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Prokofy Neva

Why Are Things Disappearing?

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I thought at first this was some setting I had wrong in "Build" or possibly some other problem like trying to do something across sim borders.

But it's not.

And now tenants are reporting this to me, too. 

And yes, on sim edges (this used to happen ages ago) but I'm finding it all over as well.

Like, I put out something and I can't see it. No, it's not that it has a transparent back (so many mesh things do). It's just not visible, even being a prim block. No, it doesn't re-appear after relogging (that's a different issue where things don't rez for you and you have to wait for them -- this is the disappearance of things you just put out).

Or I edit something -- it disappears. I pull it away from a building -- I can see it again. (Maybe this is related to alpha transparencies on old buildings, which can cause this).

But I notice it on new stuff (like Storyteller's Burrow), and just odd things -- like half a living room's furniture will be "there," and the other half won't.

Yes, you can right-click on a building to make it "snap into place again". Sculpties have this problem sometimes.

My God, please don't tell me for the zillionth time about RenderVolume etc. That is at 4.4 and always is. That is NOT the issue.

There are so many other things wrong lately I wonder if a patch is coming.

But let's see if anybody else has invisibility problems.

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The only odd experience I had a few days ago was that a sofa I'd previously tried in my bedroom, but removed....was phasing in and out. 

It never stayed long enough for me to click on it, but was fully rezzed for less than a second.

That cycled in and out for the whole session, but disappeared after relogging.

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1 hour ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

Area search by Owner Name. It'll point the item out. 

No. 

It's not about lost items, that's different.

This is different.

Read what I wrote.

It's about things that are there, and you know are there (you may have just edited them or put them out, and no they didn't bounce) -- but disappear.

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10 minutes ago, BelindaN said:

The only odd experience I had a few days ago was that a sofa I'd previously tried in my bedroom, but removed....was phasing in and out. 

It never stayed long enough for me to click on it, but was fully rezzed for less than a second.

That cycled in and out for the whole session, but disappeared after relogging.

Yes, that's a good description of what I'm seeing. "Phasing in and out". 

"I'm Here But I'm Gone" by Curtis May.

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29 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Yes, that's a good description of what I'm seeing. "Phasing in and out". 

"I'm Here But I'm Gone" by Curtis May.

If you can see something from a distance but it disappears when you zoom in, that's a sign that it was made with far too many polygons. If too many polygons are trying to show up in a small part of your view the viewer won't draw many of them. When you zoom out the polygon load is spread out and the affected items are visible again. There was/is a gacha item maker who made items with this issue. This will be aggravated by having more than one of these high-poly items close together and it will also be worse with high LOD factors like 4 because raised LOD factors increase the number of polygons you see at any given time. That might be the issue with items that disappear when they're close to other items but reappear when they're moved further away because moving things further away spreads out the polygon load.

Also I have encountered a few items (a dress and a skybox) that semi-consistently won't show up until right-clicked and it may have become worse lately.

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11 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

If you can see something from a distance but it disappears when you zoom in, that's a sign that it was made with far too many polygons. If too many polygons are trying to show up in a small part of your view the viewer won't draw many of them. When you zoom out the polygon load is spread out and the affected items are visible again. There was/is a gacha item maker who made items with this issue. This will be aggravated by having more than one of these high-poly items close together and it will also be worse with high LOD factors like 4 because raised LOD factors increase the number of polygons you see at any given time. That might be the issue with items that disappear when they're close to other items but reappear when they're moved further away because moving things further away spreads out the polygon load.

Also I have encountered a few items (a dress and a skybox) that semi-consistently won't show up until right-clicked and it may have become worse lately.

I think it's about object occlusion as noted by Kyrah but what you mention could be an issue. How can you see the number of polygons in a thing? I forget how you do that.

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43 minutes ago, NymChimpski said:

Sounds like you're trying to rezz copybotted items. That's against TOS and can lead to your account being banned.

Um, no. They're not copybotted for sure. And your account seems remarkably inactive inworld for the years you've been in SL. 

 

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sounds like more of a typical day in SL lol

in firestorm in the phototools panel under the Gen tab try unchecking Dynamically adjust level of detail. Usualy this applies to zooming out and things dissapear, but who knows

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It's only a tiny part of the problem described here, but it may help some folks anyway: Always, before I rez something from inventory, I hit Ctrl-3 to open the Build Tool editor. That way, if the thing rezzes somewhere weird or invisible, at least I have it selected so I can do stuff with it, and if it fails to rez I have nothing selected which is a better hint than the sometimes-missing notification that it failed to rez.

(I haven't personally experienced any unusual invisibilities, but when I do I always just delete the entire AppData/Local/viewername directory because for me it's invariably a cache corruption problem. We're supposed to believe that viewer caches are valuable and stable and not to be deleted, but the Lab knows better and is actively working to replace the current exceptionally flakey cache implementation. I suspect, however, that this is not the problem reported here.)

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It's about things that are there, and you know are there (you may have just edited them or put them out, and no they didn't bounce) -- but disappear.

I've seen this, often if you right-click on where you know parts of them are they'll pop back into view. I've also had success by TP-ing away and then back again, or logging out and back in again.

Additionally, if the region is running a bit slow, just-rezzed items can take quite a while to appear (posted on this in another thread before Christmas) the workaround is to turn off Advanced Lighting mode and then they'll be there.

Try one, some or all of the above

Edited by Profaitchikenz Haiku

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2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Also I have encountered a few items (a dress and a skybox) that semi-consistently won't show up until right-clicked and it may have become worse lately.

