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Samie Bagley

When Did it Become Acceptable to Bring Politic of Hate into SL?

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In these last two days, I had encounters with Trump supporters who filled their profiles with hateful messages. Specifically, profile pictures showing gun violence, groups promoting lies that were discredit by US and UK intelligence, and groups promoting violence toward others. All were reported to LL.

As a result of these encounter and awareness of LL's permissible attitude toward the introduction of politics of hate in SL, I am no longer a premium member. I refuse to financially support an organization that allows the spewing of hate as evidenced by my encounters with MAGATS.

I am deeply disappointed at LL's lack of action in the insertion of politics into SL, and even more disappointed with the LL's inaction toward the infusion of politics of hate in SL.  I am wondering of anyone else has had similar experiences and how people have handled/reacted/felt in these situations. 

 

Best regards,

 

-Pebbles

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Politics in general has always been present within Second Life and like it or not, if it does not violate the ToS or CS then they will not take any action whatsoever. Furthermore even if they do take action, you're not going to be notified about it.

To answer your wonderment: I shake my head, ignore/mute/block such individuals, report the most egregious examples and move on with my Second Life.

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6 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

To answer your wonderment: I shake my head, ignore/mute/block such individuals, report the most egregious examples and move on with my Second Life.

That's a good attitude. I may have "cut my nose despite my face" by reacting so fast and cancelling my premium membership.  

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Yep, I just mute 'em. If only it were so easy in RL.

Granted, that doesn't solve the problem of political signage next door. In one particular case I could get them removed because they're quite flagrantly encroaching on the SLRR, but I figure it would somehow escalate. They're not going to have a sudden blue epiphany just because Governance sends their Steyn/Bork/Levin propaganda back to Lost+Found. Also the parcel is for sale so I suspect they're just "deplorable for profit."

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My mama always told me two things not to discuss at the dinner table were religion and politics and I think that should extend out into the world as well as into this virtual one we have here.

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Posted (edited)

I'm more suprised that you ever thought people would leave their opinions (and therefore also their political views) 'at the door' when entering SL. Why should they do that? You sound like someone wondering why people are kinky in SL. People are people and some of them will be assholes, will be racist, xenophobic, bigots or convinced a bunch of conspiracy theories are true.

But what even more suprises me, are the conclusions you draw in LLs role in all of this. The simple presence of people expressing their questionable political views or political views in general is not an indication that LL supports them. Thats like saying you encountered lots of griefers in a sandbox today and that must therefore mean LL supports griefers or you ran into hostile people, why aren't hostile people allowed by the TOS?

Online culture and especially american culture is probably at a point, where political orientations are much more divided and people are (generally) much more vocal about absolutly everything that goes through their head (see any modern social media ever). And that just slowly carries over into SL.

If you ever feel anything you encounter violates the TOS, try to report it. LL may or may not take action and they won't notice its there unless someone reports it. For everything else I'll go with Solars approach: Block them'. Personally I haven't encountered anything of what you describe. The most political thing I saw last month was an ugly box, textured with Trump advertisement on someones parcel.

 

Edited by Syo Emerald
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2 minutes ago, Sorciaa said:

not to discuss at the dinner table were religion and politics

Very wise ❤️

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4 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

But what even more suprises me, are the conclusions you draw in LLs role in all of this. The simple presence of people expressing their questionable political views or political views in general is not an indication that LL supports them.

Chuckles, "and so am I." I think that may be the reason I posted here, to get some objective feedback. I agree I had a strong/extreme reaction in this situation which supports you point about how we all may bring our political views into sl. Thanks for your reply ❤️

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Samie Bagley said:

That's a good attitude. I may have "cut my nose despite my face" by reacting so fast and cancelling my premium membership.  

It is an attitude I carried over from old school chat rooms and MMOs. It should be noted that some of these types act the way they do precisely so they can have administrative action taken and can thus pretend to be validated by a "breach of their freedoms" ....

