nikita Jefferson Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 By Tues it will be 21 days since our mainland sim was restarted , flying is crap as all the sims around are just as degraded but nothing we can do except wait till LL decides to restart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillith Hapmouche Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 9 minutes ago, nikita Jefferson said: ... nothing we can do ... Of course you can do something, file a support ticket and kindly request a simple restart. I picked "Region offline" in the past and explained the performance issue. If you or one of the parcel owners are premium, there'll be even more options or Live Chat. Mention the last restart date and the sim name, of course, include a screenshot of the performance stats of the sim and explain the details you and others encounter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aishagain Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) Yes, we are approaching 3 weeks since the last official restarts on Main Server and some heavily loaded sims are starting to fail; I have heard of 2 shopping events today where the regions are essentially unreachable (and NOT due to being anywhere near full). In order to give stats on such a region one would need to be able to get there! Catch 22. 10 days was the maximum that LL allowed between "official" restarts whether or not new code was being deployed. I t seems that that rule has been abandoned and the results are being felt all over Mainland. Edited December 30, 2019 by Aishagain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 On 12/28/2019 at 5:17 PM, Lillith Hapmouche said: Of course you can do something, file a support ticket and kindly request a simple restart. I picked "Region offline" in the past and explained the performance issue. If you or one of the parcel owners are premium, there'll be even more options or Live Chat. Mention the last restart date and the sim name, of course, include a screenshot of the performance stats of the sim and explain the details you and others encounter. I've already sent in tickets on three sims today. Whatever is breaking is so bad that little-used sims like empty water and sandboxes are becoming un-enterable. Not just vehicles, plain avatars. SL needs to be monitoring their own system health better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 There are, however, some surprisingly healthy Mainland regions with uptime around 20 days now. Seems like the majority, actually. Maybe not the very busiest of regions, but they get some traffic, and yet they seem totally unaffected by that extended uptime. It's probably unintentional - and so it's unlikely to be repeated - but running so long without a restart creates a kind of natural experiment: if only somebody could identify what's different about the less healthy regions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aishagain Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) Qie, your comment that it is "probably unintentional" is indicative, on the face of it, of a very reasonable attitude. However the mere fact that it could be "unintentional" strikes me as indicating that SL is being run by folk who are perhaps 1) unaware of the consequences of their action, 2) incompetent or 3), uninterested in the outcome of any or all of their (in)action. And I DO mean UNinterested, not DISinterested. Somehow I can't quite bring myself to believe 3) and 2) would be unwelcome. Edited December 30, 2019 by Aishagain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 11 hours ago, animats said: I've already sent in tickets on three sims today. Whatever is breaking is so bad that little-used sims like empty water and sandboxes are becoming un-enterable. Not just vehicles, plain avatars. SL needs to be monitoring their own system health better. LL replied to that ticket today: "Thank you for contacting Second Life Support, and for your patience. Thank you for checking on this. I am afraid this is a known bug that has come back to haunt us. We are aware of this issue and the technical folks are working on a resolution. In the meantime I've addressed the issue that caused this to on the regions you mentioned and you should have access once again." So I fired up the helicopter and went west to Seylar again. Got blown out of the air again. Can't even teleport home. This has been broken for at least four days now. One does not simply walk into Seylar. This has happened four times now over three days. Finally did walk in. Then, couldn't TP out. Walking out failed once, then succeeded. Then, 10 second delays at every region crossing. I'm giving up on SL for today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, animats said: a known bug that has come back to haunt us Interesting. When I visited before, Seylar appeared to be too busy sleeping to do much else -- almost the whole frame was "Spare Time." Just checked again and you're right: seems the same. Not sure what this reveals about the simulation, that it can get into such a state. It seems for every theory about the simulation there's an equal and opposite theory about data collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profaitchikenz Haiku Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) This is always the weak point in black-box testing, unpredictable results tend to promote wild or exaggerated theories amongst the testers and can even lead to them going out on a limb in trying to further research these hypotheses.. Strangely though, the parcels I keep an eye on have never been better or steadier these past two weeks. I feel guilty now after reading what other people have been suffering. If there is a server user group meeting tomorrow (and not a New Year's Eve party) we might get some information. Edited December 30, 2019 by Profaitchikenz Haiku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Aishagain said: However the mere fact that it [long intervals since the last restart] could be "unintentional" strikes me as indicating that SL is being run by folk who are perhaps... 