines should work from top down, instead of the current bottom up, or just be disabled as an outdated feature.

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

So here's my "that will never happen" silly banline system.

If we could get some sweet justice all up in this place, banlines would:

• Ban anyone with the power to sell a lot from being able to leave it.
  • Can't walk out or TP out or even get out by trying to log in to a different location.
• Be visible from the inside with no ability to disable that. Colored magenta, and glow at max glow.
• Be visible from the outside as an option only
• Bounce scripted items off of them with a direction change to any current moment of the exact opposite direction
  • Make a loud annoying sound INSIDE the parcel EVERY FREAKING TIME a scripted object that has avatar passengers bounces off the banlines
    • This sound would include the words "OMG, IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN !!!" as 'Shatner-Style spoken word poetry' voiced by Jaleel White using the voice of his character Steve Urkel
      • Because that has to happen
  • Randomly break the scripts of one object inside the parcel, randomly TP another object to random coords on a random region within 1-10 regions of the current region, logging out any avatar that might be using that object.
    • Because sweet sweet revenge
• Work to block people outside only from 2000m up to max height. But work to lock IN people with 'land sell power' from 1-infinity height.

 

We could rename them 'justicelines'

😛

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap