Legacy Default Skin

[Chantel Pearl]

I tried the Legacy demo and i really love the default skin that comes with it. The problem is when i tried bakes on mesh option it switched to my skin which i don't want to use. I guess i must have messed up or is there a way to keep the Legacy skin and use Bom so i can add tattoos and what not. I really love this skin so much.

[Orion Pastorelli]

The Legacy Store (The Shoppes?) would need to offer their default skins in the form of system skins or "BoM Layers" as they are often called these days. I would be very surprised if they did not. I would go back to the store and look for BoM Layers or Baked on Mesh Layers vendors.

[Claireschen Hesten]

1 hour ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

The Legacy Store (The Shoppes?) would need to offer their default skins in the form of system skins or "BoM Layers" as they are often called these days. I would be very surprised if they did not. I would go back to the store and look for BoM Layers or Baked on Mesh Layers vendors.

The default skins should be in the HUD to use even if you turn BoM on if you do get it back make a copy of the body with that skin if they work off an external server like the old TMP which has been flaky as to whether the HUD wants to work you may not get it back, During a recent visit to the inworld store having to endure their shopping experience i didn't see any separate skins

[Orion Pastorelli]

21 hours ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

The default skins should be in the HUD to use even if you turn BoM on if you do get it back make a copy of the body with that skin if they work off an external server like the old TMP which has been flaky as to whether the HUD wants to work you may not get it back, During a recent visit to the inworld store having to endure their shopping experience i didn't see any separate skins

The thing is, when you "Turn On" BoM what happens is that whatever texture is on the Mesh Body is replaced by one of the red "BoM" textures. This red "BoM" texture is then immediately replaced by the baked texture on the System Body. The system body is then alpha'd completely invisible without the use of a system body alpha mask.

Thus, assuming my current understanding of BoM is correct...

 In order for the default Legacy skin to be a part of the combined/composite baked texture that is ultimately applied to the Mesh Body, it HAS to be applied to the System Body FIRST.  The only way to do this is via a System Skin.

If the Legacy Body store is NOT offering their default skins in the form of System Skins, then, as far as I know, you will NOT be able to use them with BoM. You will HAVE to use a 3rd party skin.

[Alyona Su]

13 minutes ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

In order for the default Legacy skin to be a part of the combined/composite baked texture that is ultimately applied to the Mesh Body, it HAS to be applied to the System Body FIRST.  The only way to do this is via a System Skin.

Precisely THIS. Full stop.

[Claireschen Hesten]

1 hour ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

 In order for the default Legacy skin to be a part of the combined/composite baked texture that is ultimately applied to the Mesh Body, it HAS to be applied to the System Body FIRST.  The only way to do this is via a System Skin.

While i do use BoM i never knew that. had assumed HUD appliers would still work with BoM activated

[Alyona Su]

1 hour ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

2 hours ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

 In order for the default Legacy skin to be a part of the combined/composite baked texture that is ultimately applied to the Mesh Body, it HAS to be applied to the System Body FIRST.  The only way to do this is via a System Skin.

While i do use BoM i never knew that. had assumed HUD appliers would still work with BoM activated

Appliers do still work, just not skin appliers because a skin applier will overwrite/cover-up the BOM layer. However, using a system layer skin allows you also to use anything else that is a system layer. But you also can use appliers for things like tattoos, makeup, etc. Think of appliers as "decals" - like those bubblegum temporary tattoos for children - something you affix on top of, or onto your skin.

Though, having an applier tattoo, and wear BOM system skin along with any system clothing would look odd: because an applier will always be the top-most layer; your tattoo would cover your (system layer) clothing also.

In short, once you do BOM, try to avoid using appliers whenever possible. If you have anything that is an applier than also includes the system layer version, wear the system layer version and do not use the applier.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Alyona Su

[Orion Pastorelli]

So my question is, DOES the Legacy body store (The Shops ?) offer their default body skins in some kind of System Layer?

After thinking about it, since you can only wear one System Skin at a time, I realized that a System Skin with just body textures (Torso & Legs) would be problematic if you wanted to go full BoM, head to toe. System Tattoo Layers would probably work best.

I do not own a Legacy Body, but anyone that does, please chime in.

[Alyona Su]

33 minutes ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

So my question is, DOES the Legacy body store (The Shops ?) offer their default body skins in some kind of System Layer?

