When Did it Become Acceptable to Bring Politic of Hate into SL?

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

26 week average waiting periods

Myth. Waiting periods are not that long.

But if this is true, you have to consider the poor in the US that can't even get in the line. And consider why this is so.

 

[Seicher Rae]

3 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Kindly give me a nice long list of non-despotic socialist regimes.  Real socialists, not mere nanny states of Europe.  I can add Chavez and Castro and Kim to mine, so I'm at, what, 8?  And I'm not even counting all the lesser known ones, like the socialist party of Mongolia, which attempted to extirpate their national hero, Chinggis Khan, from their history.

/me blinks.

Um. "Real" socialists. Well, then you get into a long discussion about what is and isn't socialism. The fact is, every country in Europe and North America and a whole slew of other places, practices some form of socialism. Bernie and others, even Trump, practice some form of socialism. My logic still stands: Some socialists are despots. Not all socialists are despots. Add to that: Not all despots are socialists.

C'mon.

[Luna Bliss]

Tolya, it's very apparent you are triggered by 'socialism', and have fears of some lazy person getting an education on your dime (as you stated earlier).  But what do you propose as the economic system by which the US should govern?   I'm afraid Capitalism isn't doing very well...something about the smoke near my daughters apartment and the fact that I can barely afford my increasing home insurance premium contributes to this belief.

[Tolya Ugajin]

1 minute ago, Seicher Rae said:

/me blinks.

Um. "Real" socialists. Well, then you get into a long discussion about what is and isn't socialism. The fact is, every country in Europe and North America and a whole slew of other places, practices some form of socialism. Bernie and others, even Trump, practice some form of socialism. My logic still stands: Some socialists are despots. Not all socialists are despots. Add to that: Not all despots are socialists.

C'mon.

The Prime Minister of Denmark disagrees with you as to whether or not Denmark, et. al. are socialist countries:

https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist

Having unemployment insurance and social security and health care mandates do not make a nation "socialist", to say nothing of the moronic argument that public highways are "socialist".  So, by all means, "c'mon".

[Selene Gregoire]

4 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

/me blinks.

Um. "Real" socialists. Well, then you get into a long discussion about what is and isn't socialism. The fact is, every country in Europe and North America and a whole slew of other places, practices some form of socialism. Bernie and others, even Trump, practice some form of socialism. My logic still stands: Some socialists are despots. Not all socialists are despots. Add to that: Not all despots are socialists.

C'mon.

Socialism worked extremely well for First Nations peoples until genocide and assimilation came along.

[Lyssa Greymoon]

18 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

If you don't understand that he was a socialist, then you are unusually ignorant. 

I didn't get my history degree from Prager U.

[Tolya Ugajin]

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Myth. Waiting periods are not that long.

But if this is true, you have to consider the poor in the US that can't even get in the line. And consider why this is so.

 

Oh FFS do you even bother to do a little research?  Here, take an actual Canadian's word for it:

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-canadas-medical-wait-times-are-unacceptable

You can easily go from this piece (which took me precisely 11 second to find, along with similar pieces from Forbes, and a dozen other sources), and review the studies they are quoting.

[Seicher Rae]

16 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

The Prime Minister of Denmark disagrees with you as to whether or not Denmark, et. al. are socialist countries:

https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist

Having unemployment insurance and social security and health care mandates do not make a nation "socialist", to say nothing of the moronic argument that public highways are "socialist".  So, by all means, "c'mon".

I'm not going to get into a war of competing links. For the one from the Danish PM you gave, I could give you twenty that say otherwise.

You know where you stated that when one starts calling the other side names, like evil, there is no more room for debate? That goes to using words like "moronic" too. If you believe those to be moronic points then you need to go back and read some more. You're entitled to your opinions, not your own facts. I tried to be civil and meet you on common ground, but to be called moronic, well... yeah, nah. I'll do an IQ comparison with anyone here.

ETA: Before you pounce on it: You did not explicitly call me a moron, but you implicitly did, and you know it because you are not a moron.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Seicher Rae

[Beth Macbain]

"The Fraser study estimated the private costs incurred by the more than one million Canadians waiting for medically necessary treatment last year at $2.1 billion, or an average of $1,924 per patient, due to lost wages and reduced work productivity."

Private costs - $2,000. $2,000. 

$2,000!!!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

The mere fact that Canadians find that unacceptable is a prime example of just why we need universal healthcare. You can't get a cold in the US without it costing $2,000 WITH insurance. Oh dear, the Canadians have to wait a few months for a hip replacement?? Guess what?? This insured American would have to wait a few decades if I need a hip replacement unless I want to go bankrupt. 

[Luna Bliss]

14 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

socialist

So what system is best to use for governing America, or the world for that matter ??

