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Cashing out in mid January 2020?


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I am not cashing out any longer so I am wanting some input on the current state of transferring USD balances to Paypal. Still a couple of days and all going smoothly?  

Asking because there are some major issues in Sansar and wondering if that is filtering over here. Thanks for any info. Hoping it is positive.  

 

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Karma, quite to the contrary, your information is more secure within Tilia.  It is certainly encrypted.  Soft Linden wrote a blog about it, describing the additional layers of protection built in to t

I just add something on here to help clarify this, because there is still some debate by residents about whether they are legally required to give Tilia their SSN, or whether Tilia is exceeding a lega

According to another thread of yesterday and conversations with SL friends that have sent money to Paypal out monthly for many years, it appears that everyone (including those long verified) is having

25 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

I'd imagine they put a freeze on cashing out in Sansar to prevent its "economy" from collapsing, especially after recent news, heh.

Well I guess I missed the "recent news".   What are you referring to?

 

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The only odd thing is that when I cashed out the other day — I think when I processed credit — they asked me for all my RL info again. I think it was the third time they have done that. 

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34 minutes ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

The layoffs, the focus on events instead of world/avatar building tools, etc.

Ahhh. OK. I thought I had missed something. By now (over there) that is OLD news LOL. Thanks. 

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Just now, Pamela Galli said:

The only odd thing is that when I cashed out the other day — I think when I processed credit — they asked me for all my RL info again. I think it was the third time they have done that. 

Nothing to do with my original question but did you  have to give them your SSN?  Again, though you likely made way more money than I did so that might have always been part of YOUR deal LOL.   

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Just now, Chic Aeon said:

Nothing to do with my original question but did you  have to give them your SSN?  Again, though you likely made way more money than I did so that might have always been part of YOUR deal LOL.   

Yes, they asked for my SSN. Don’t think I have any deal with them, and I haven’t done anything different or cashed out more than usual.

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2 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

Yes, they asked for my SSN. Don’t think I have any deal with them, and I haven’t done anything different or cashed out more than usual.

OK. Thanks. For awhile they only needed your SSN if you made more than 20,000 (at least that SEEMED to be the case). When Tilia first came into being I had a message in my backend that I was good to go and that they didn't need any more info. Then that changed.  Never cashed out and never added info OR agreed to Tilia TOS and privacy policy. So I don't actually KNOW if that note was correct or not.    Just like to keep abreast as to what is the current process.  :D

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2 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

Yes, they asked for my SSN. Don’t think I have any deal with them, and I haven’t done anything different or cashed out more than usual.

Did the page for additional information take 3 hours and still not load?  This is no way to run a business!!

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No it popped right up when I started processing credit, they just wanted my basic info. In the past I had to send a bunch of stuff and prove how I got the money,

Also I cash out the same amount each time, and about the same total each month, so it wasn't me triggering anything.

Edited by Pamela Galli
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Hey everyone,

It does astound me how the people at LL just don't consider their users. Why would you stop all transfers on a business regularly transferring money, just because you need info? Would it not be a TON smarter, to just inform your user, and tell them they have a month to get the info to them, before any action is taken?

Seriously, it is like they think nobody needs the money.

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4 hours ago, Pixieplumb Flanagan said:

Did the page for additional information take 3 hours and still not load?  This is no way to run a business!!

Most likely blocking software.  None of my regular browsers would work when I went to look. I had to use Edge which has NO SECURITY or blocking on it in order to see the page. Others reported the same thing -- this back in July.  

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12 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Most likely blocking software.  None of my regular browsers would work when I went to look. I had to use Edge which has NO SECURITY or blocking on it in order to see the page. Others reported the same thing -- this back in July.  

Chic I love you!!  So annoying that they can't let us know stuff like this.  anyway, done now.  sheesh.

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22 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

No it popped right up when I started processing credit, they just wanted my basic info. In the past I had to send a bunch of stuff and prove how I got the money,

Also I cash out the same amount each time, and about the same total each month, so it wasn't me triggering anything.

 Talked to another friend this morning and she had the same thing happen with what she thought were "odd" questions. She is in Europe so may have had different questions OR not having some of the US info that would seem strange. She had been cashing out all along but the "redo info" page came up for her too.  