After thinking about it, since you can only wear one System Skin at a time, I realized that a System Skin with just body textures (Torso & Legs) would be problematic if you wanted to go full BoM, head to toe. System Tattoo Layers would probably work best.

I do not own a Legacy Body, but anyone that does, please chime in.

The only way to know is to go to their shop and look at what they offer. Though it is highly unlikely. Though with BOM, you can use any system skin from any creator offering it. Sessions has just released two new BOM-only skins (full head-to-toe system layer skins, the way skins were sold before mesh bodies arrived in SL.

The best way to think of BOM is: Your system avatar is the real you, your mesh body and head is a clear, plastic head-to-toe raincoat. So using system layers whenever possible for your skin, makeup, tattoos, all of it, whenever possible. Any thing you apply to the clear-coat enveloping you (your mesh body (and if BOM enabled: mesh head) will appear outside anything your wear as a system layer, including clothing.

Though this can seem complicated, it's actually wonderful as it creates the maximum flexibility in how you create your look.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Alyona Su

[Zak Westminster]

My understanding is that the Legacy body system does not provide anything in any form of system layer nor even appliers - they use an off SL asset storage that needs to be online for you to adjust anything on your mesh layers (apart from alpha). Given this I think it highly unlikely that they will be supporting BOM as it would render their asset storage systems obsolete eventually.

Just my guess though.

[Alyona Su]

24 minutes ago, Zak Westminster said:

My understanding is that the Legacy body system does not provide anything in any form of system layer nor even appliers - they use an off SL asset storage that needs to be online for you to adjust anything on your mesh layers (apart from alpha). Given this I think it highly unlikely that they will be supporting BOM as it would render their asset storage systems obsolete eventually.

Just my guess though.

You understand the overview, yes, though misunderstand the detail and intricacy of the system. As for BOM - already there. Which is what makes your comment misinformation at best. If you do not own the body, it may be best to not comment on it, no?

[Zak Westminster]

You understand the overview, yes, though misunderstand the detail and intricacy of the system. As for BOM - already there. Which is what makes your comment misinformation at best. If you do not own the body, it may be best to not comment on it, no?

 

Woah way to over-react - a simple clarification on the facts would have sufficed you know.

Edited January 8, 2020 by Zak Westminster

[Alyona Su]

33 minutes ago, Zak Westminster said:

Woah way to over-react - a simple clarification on the facts would have sufficed you know.

What you see as overreaction is my trying to be polite. Simple clarification of the facts then: Your presumption based on hearsay is wrong., which makes you part of a problem, not a solution.

[Orion Pastorelli]

21 hours ago, Zak Westminster said:

My understanding is that the Legacy body system does not provide anything in any form of system layer nor even appliers - they use an off SL asset storage that needs to be online for you to adjust anything on your mesh layers (apart from alpha). Given this I think it highly unlikely that they will be supporting BOM as it would render their asset storage systems obsolete eventually.

Just my guess though.

I own the original TMP male body, but I have only DEMOed the new Legacy male body.

A bit of a correction, The Shops does not use “off SL asset storage,” Linden Labs would NEVER allow this. A more accurate description would be, “External Server-based Applier System.”

So, a little bit of the history of this company (The Shops), as I understand it…

Back in the days before mesh bodies, the creators who would eventually form “The Shops” were like skin and hair makers. They were very frustrated by the extensive texture and content theft that was occurring in SL because of programs like copy bot. When mesh bodies started becoming a thing in SL, I think they saw an opportunity to do something about it.

I strongly suspect they developed their “External Server-based Applier System” to prevent people from applying stolen textures on the mesh body. It acts as kind of Gate Keeper; only letting you use textures you have paid for and that they have determined are legit. Sure, people can still rip skin and tattoo textures, but without a way to apply it to the mesh body, they are pointless.

Most mesh bodies use what I like to call, “Internal HUD-based Appliers.” If you get the development kit for a body, then you can make your own appliers. This gives you the means to apply a stolen texture to a mesh body.

Second Life, however, being the market-driven beast that it is, the TMP body probably fell out of favor for being so restrictive and for the lack Omega Applier support. I know I switched over to the Belleza Jake as soon as it came out.