4) a little too excited about Santa's pending arrival, causing some stuff to fall through the cracks while maybe one too many ops folks took holiday leave? I have no idea what I'm talking about, as usual. I think, however, a point might be made by somebody that holidays are kind of important in Second Life, too, for many people and businesses. That is to say, a post-mortem on this one wouldn't be a bad idea. In fact, if Oz is at the user group tomorrow, someone might want to suggest it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 24 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said: This is always the weak point in black-box testing, unpredictable results tend to promote wild or exaggerated theories amongst the testers and can even lead to them going out on a limb in trying to further research these hypotheses.. Yes. After collecting a lot of data about region crossing problems, with instrumented SL vehicles logging to a database, and looking at sim to viewer traffic with a modified Firestorm, I finally concluded that 1) failures could happen without any problems in the viewer-sim traffic, 2) there was no real pattern in what regions were involved, and 3) without access to the sim to sim traffic, I wasn't going to get very far. So I kept bugging the server Lindens to instrument their back end better, since they clearly didn't understand the problem either. I suggest that we, as users, push for 2020 to be the year SL, server-side, gets fixed. Animesh, EEP, and BOM are done server side. The only big server side projects known are last names and moving the sim servers to "the cloud". We need the existing stuff working better more than new features server-side right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, animats said: I suggest that we, as users, push for 2020 to be the year SL, server-side, gets fixed. Animesh, EEP, and BOM are done server side. The only big server side projects known are last names and moving the sim servers to "the cloud". We need the existing stuff working better more than new features server-side right now. I think I agree with you guys about that, even though at an earlier meeting I fretted about "task-switching" developers swinging from a new features project and then eventually back again. There are so many ways the server side needs fixing, though, and priorities aren't known. Not sure what that would delay. (Last names? Is there still server-side stuff to be done with that?) Oh, one thing: We don't want stuff that's obsolete when moved to the cloud. Specifically I'm thinking some forms of performance improvement will be worth chasing, others won't -- especially if they're specific to the hosting/networking arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profaitchikenz Haiku Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said: post-mortem on this one wouldn't be a bad idea. In fact, if Oz is at the user group tomorrow, someone might want to suggest it. Yes, and we want photos of the scalpels slicing flesh, not tales of meeroos making squelching noises. But, as users, we're lower down the food chain than the creators, so are we really going to get taken seriously? 38 minutes ago, animats said: I suggest that we, as users, push for 2020 to be the year SL, server-side, gets fixed. Animesh, EEP, and BOM are done server side. I quite agree (though I thought BoM was done by the bake server not by the region server?) It might be, however, that some of these problems will be easier to fix when on the cloud, on better hardware, and so there could be a plan to defer some of the problems until such time as the hardware change cures them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said: But, as users, we're lower down the food chain than the creators, so are we really going to get taken seriously? Remind them, frequently, that the competition is catching up. Facebook Horizons is coming. Sominium Space is here. Epic's CEO is talking about doing "the metaverse". Improbable has a half a billion dollars in funding to use their big seamless world technology. SL is still #1 in big virtual worlds, but 2020 could be the year that they lose that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profaitchikenz Haiku Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) Although I have a pair of balls, neither of them are crystal enough to validate that prediction:) It might be better perhaps to remind them that many of the creations rely on scripts to actually make them operate? Seriously though, looking at the S-word, that's taken years to get to where it is, Hi-Fidelity has just scaled down their ambition, any new act is going to have to spend years getting it right, and even then, they might get it wrong, it has happened. Edited December 30, 