[Luna Bliss]

12 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

23 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Myth. Waiting periods are not that long.

But if this is true, you have to consider the poor in the US that can't even get in the line. And consider why this is so.

 

Oh FFS do you even bother to do a little research?  Here, take an actual Canadian's word for it:

People die in the US each year...40,000 of them...because they can't afford health insurance. And they have to file for bankruptcy , often ruining their lives for years to come if they ever do recover financially. People commit suicide over financial ruin.

But you are concerned because some Canadians have to wait awhile for non-life-threatening interventions?  And you tout this as a reason why we should not have a more Canadian-type system of health care???

Edited January 7, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Seicher Rae]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

People die in the US each year...40,000 of them...because they lack insurance.

But you are concerned because some Canadians have to wait awhile for non-life-threatening interventions?  And you tout this as a reason why we should not have a more Canadian-type system of health care???

Purely anecdotal this but: I know a lot of Canadians. Every single one of them gripes about something to do with their health care system. But every single one of them will shout with a horrified NO if you ask them: Would you rather have the American version?

[missyrideout]

20 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Oh FFS do you even bother to do a little research?  Here, take an actual Canadian's word for it:

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-canadas-medical-wait-times-are-unacceptable

You can easily go from this piece (which took me precisely 11 second to find, along with similar pieces from Forbes, and a dozen other sources), and review the studies they are quoting.

An actual Canadian editorial in one of our most conservative papers.... 

[Luna Bliss]

Tolya appears to have disappeared, so I will be a Trumper now...lol

Well, these people who are insured actually WORKED for it, unlike the other lazy people....we hard-working, real Amercian, God-loving ones DESERVE it.  This is what is FAIR, not this "equality" that you liberals tout!

* the bold part is when I become a Trumper

Edited January 7, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Scylla Rhiadra]

18 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Oh FFS do you even bother to do a little research?  Here, take an actual Canadian's word for it:

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editorials/editorial-canadas-medical-wait-times-are-unacceptable

You can easily go from this piece (which took me precisely 11 second to find, along with similar pieces from Forbes, and a dozen other sources), and review the studies they are quoting.

Lol citing the Toronto Sun.

Allow me to respond with an incisive quote about American politics from the National Enquirer. 

There are lots of things wrong with Canadian Medicare. It's chronically underfunded, and it does not currently include pharmacare. (That's coming: in fact the last Ontario Liberal government had begun to implement it when they were defeated in the last provincial election -- for reasons that had nothing to do with prescription coverage.) Wait times for non-critical and elective surgeries are unquestionably too long (because of underfunding). But your 26 week quote is an absurdly reductive and misleading number. If you need immediate critical care, you get it . . . Immediately. 

We also spend, as a nation, much less on healthcare than Americans: our system is much more efficient.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

It's an index of how Canadians feel about their healthcare that, when polled about 15 years ago about the "greatest Canadian" of the last century, a majority chose Tommy Douglas -- the Saskatchewan socialist premier who first introduced it.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/tommy-douglas-crowned-greatest-canadian-1.510403

To a surprising degree, our healthcare system is how we define ourselves nationally. (And you can google that.)

[Beth Macbain]

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well, these people who are insured actually WORKED for it, unlike the other lazy people....we hard-working, real Amercian, God-loving ones DESERVE it.  This is what is FAIR, not this "equality" that you liberals tout!

Sorry, that doesn't pass the smell test. You said "liberals" instead of "libtards". 

You can't even fake being one of them! 😋

[Tolya Ugajin]

33 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

I'm not going to get into a war of competing links. For the one from the Danish PM you gave, I could give you twenty that say otherwise.

You know where you stated that when one starts calling the other side names, like evil, there is no more room for debate? That goes to using words like "moronic" too. If you believe those to be moronic points then you need to go back and read some more. You're entitled to your opinions, not your own facts. I tried to be civil and meet you on common ground, but to be called moronic, well... yeah, nah. I'll do an IQ comparison with anyone here.

ETA: Before you pounce on it: You did not explicitly call me a moron, but you implicitly did, and you know it because you are not a moron.

You are correct - I should have said "misinformed", my apologies.  Trying to fend off a feeding frenzy of "socialism-lite" (my new term for Bernie supporters, just coined it now) sharks has made me testy, and besides I'm supposed to be working, so gonna withdraw from the debate and see if I can find a way to slash 20 more jobs and boost my profit sharing <insert evil capitalist cackle here>

My highest test was 197, most came in the 140-150 range.  But, I'm not sure it's a matter of IQ or just being really good at taking tests.  I'm clearly a moron in some ways.

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Sorry, that doesn't pass the smell test. You said "liberals" instead of "libtards". 