I strongly suspect the current iteration of The Shops RELUCTANTLY decided to include support for BoM for the Legacy bodies. They see the writing on the wall and don’t want this body fail as well. BoM support is the only reason I am even considering it, though I will probably wait till it has way more third-party support AND goes on sale… probably next Christmas or something.

A side note:  When I was trying out the Legacy DEMO body and HUD, I noticed that all the skins and tattoos that I had purchased for my original TMP body were available to try out on the Legacy DEMO. BONUS!

[Bobbie Faulds]

I think there is a mix up in terms here. You have what is called the legacy body that refers to the system body. The other is a mesh body that I thought was called TMP. I hadn’t heard it called the Legacy body before. So, you are talking about two different things.

[Alyona Su]

2 hours ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

I own the original TMP male body, but I have only DEMOed the new Legacy male body.

Excellent explanation and reasoning here! I don't know the details of the why, etc., though your description makes perfect sense as I remember the :Skin wars" from those days. As for the body versus Belleza - on this account I debated getting the Legacy, but did not (I have it on my alt) because I always keep coming back to my Belleza (which I do not have on the alt).

I will say this about the Legacy: it has the *best* auto-alpha system than any other body I've tried, including Tonic - set your alpha cuts, click the "Export" button and a box is rezzed for you to name. Take it and wear and boom: Auto-alpha cuts, just add it to the folder with the outfit is should go with.

I *really* like the skins it comes with, but don't want to mess with trying to match a head skin with it. So a couple pointers for others that I have done for myself:

• Deetalez skins have a "neck fade" option that will allow you to use a built-in Legacy skin with their faces and it works fabulously! Deetalez also offers complete body skins that can be applied to legacy to match their faces.
• Session has release "BOM Body Kit" . that includes all shades of their body skins in system layer format (body-only, no head) - so you can set your Legacy to BOM and use the applier to your Genus or Catwa, etc. Seamless!
• Session is in the process of releasing full BOM skins (complete body and head the way skins were released before mesh heads arrived) - This is what I'm using now with my Legacy set to BOM and using the official Genus BOM applier (grab one from their store if you don't have it) - seamless neck, looks fantastic.

BOM is still catching on with people, including the creators. Now, when I look at skins: no System layer versions included? NO SALE.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Alyona Su

[Alyona Su]

7 minutes ago, Bobbie Faulds said:

I think there is a mix up in terms here. You have what is called the legacy body that refers to the system body. The other is a mesh body that I thought was called TMP. I hadn’t heard it called the Legacy body before. So, you are talking about two different things.

It is TMP newest body that they call "Legacy" (https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/219949)

System body is system body.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

7 hours ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

Most mesh bodies use what I like to call, “Internal HUD-based Appliers.” If you get the development kit for a body, then you can make your own appliers. This gives you the means to apply a stolen texture to a mesh body.

This applies to Legacy as well. It's not clear from your post that you know this. The applier dev kit is publicly available. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Orion Pastorelli]

17 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

This applies to Legacy as well. It's not clear from your post that you know this. The applier dev kit is publicly available. 

No, I did not know this.

However, I have a question for clarification. Does this dev kit allow you to make a traditional applier, independent from their external server? OR does it allow you to make an "installer," which communicates with their external server to make the textures available in their configuration HUD (called, "Style Mode" during the days of the original TMP body) ?

Because if its the former and NOT the latter, then that's kind of a big deal for this company as far as I know. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Orion Pastorelli

[Wulfie Reanimator]

45 minutes ago, Orion Pastorelli said:

No, I did not know this.

However, I have a question for clarification. Does this dev kit allow you to make a traditional applier, independent from their external server? OR does it allow you to make an "installer," which communicates with their external server to make the textures available in their configuration HUD (called, "Style Mode" during the days of the original TMP body) ?

Because if its the former and NOT the latter, then that's kind of a big deal for this company as far as I know. 

If I recall correctly, the applier system claims to be independent of an external server (the specific phrasing was "works offline"). I don't know how previous TMP bodies worked, I only own Legacy.

The applier setup process is almost identical to Omega. It just works.

I don't quite understand how an external server is supposed to reduce theft. If it checks the UUID for an existing one in their database, a simple reupload would circumvent that unless they hash the texture data as well, but that's equally easy to bypass and risks false positives.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Wulfie Reanimator