2019 by Profaitchikenz Haiku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBeatrix Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 (edited) Nuggy has just been restarted although it was fine. And it was restarted 2 days ago. Now it came back completely unusable. Scripts Run won't go above 4%. Support ticket filed, as Live Chat Support is closed. Really, LL may try all marketing tricks they want — and that seems to be their main focus — but the truth is... Well, you all know what it is, unless you barely get in-world. [EDIT] Almost 10 hours after I submitted a support ticket, nothing has been done — no response. But the sim's Scripts Run are now going up to 25% average, which is still too low. [EDIT 2] Scripts Run have dropped again, now at about 6% average. It feels like the Lindens just set some random restarts (Nuggy had been restarted on the 28th and then again on the 30th) and closed for holidays at 3 PM SLT. Edited December 31, 2019 by MBeatrix adding info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 4 hours ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said: But, as users, we're lower down the food chain than the creators, so are we really going to get taken seriously? Not really. We have no power, it's true, but they seem to listen when we calmly make sense and listen to what they can share of their situation. Oh wait though. Not this week, right? I'd have to check for spinning boxes to be sure, but I bet it'll be next week. Right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profaitchikenz Haiku Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 7 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: Oh wait though. Not this week, right? I'd have to check for spinning boxes to be sure, but I bet it'll be next week. Right? You're expecting the party-crowd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 51 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said: You're expecting the party-crowd? I think it would be up to us to bring the party. Had to dredge up the solstice party chat log to find it: Quote [2019/12/17 12:46] Simon Linden: yeah nothing until after the New Year ... next meeting is Jan 7th 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profaitchikenz Haiku Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 We could go there anyway and sort out a Bandobast. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Profaitchikenz Haiku Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Just heard from a friend who's mainland place was down for nearly a day, it struck me that I've only heard of mainland regions failing, were any homesteads or private islands also affected? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBeatrix Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said: Just heard from a friend who's mainland place was down for nearly a day My home sim has been unusable for more than half a day due to an unnecessary restart (it had been restarted 2 days before) and Support is unresponsive. Definitely not a nice ending for 2019. Edited December 31, 2019 by MBeatrix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DilliDallagio Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said: Just heard from a friend who's mainland place was down for nearly a day, it struck me that I've only heard of mainland regions failing, were any homesteads or private islands also affected? Over the past two weeks I have reported two of the Calas Galadhon regions (homesteads) to staff for restarts. Reason being the same issues that have been reported here: once walking into a region cannot move and cannot TP out; scripts not running well despite the simulator stats showing no anomalies in times; etc. Calas Galadhon is a private estate island made up of 13 regions. Edited December 31, 2019 by DilliDallagio Added note about homesteads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animats Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 As of last night, Seylar is broken again, even though there's a ticket closed, as mentioned above. What could go wrong there? It's an empty water sim. Other than plant life on the bottom, no content. Go to Server User Group today (1200 SLT, Denby) and complain, loudly. This is bad. Something has changed, for the worse. (I usually go, but have a dental appointment today.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBeatrix Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, animats said: As of last night, Seylar is broken again, even though there's a ticket closed, as mentioned above. What could go wrong there? It's an empty water sim. Other than plant life on the bottom, no content. Go to Server User Group today (1200 SLT, Denby) and complain, loudly. This is bad. Something has changed, for the worse. (I usually go, but have a dental appointment today.) When I try to explain people what SL is, I tell them it's not a game. But I gotta start adding "it's a joke!" After filing two support tickets (the first one was yesterday, a bit past 3 PM SLT) I'm still waiting a response and eventually a restart to my home region (Nuggy). The GSP says that live support is under maintenance. But is it really? How convenient... (/me pictures a poor Linden alone in the office trying to deal with hundreds of support tickets) Edited December 31, 2019 by MBeatrix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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