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Hi,

I am reaching out anyone else who cashes out lindens into a papypal account. After providing my basic information to become premium member (name, address, credit card) I was of course asked to provide more information, (provide driver's license) to Tilia when i tried to withdraw Lindens. That was over three months ago and took about two days and I was verified. I typically withdraw about 20000L per month.
Just this week, i tried to withdraw lindens into my paypal account that they have on file, and received a notice that the order was placed on hold so that Tilia could very my account and they requested more information. The information requested was:

Driver's license photo
Photo of recent utility bill
Photo of second form of ID
Photo of social security card or tax document with SS number on it
Date of Birth.

In your experience, Is this standard procedure? To say this seemed a bit "excessive" is an understatement. My physical bank has never requested some of this info and certainly no online business ever has. Also, a process that took 48 hours before is now stretching into a week. LL basically now has every thing they need on file to duplicate me online. Of course they wouldn't but what about the crazy Kurdistan hacker who will inevitably get this information?   I am curious, if you cash out Lindens of any amount,  has this process been similar for you?

Edited by Karma Avedon
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1 hour ago, Karma Avedon said:

Hi,

I am reaching out anyone else who cashes out lindens into a papypal account. After providing my basic information to become premium member (name, address, credit card) I was of course asked to provide more information, (provide driver's license) to Tilia when i tried to withdraw Lindens. That was over three months ago and took about two days and I was verified. I typically withdraw about 20000L per month.
Just this week, i tried to withdraw lindens into my paypal account that they have on file, and received a notice that the order was placed on hold so that Tilia could very my account and they requested more information. The information requested was:

Driver's license photo
Photo of recent utility bill
Photo of second form of ID
Photo of social security card or tax document with SS number on it
Date of Birth.

In your experience, Is this standard procedure? To say this seemed a bit "excessive" is an understatement. My physical bank has never requested some of this info and certainly no online business ever has. Also, a process that took 48 hours before is now stretching into a week. LL basically now has every thing they need on file to duplicate me online. Of course they wouldn't but what about the crazy Kurdistan hacker who will inevitably get this information?   I am curious, if you cash out Lindens of any amount,  has this process been similar for you?

Not sure if this is helpful but as a bit of background:

This is dependent on which country you are in, but let's assume USA.     Any bank opening an account for you would require similar ID to the above, and all would require your date of birth, social security number and photo ID.  If your photo ID has an address on it (e.g. DL versus Passport) they may be flexible on the second proof of address* but see below on why this is.

Tilia are simply complying with regulations like the Patriot Act etc to ensure you are whom you say you are.    It may be a bit unusual to provide a photo of the social security card - but I suspect this is due to the fact they are not running a credit check to validate your identity when you cash out, so this is their method to validate it's a correct SSN / *address (utility bill)  versus running a check directly.   Tilia is registered via FinCen and an "exchange".    As a result they are defined as a Money Service Business and had to implement a risk-based know-your-customer (KYC) and anti-money-laundering (AML) program, and also file suspicious activity reports (SARs) where warranted. (Linden Research Inc. was also registered prior to Tilia).

The regulation around virtual currency is tightening up, for example this year Americans will see on their tax returns a specific question around any dealings they have had in virtual currency.       

I suspect we will see a regular requirement to refresh our ID information with Tilia (e.g. once every x amount of  years) as they are also required to ensure they revalidate information during the life of your relationship with them.

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3 hours ago, Karma Avedon said:

Hi,

I am reaching out anyone else who cashes out lindens into a papypal account. After providing my basic information to become premium member (name, address, credit card) I was of course asked to provide more information, (provide driver's license) to Tilia when i tried to withdraw Lindens. That was over three months ago and took about two days and I was verified. I typically withdraw about 20000L per month.
Just this week, i tried to withdraw lindens into my paypal account that they have on file, and received a notice that the order was placed on hold so that Tilia could very my account and they requested more information. The information requested was:

Driver's license photo
Photo of recent utility bill
Photo of second form of ID
Photo of social security card or tax document with SS number on it
Date of Birth.

In your experience, Is this standard procedure? To say this seemed a bit "excessive" is an understatement. My physical bank has never requested some of this info and certainly no online business ever has. Also, a process that took 48 hours before is now stretching into a week. LL basically now has every thing they need on file to duplicate me online. Of course they wouldn't but what about the crazy Kurdistan hacker who will inevitably get this information?   I am curious, if you cash out Lindens of any amount,  has this process been similar for you?

 

According to another thread of yesterday and conversations with SL friends that have sent money to Paypal out monthly for many years, it appears that everyone (including those long verified) is having to resubmit this info to Tilia.   It is very unclear that this is a lawfully mandated move since I have never had to verify myself in this manner with any other RL institutions  -- this in areas where there is MUCH more money involved. 