In many ways they are quite similar to the sort that comes into the forum, starts a potentially contentious thread and then complains about "off topic" responses/demands a specific type of response (among many other things) and then gets huffy when the nature of a forum is pointed out to them - some even going so far as to report their own thread or dial things up to eleven in an attempt to get the thread locked/deleted.

Edited by Solar Legion
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I definitely bring my political views into SL -- in fact, I'm an admin for an avowedly left-wing political group in-world, and run a couple of feminist ones -- but even I know better than to overreact to the nastiness of what some people put into their profiles. There's not much point in engaging with such people, because, really, you aren't going to achieve anything by doing so.

In the final analysis, you can do more (if "doing something" is what you want) by being a positive and rational voice, and an exemplar for the things in which you believe. Be the change you want to see, right? And if that change represents something positive and open and accepting of difference, then you'll be doing more for your "cause" than any amount of shouting or AR-filing can ever achieve.

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Ah: but I've spent 10+ years trying to warn you of the rising tide of fascism and racism on SL, only to meet with non-stop abuse and endless attempts to gaslight me (some of those responsible are still scuttling around this forum)...


Even worse, I've experienced hostility from LL - I expect Jagix The Apathetic will pull my posts a million times before he even dreams of leaving his beanbag to DO SOMETHING about inworld fascism and racism. No wonder so few POC sign up...why would they want to be subjected to country clubs with confederate flags, nazi slime openly putting the N-word in their profiles, or sickos starting threads about how its so funny tee hee hee! to don digital blackface...?


But I won't stand by in silence and tolerate it. 

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Posted (edited)

I'll say this, I have seen people on both sides of the political spectrum on Second Life, from nicest to the more extreme. Political opinions are like butt holes, everyone has one and they all stink.

However it is important to note, no matter what political opinion someone has, Linden Lab does not endorse or support said opinion. Just because one person is spewing hate, does not mean that Linden Lab supports that. Linden Lab has no control over what users say, but they can punish them afterwards. Controlling what users say would result in censorship/filters which would be very harmful to the virtual world.

From what I have seen, Linden Lab likes to take a very neutral/centristic point of view when handling abuse reports and allowing residents to have a freedom of speech and opinion. However they don't support hate speech, it is important to understand what hate speech constitutes as according to Linden Lab. To do this, we have to look at the Community Standards. In specific, we will look at the "Intolerance" section(This section may change at a later date, please refer to the Community Standards for the most up to date version).

Quote

Linden Lab encourages social interactions between users across multiple countries. The use of derogatory or demeaning language or images based on race, ethnicity, gender, religion or sexual orientation is prohibited. Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame users or groups are similarly prohibited.  

My interpretation of this means:

  • You can have what ever opinions you want, be popular or unpopular.
  • However said opinions may not be used to attack or belittle groups.

For example, "I think <x group> is going too far with their politics" can be OK, but "Eradicate all <x group>" is not OK. Of course context really does matter in this situation and it is a very touchy situation because some stuff can be seen as offensive to others, while not offensive to others.

The Content Guidelines has additional information which basically says the same thing but worded to legally cover content seen in world.

Additionally, Linden Lab could have taken action, but you just don't see it. Linden Lab treats privacy really seriously, so if someone got warned, you won't be informed. Only the person who has been warned will know and it is up to said user to disclose if they were warned.

Edited by Chaser Zaks
Grammar, clarifications, content guidelines info.
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I see that it did not take long for a shining example of the sort that can be safely ignored to come along ...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Samie Bagley said:

In these last two days, I had encounters with Trump supporters who filled their profiles with hateful messages. Specifically, profile pictures showing gun violence, groups promoting lies that were discredit by US and UK intelligence, and groups promoting violence toward others. All were reported to LL.

As a result of these encounter and awareness of LL's permissible attitude toward the introduction of politics of hate in SL, I am no longer a premium member. I refuse to financially support an organization that allows the spewing of hate as evidenced by my encounters with MAGATS.