I have been experience this a LOT during login. Not just inventory, but things razzed in-world, sometimes even including LL-owned stuff. And occasionally even the *land* - right-clicking sometimes restores it, but sometimes it's although nothing is being sent from the simulators to my viewer and a full reblog is required.

I'm not suggesting this is what @Prokofy Neva is describing, but makes me wonder if it's related somehow. Prok: is this only during a session? What happens if you reblog (does the "missing item that was razzed" appear then)?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But let's see if anybody else has invisibility problems

I am also seeing this, but not just with rezzed items. Some of the tentacles I wear on my avatar suddenly go missing. If I edit them, they show up but as soon as the edit floater closes, they disappear. There are no alpha textures on them so using the Highlight Transparency thing does not show them. Detaching/attaching sometimes works again in a session, sometimes not. Physically crossing region borders will bring them back but the next teleport or region crossing and they are gone again.

Some of my tentacles are old sculpty prims. Others are unrigged mesh.

As far as rezzed items go, yeah... I see plenty of those disappearing too. Mostly the Fanatik landscape boulders, rocks, walls, and ledges but it is not only items of that brand. Brands of other similar landscaping features suffer the same fate so I am sure it is not how those (mostly) mesh items are constructed or imported. Sometimes refreshing vertex buffers brings them back. Sometimes it takes an edit. Sometimes just touching them will do it. Other times, though, they simply refuse to show even after multiple relogs.

In all cases, looking at the viewer logs/debug consoles shows a corresponding network error of some kind relating to "missing textures" or some such thing. I am wondering if this might not be some issue between the LL asset servers and their CDNs or between the CDNs and my network location.

Edited by DilliDallagio
Clarifying landscaping items a bit.
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Posted (edited)

Yes, for me sometimes lately items disappear and don't always re-appear on a relog.  The oddest thing is when avatars themselves wholly disappear unintentionally, leaving only their name floating in the air.  This is on Firestorm.

Edited by Garnet Psaltery
Added viewer name.
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2 hours ago, Jackson Redstar said:

sounds like more of a typical day in SL lol

in firestorm in the phototools panel under the Gen tab try unchecking Dynamically adjust level of detail. Usualy this applies to zooming out and things dissapear, but who knows

Hi, I appreciate your tip but I do not and will not use Firestorm, and the Lindens need to make SL work on their own viewer.

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1 hour ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

I've seen this, often if you right-click on where you know parts of them are they'll pop back into view. I've also had success by TP-ing away and then back again, or logging out and back in again.

Additionally, if the region is running a bit slow, just-rezzed items can take quite a while to appear (posted on this in another thread before Christmas) the workaround is to turn off Advanced Lighting mode and then they'll be there.

Try one, some or all of the above

Thanks, I have Advanced Lighting off anyway. And you don't have to TP away, you can just back away or zoom out, but the point is, if you need to edit and work on something, you can't have it disappearing like this. I started really vexing about this when I was working on a quest, I couldn't be sure if the things I put were being seen by other people if I couldn't see them, and then it becomes hard to hide keys behind things, etc.

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1 hour ago, Alyona Su said:

I have been experience this a LOT during login. Not just inventory, but things razzed in-world, sometimes even including LL-owned stuff. And occasionally even the *land* - right-clicking sometimes restores it, but sometimes it's although nothing is being sent from the simulators to my viewer and a full reblog is required.

I'm not suggesting this is what @Prokofy Neva is describing, but makes me wonder if it's related somehow. Prok: is this only during a session? What happens if you reblog (does the "missing item that was razzed" appear then)?

No, it keeps happening.

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4 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Hi, I appreciate your tip but I do not and will not use Firestorm, and the Lindens need to make SL work on their own viewer.

A good question is -- are ALL the people having issues in the Linden viewer?  If so, then it is likely a new bug that (happily) hasn't made its way to Firestorm and likely other third party viewers. I am using an OLDER version of Firestorm (too many friends with problems with the new one so I didn't install) and I have had no issues like that. 

 

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1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

A good question is -- are ALL the people having issues in the Linden viewer?  If so, then it is likely a new bug that (happily) hasn't made its way to Firestorm and likely other third party viewers. I am using an OLDER version of Firestorm (too many friends with problems with the new one so I didn't install) and I have had no issues like that. 

 

I don't think this is a viewer issue, and Firestorm (as with each viewer) has its own issues.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

are ALL the people having issues in the Linden viewer?

Linux user here so I cannot use the Linden viewer. The issues I have previously described happen in Firestorm, Cool VL Viewer, and the latest Singularity Beta.

The land rezzed objects that disappear consistently do so in all the viewers I use. Though the viewers themselves might word their actual network errors slightly differently, they all report some sort of error that indicates "missing textures" or "wire chewed by rabbit" types of indications.

The wearable objects suddenly disappearing at times is something new with it happening on all three viewers.

Edited by DilliDallagio
Clarity... maybe drank a wee too much coffee...
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1 hour ago, Chic Aeon said:

A good question is -- are ALL the people having issues in the Linden viewer?  If so, then it is likely a new bug that (happily) hasn't made its way to Firestorm and likely other third party viewers. I am using an OLDER version of Firestorm (too many friends with problems with the new one so I didn't install) and I have had no issues like that. 

 

It's not a new bug. It's a "quirk" that's been happening for more than 10 years. It happens on all viewers, not just FS. 

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_vanishing_prims

 

/me waits for it

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