But it is their platform and if we want to stay we play by their rules.  

As most folks know by now I no longer cash out to Paypal or even trade in lindens for USD balance because I definitely did NOT  and do not agree with this policy.  

 

And yes, I am in the United States.  There are VERY few places that you are required by US law to give people your SSN. You can look that up in Google.  Anyone can "ask" for it. There is a difference there. 

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9 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

 I am in the United States.  There are VERY few places that you are required by US law to give people your SSN.

I just add something on here to help clarify this, because there is still some debate by residents about whether they are legally required to give Tilia their SSN, or whether Tilia is exceeding a legal requirement in asking residents for their SSN

Tilia is required by US law to obtain the SSN of its account holders

as in the USA a person's social security number (SSN) is also their individual taxpayer identification number (TIN)

on page 65 of the MSB Examination Manual which covers USA Bank Secrecy / Anti-Money Laundering, issued by the US Treasury, it says:

"Currency dealers or exchangers are required to make and retain additional records.
 - A currency dealer or exchanger is required to secure and maintain a record of the taxpayer identification number of each person who opens a transaction account or is extended a line of credit within 30 days after an account is opened or credit line extended.
 - If the person is a non-resident alien, a record of the person’s passport number or description of some other government document used to verify identity is required."

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/shared/MSB_Exam_Manual.pdf

Tilia is for the purposes of this Act a currency dealer/exchanger. A 3rd party which facilitates the transmission of money between Linden Lab (the 1st party) and residents (the 2nd party)

the 3rd party relationship to the 1st (LL) and 2nd parties (residents) is further detailed in this document also issued by the US Treasury:

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN Guidance CVC FINAL 508.pdf

 

because of all this then Tilia asks of its Tilia account holders, the minimum required by law

 

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22 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

 

According to another thread of yesterday and conversations with SL friends that have sent money to Paypal out monthly for many years, it appears that everyone (including those long verified) is having to resubmit this info to Tilia.   It is very unclear that this is a lawfully mandated move since I have never had to verify myself in this manner with any other RL institutions  -- this in areas where there is MUCH more money involved. 

But it is their platform and if we want to stay we play by their rules.  

As most folks know by now I no longer cash out to Paypal or even trade in lindens for USD balance because I definitely did NOT  and do not agree with this policy.  

 

And yes, I am in the United States.  There are VERY few places that you are required by US law to give people your SSN. You can look that up in Google.  Anyone can "ask" for it. There is a difference there. 

Out of interest, what type of RL institutions are you talking about?

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2 hours ago, Charlotte Bartlett said:

Out of interest, what type of RL institutions are you talking about?

Financial institutions such as money markets. They do have my SSN (which of course stated for many years that it was NOT to be used for identification -- irony there) but they have never asked for a current utility bill etc and I do not need to go through any steps each year to continue to "prove" who I am.   Perhaps they should be doing that, but they are not -- this in four cases. 

 

 

So far as the "mandatory" SSN information -- there ARE a few places where you ARE required by US law to give your SSN. 

Quote

 

The Social Security Administration website has a pretty ample list of the places where you are required to provide a SSN including:

IRS for tax returns and federal loans

Employers for wage and tax reporting

Employers enrolled in E-Verify

States for the school lunch program

Banks for monetary transactions

Veterans Administration as a hospital admission number

Department of Labor for workers’ compensation

Department of Education for Student Loans

States to administer any tax, general public assistance, motor vehicle or drivers license law

States for child support enforcement

States for commercial drivers’ licenses

States for Food Stamps

States for Medicaid

States for Unemployment Compensation

States for Temporary Assistance to Needy Families

U.S. Treasury for U.S. Savings Bonds

 

 

The bottom line is still of course just how much you want to transfer that money out of SL.  And if you are comfortable with them having that information, then great.  

 

 

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I just want my money out of second life. I went to Opensim and its great! I don't need some off the wall company to steal my identity. It is definitely not worth that kind of threat for 60 bucks. I transfer bank to bank in RL all the time and no one asks me for my ssn. There has to be another way as i see from reading it here, there are too many ppl not willing to have their identity stolen. no wonder SL is declining. Many designers are leaving because of these policies. So we cant have any LL forever if we hand out ssn over to this company , whoever they are, or they will charge us fees until all of our LL is gone.. 

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