You can't even fake being one of them! 😋

lol this makes me wonder....is it a forum reportable offense if I flame myself?  🤣

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Trying to fend off a feeding frenzy of "socialism-lite" (my new term for Bernie supporters, just coined it now) sharks has made me testy

 

[Tolya Ugajin]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Lol citing the Toronto Sun.

Allow me to respond with an incisive quote about American politics from the National Enquirer. 

There are lots of things wrong with Canadian Medicare. It's chronically underfunded, and it does not currently include pharmacare. (That's coming: in fact the last Ontario Liberal government had begun to implement it when they were defeated in the last provincial election -- for reasons that had nothing to do with prescription coverage.) Wait times for non-critical and elective surgeries are unquestionably too long (because of underfunding). But your 26 week quote is an absurdly reductive and misleading number. If you need immediate critical care, you get it . . . Immediately. 

We also spend, as a nation, much less on healthcare than Americans: our system is much more efficient.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

It's an index of how Canadians feel about their healthcare that, when polled about 15 years ago about the "greatest Canadian" of the last century, a majority chose Tommy Douglas -- the Saskatchewan socialist premier who first introduced it.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/tommy-douglas-crowned-greatest-canadian-1.510403

To a surprising degree, our healthcare system is how we define ourselves nationally. (And you can google that.)

Fine, here is the same thing from Forbes.  Happy now?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2018/06/11/canadians-are-one-in-a-million-while-waiting-for-medical-treatment/#119e9c623e7d

I merely preferred the juxtaposition of using the Sun.

BTW - you get immediate critical care in the US as well - it's the law, and it's hardly "absurdly reductive and misleading" considering the 26 weeks was very well stated to be for things like hip replacements.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to the pharmacy and pick up a 90 day supply of blood pressure medication for $6.  My Canadian fiance pays $90 (so, about $70 USD) for the same thing at half the dosage.  I just got back from the dentist to start on a crown that will cost me $500.  Her recent crown was roughly $3,000 (so, $2,400 USD roughly).  All things considered, I like the US system better, thanks.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

9 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to the pharmacy and pick up a 90 day supply of blood pressure medication for $6.  My Canadian fiance pays $90 (so, about $70 USD) for the same thing at half the dosage.  I just got back from the dentist to start on a crown that will cost me $500.  Her recent crown was roughly $3,000 (so, $2,400 USD roughly).  All things considered, I like the US system better, thanks.

"This statistic displays the patented drug average price ratio of foreign to Canada, as of 2017. The ratio of prices in the United States to Canada was 3.21, which indicates that the prices of patented drugs in United states were very high when compared to Canada."

https://www.statista.com/statistics/496169/price-ratio-canadia-to-foreign-drug-prices/

[Seicher Rae]

13 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

You are correct - I should have said "misinformed", my apologies.  Trying to fend off a feeding frenzy of "socialism-lite" (my new term for Bernie supporters, just coined it now) sharks has made me testy, and besides I'm supposed to be working, so gonna withdraw from the debate and see if I can find a way to slash 20 more jobs and boost my profit sharing <insert evil capitalist cackle here>

My highest test was 197, most came in the 140-150 range.  But, I'm not sure it's a matter of IQ or just being really good at taking tests.  I'm clearly a moron in some ways.

And "misinformed" is also incorrect. Go back to read what socialism is. Self-titling something socialism-lite does not make something so. Even if correct, it is still socialism. 

IQ tests vary from era to era and country to country. I'm suspecting that a score of 197 was an outlier from a non-standard test, or from a test substantially different from the ones where you got the 140-150s. I put very little stock in such tests, they are only useful to a point, and yes, in some ways they only test your ability to take tests. I have found no need to take more than the one that was required of us in high school, which was a long time ago, and so I have forgotten the exact score but it was between 161 and 163 inclusively. The piece of paper is still around, in some box in a box in a storage place. I will just take you at face value and your word about you being a moron in some ways.

[Theresa Tennyson]

19 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to the pharmacy and pick up a 90 day supply of blood pressure medication for $6.  My Canadian fiance pays $90 (so, about $70 USD) for the same thing at half the dosage.  I just got back from the dentist to start on a crown that will cost me $500.  Her recent crown was roughly $3,000 (so, $2,400 USD roughly).  All things considered, I like the US system better, thanks.

And how much do you/your employer pay for health insurance?

[Beth Macbain]

2 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

I'm suspecting that a score of 197 was an outlier from a non-standard test

It was a Buzzfeed quiz.

[Beth Macbain]

25 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to the pharmacy and pick up a 90 day supply of blood pressure medication for $6.  My Canadian fiance pays $90 (so, about $70 USD) for the same thing at half the dosage.

Not all blood pressure medicines are identical. Somehow I don't think the two of you are taking the same thing.