Prokofy Neva Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 So I have finally caught up with this tape of an interview with the Lindens in which Oz Linden actually answers a question I sent into Saffia, who runs the show. Basically, I wanted to know why mesh placed on mesh bounces, and goes back to inventory but not lost and found, so you to relog to get it again if it is a single copy (like a gatcha). HUGE annoyance. And furthermore, since I figured that problem would be too hard to fix or not a priority, I wondered if the Lindens could just change the error message along with the bouncing which is "the owner of this land does not allow..." And the reason is simple: All day, every day, tenants contact me bewildered and frustrated by this message. Why is the owner of the land not letting them do a thing they paid for?! They joined the group as to become in a sense co-owners! This is why I put out prim cutting boards in every community and warn people that mesh is a batch, and you need to rez mesh on to a prim, then in edit mode, put it in place. This can be too frustrating for some people and they refund -- only to find the same problem no doubt in their next rental. Many mesh houses and skyboxes have this problem of mesh bounce, some worse than others -- it has to do with the physics and the way the mesh is uploaded, I'm told. Interestingly, the Moles' mesh in the campers does NOT suffer from bounce problem, so I wish they could capture this, put it in a jar, and export it to all creators so this stops, but meanwhile, the message... Watching this interview was helpful, as I was reminded what an utterly different -- and wildly wacky -- world the Lindens, creators of this world, live in, themselves. I suppose it's something like the difference between bringing the circus to town and working in it, and going to the circus and watching it. It is entirely unlike my Second Life -- they put the stress on the first word in the phrase, and I (and Saffia and so many others) put the stress on the second word -- SECOND Life versus Second LIFE and all that entails -- and that's only the beginning of all the weirdness. So at about 16:17 on this YouTube, Oz says that the reason they can't change this message is because in fact, the prim bouncing is, in fact, on another person's land. And he explains this by saying that the user is high up in the air, building, or decorating, as people so often are, and there is a little line that comes from them down to the object they are placing -- he gives the example of a 2000 meter high skybox and implies that the user is trying to place something on the ground from that height -- or that the line goes from the avatar in a skybox down to that ground regardless of where the placement is, and depending on the angle, it's actually on someone else's property. This is so fantastically strange that I don't even know how to unpack it, because it simply isn't true. The overwhelming majority of use cases of this phenomenon happen on your own land, where you as the owner or your tenants as group members and thus "like" owners, are placing one mesh item on another on the ground, within a radius of one meter, not in the air, or if in the air in a skybox, at least attempting to place an item right next to you. Obviously Oz or April aren't rental agents and not decorating house after house so they don't experience this. They don't have customers (or shouldn't because anyone needing customer service shouldn't contact them, but the helpers on the web site). They may build up in the air, or listen to the stories of Moles who build up in the air. But there's a big difference between BUILDING when often you are hovering over the build below you, and DECORATING when you are right there, in the room, with that lamp and table. This should be obvious. That I have to explain it at length means it isn't at all, and that Oz imagines a world in which people only build from hover heights up in the air or even way up in the sky, and can't conceive of a world in which I am in a room with a lamp and a table -- bouncing, bouncing, bouncing, forcing a re-log, to everyone's annoyance. Now. I can conceive that if I were in a skybox doing this -- and I often am, that's what people want to rent -- and those lines he is talking about jut out from my avatar and go at an angle all the way to the ground, and it might just be that if I am on the Mainland especially, that line of sight could go on to another person's property such as to cause "the owner of this land does not allow..." But that's not the case. I'm in the middle of a sim, which I own all the parcels on. Often surrounded by other sims which I own entirely. The line of sight or trajectory or whatever it is couldn't possibly be extending out to someone else's land; it's on mine. That's if we're talking skybox. But on the ground -- THE GROUND! -- I am on my own land. I am in front of a table, trying to put a lamp on it. There is no line of sight or trajectory or anything that could possibly be extending to someone else's land or Linden land. YET IT IS BOUNCING. And this happens on islands and homesteads as well as mainland. It's because the mesh is bouncing. There is some function of the mesh itself -- perhaps if made poorly or with too many vertices or whatever -- that makes it bounce. A few very skilled creators do not cause you to suffer from this problem. You easily place their mesh on their mesh, or their mesh on another person's mesh without bounce. But most mesh does bounce. As I said, somehow the floors in the mobile homes in Bellisseria do not bounce, so that should be examined. When I listen to these Linden interviews, I really am at a loss. Their experience is so outside of mine (and many other people's) that I just don't know what to say, how to get them to stop the pain in every day use, although they do seem willing to stop pain. All they need to do is not overthink it, not go trawling for exotic use cases that only they imagine, but just look at ordinary life and change the message to simply "Unable to place object, try moving closer" and leave it at that. After all, they have that message when you are in one sim, trying to sit on a thing in another sim. It wills say you can't do that because you aren't in the same sim. Very clear and simple. By the same token, you could simply say "can't place" and "try moving closer" to imply that MIGHT work (if their line of sight thing is really the common use case they imagine). It's not perfect, because it isn't quite true -- mesh bounces not because of the line of sight but because of the inherent nature of mesh, and people's skills with it, which they don't seem to want to admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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