I am deeply disappointed at LL's lack of action in the insertion of politics into SL, and even more disappointed with the LL's inaction toward the infusion of politics of hate in SL.  I am wondering of anyone else has had similar experiences and how people have handled/reacted/felt in these situations. 

 

Best regards,

 

-Pebbles

You have a last name, which means that you have been here since at least early 2009 -- and you are just now noticing this. 

LL is not going to ban politics.  Not to mention that typically when someone wants something banned - like politics - what they really want is a ban of any political stuff that they do not agree with.  Yeah, folks from all sides of politics are guilty of that.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Yeah, folks from all sides of politics is guilty of that.

Yeah, but one side is correct (my side, of course) and the other side is wrong. 

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Oooook so who is the problem here?

I don't  live in the USA and (any) politics has NOTHING, - absolutely ->NOTHING<- to do with my SL and never will.

 

3a1381cd7d81e48c22fc196b50ec160f.jpg

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Just now, Maryanne Solo said:

I don't  live in the USA and (any) politics has NOTHING, - absolutely ->NOTHING<- to do with my SL and never will.

That's fine for you, but for others it has a lot to do with their SL.

We all have different interests and usually there are others in SL with those same interests. That's one of the things that makes SL amazing. 

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  • Themed SciFi group opened a second chat group especially meant for political "talk" and "discussion" ... aka flame wars, but whatever... with the intend to keep the main group clean
  • People kept slamming their heads in the main group and ignored subtle hints like, "take it to the special group!"
  • People kept "debating", including the group admin
  • People interested in the original topic lost interest and left the main group

If you search for it, you'll find it. Vice versa, don't force your crap upon me if the stage is not yours.

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Basically everyone has a political Opinion and asking for Politics to not be discussed in SL is about as effective as safe spaces in Collages. ( Yeah I said it ) IF SL were to be like that then the things you want talked about ( Racism, Homophobia, Transphobia, Sexism, ect ) could not be discussed either and I honestly 100% believe that if you cannot be a adult and use that thing called a brain and want to be babied you shouldn't be on the internet at all. 


*****ty people are EVERYWHERE.  Throwing a coat of paint over it ( AKA banning all political discourse on SL ) will not make it go away... those people will still hate you and me and anyone who does not fit into that cookie cutter mindless sheep box.... just then.... they'll do it .... behind your back... instead of to your face..... like a reasonable ***** slinging idiot that they are. I don't know about you but I'd rather know someone is bad off the bat than  have to guess... makes my 1st and 2nd life alot easier :D 

20882190_510385099300114_4877071717690633902_n.jpg

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Yeah, I don't like politics in my SL experience. Thankfully I haven't run into anything like it in my adventures. I don't think LL's job is to do anything. I think LL wants as many residents as possible regardless of viewpoints. Beggars can't be choosers as the saying goes. 

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I seldom run into it in world. If anything it’s only ever on this forum and usually only when people start threads like this one. Outside of that...hardly ever. I try to stay out of the “political opinion” arena these days, I did try to show more of an interest a couple of years back and found that I was more stressed out and miserable as a result. So these days I don’t bother, I just keep up to date with what’s happening in the world and live by the rule of “just don’t be a d*** to one another”.

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In my experience people put inflammatory things in their profile specifically to to get a rise out of people. Best to completely ignore them, or you are giving them exactly what they want...attention. I don’t have enough in-world time to waste it on idiots.

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Abandoning your premium account because LL allows people to express opinions you don't like?  If they violate the TOS then of course AR them but don't lay the blame at LL's door, for goodness' sake.  I've seen plenty of hate-filled comments on people's profiles from both sides of the (somewhat arbitrary) political spectrum.  Do you object to left-wing hate comments?  What about Goreans?  Have you been happy to enjoy your premium account while they're in the world?

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