Bellisseria is raffling off a racist submarine...???

[Cindy Evanier]

2 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

what was in the mind of the person who made the submarine I dunno

historically tho,  the flag on the submarine is the Navy Jack of the Confederate States of America. Which was flown on all confederate warships from 1863 until the end of the US Civil War.  The last warship to fly the confederate navy jack was the CSS Shenandoah captained by James Waddell which surrendered on  6 November 1865, the last military act of the war

 

That doesn't explain to people why it is offensive though.

[Mollymews]

1 minute ago, Cindy Evanier said:

That doesn't explain to people why it is offensive though.

true

probably best to begin with why the Confederate States seceded from the Union.  An uncomfortable why is contained in the Cornerstone Speech given by Alexander Stephens the Vice-President of the Confederate States.  In which he said:

" I]ts foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth."

Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States disagreed

the killing war started when the Confederate State of South Carolina army attacked the United States on April 12 1861 at Fort Sumter

[Nika Talaj]

OK.  I'm a US citizen, but not a person of color, but I'll try to give a little context. 

The Confederate flag did not originate with Dukes of Hazzard, it was adopted by the states making up the Confederacy, 7 (eventually 11) states which seceded from the US in 1861.  They seceded because it was clear that the United States was on the road to abolishing slavery, which was the underpinning of the plantation economy throughout the South.  So the confederate flag is a symbol of slavery in the US.

The US civil war ensued, from 1861-1864.  The Emancipation Proclamation, formally ending the practice of slavery in the US, was signed into law by Abraham Lincoln in 1863. 

The scars from slavery (which from the viewpoint of the slaves was not an economic necessity, but kidnapping and forced relocation to a foreign land, subjection to dehumanizing labor, and widespread destruction of family ties) and the Civil War persist in US society.  Many whites thought we were on the road to healing when blacks began to show up on TV and in middle class professions and Obama was elected.   HOWEVER, subsequent (relatively recent) revelations of widespread systemic racism in municipal law enforcement, housing and other public institutions make it clear that racism is still a powerful force in US society.  Even to many of us comfortably  cocooned in white privilege, the systemic racism is clear.

These forces continue to hugely affect people of color TODAY.  Current racism is is pretty clearly perpetuating the immense discrepancy in incarceration rates between whites and blacks, as well as persistent gaps in educational opportunities and economic progress. 

Lately, many municipalities, particularly in the South, have been attempting to remove public memorials to Confederate war heroes.  Loud protests, often organized by white supremacist groups, have forced some removals to happen quietly overnight.  The confederate flag is always a prominent flashpoint symbol in these protests.

Today, no sane TV producer would greenlight Dukes of Hazzard, which had as a central character a car named General Lee with a confederate flag on the roof!  In 2015 Warner Brothers halted production of toy General Lee cars, and Bubba Watson (pro golfer) announced that he was painting over the flag on the season 1 General Lee car that he owns.

Controversy persists today over these symbols; some think that purging them from public life is an attempt to erase history.  Some cities address that concern by putting their confederate memorials in museums, instead of town squares.

As the current presidential administration continues its dog whistles to white supremacists, tensions rise. I believe that today many (perhaps most) people of color react with repulsion on seeing the Confederate flag, and US progressives of all races react with a similar, though perhaps less personally motivated, emotion.  But someone more directly affected by racism is better qualified to speak on that.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Nika Talaj

[Elora Lunasea]

Thanks @Nika Talaj for taking the time to write the above.

Adding to that - it has deep negative meaning to the Jewish community as well due the image being embraced by alt-right/neo-Nazi/right wing militia/neo-confederate/eno-fascist groups. 

The Unite the Right protest and resulting riot in Charlottesville, VA in 2017 is a prime example, where chants of "Jews will not replace us!" along with other antisemitic, anti-Muslin and racist remarks was the marching cry of those carrying the confederate flag, crosses, weapons, torches and other items. This riot resulted in the death of a young women, who was purposely run down by a car driven by one of the neo-nazi members. He also injured 19 other people.

 

 

 

 

[Claireschen Hesten]

I don't think the creator of the sub was being intentionally racist. They probably had no idea of the significance of the flag. It does look like they've tried making a submarine version of the Dukes of hazard car.

While I have been aware of what the flag represents, in my part of the world it has been adopted by people into rock & roll music and motorbikes the flag in various forms features quite a lot in the scene with no malicious intent 

[Elena Blossom]

13 minutes ago, Claireschen Hesten said:

I don't think the creator of the sub was being intentionally racist. They probably had no idea of the significance of the flag. It does look like they've tried making a submarine version of the Dukes of hazard car.

While I have been aware of what the flag represents, in my part of the world it has been adopted by people into rock & roll music and motorbikes the flag in various forms features quite a lot in the scene with no malicious intent 

Same here. There was a rockabillly pub below my aparment, and many people used to wear that flag, and I'm pretty sure they were not aware of the meaning in the US, because it has a different meaning here. Still, no excuse, everyone should be aware of the actual meaning of that flag.

 So sorry you had to see that @Pussycat Catnaphopefully those symbols will disappear one day

[Aemeth Lysette]

There are too many other games vying for social attention right now, for this to carry on as it is in SL. For example--I have yet to find a Confederate flag in VRChat. Putting things like that up there get you reported really fast.

[Pussycat Catnap]

8 hours ago, Atina0 said:

here in Europe  i believe we have absolutely no idea of the meaning of that flag ,i even never saw it before.

It is the flag that some of my ancestors fought under. It is also the flag that some of them were hung under. Like almost any American who has ancestry going back far enough here - I fall under both sides.

It is the flag that to this day; people are still hung under. It is the flag of slavery. It is the flag of men who's cause inspired Hitler when he corresponded with American friends and learned how to do the things he would later do (largely a result of Ford and Adolf speaking about the Jews, and Adolf knowing of the Klan and the Indian Wars).

It is the flag of men in hooded robes and burning symbols riding in acts of terrorism throughout the USA (far beyond the reach of the South btw... they used to march in Berkeley California as recently as around 1990). It is the flag that is flown at every racist rally, usually by people who also sport the WWII German symbol somewhere on them just to make the linkage absolutely clear.

Whatever it may have meant to soldiers in 1865... it's meaning grew vastly stronger after and in these modern times...

Imagine flying the flag of Imperial Japan anywhere in modern Asia... or the Flag of WWII Germany in Israel or the occupied Territories - to anyone in the USA, that is what this represents. It is basically a racial 'come at me' challenge.

There are no 3 symbols in the modern world more incendiary than those 3.

 

IF things have been dealt with, and that item is no longer there inworld... it's best that this topic be moved on from... this symbol always leads to nasty fights online...
- why I didn't respond yesterday, it looked like it was both dealt with and moved on from.

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Pussycat Catnap

[sirhc DeSantis]

8 hours ago, Atina0 said:

here in Europe  i believe we have absolutely no idea of the meaning of that flag ,i even never saw it before.

As also one who is ´here in Europe´ I ,with respect, would suggest that is bovine waste product.

[Gingir Ghoststar]

I just want to chime in and say, I love you folks. I live in an area where there is still much contention over the confederate battle standard. It gives me hope for the future to see so many speak out against it's being flown, put on clothes, cars, anywhere but in a museum.

[Sparky Linden]

Okay chiming in here before locking this thread. It seems the item has been removed and replaced with something else. Let's consider this situation resolved.