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2009 to 2019... WOW so much changed


Serena Howley
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13 hours ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

In 2009, if you searched "BDSM" you got actual BDSM places, some of them just themed dance clubs, some mostly for sex hookups, but quite a few serious communities based on mutual respect, learning, and relationships.  Now, 6 of the top 10 search results are AFK sex places, and not one seems to be a serious "community" oriented place.  I don't remember that even being a thing back then.

Yeah, SL's progress has been the same sort of progress you see in  "Idiocracy".

 

Hmmph. Millennials. amirite? They ruin everything!

Maybe this suggests that there is some work you should be getting to in-world?

Or, of course, you can just sit on your rocker on your front porch, shaking your bullwhip angrily at all the entitled youngsters who've wrecked things . . .

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3 hours ago, Serena Howley said:

By the way - do "classic" and "system" refer to the standard SL avatar? 

As others have said, yes, but there's a deceptively named "Legacy" avatar that sounds as if it may be the same but in fact it's just another expensive no-mod mesh avatar like all the others but with historical baggage.

3 hours ago, Serena Howley said:

RE: Roleplay, I'll check zCs - sounds probably like something similar nowadays. Thank you! I've never been into BDSM or sex in here so not really relevant but i've read about RLV lol lol that really took it to the next stage. I hope there are still people who come here for something other than their darkest deviances. Who knows I might be a dreamer here :) 

Couple things here. RLV is used by some for completely vanilla purposes because (besides the control it can give others) it can be configured to allow the user to automate stuff with their own avatars. Somewhat along the same lines: you may encounter "Experiences", a relatively new SL feature which allow venues to do some similar automation, for example giving you attachments at the appropriate point in a game without your needing to stop and attach each one individually, or step through portals without clunky teleport interactions. (Point is, you don't need to be afraid of Experiences: they can be very cool and unlike every other kind of permission, they're easy to revoke.)

Also, there seem to be a few responses suggesting that SL has gotten kinkier than it used to be. Maybe it's just my own interests evolved, and of course YMMV, but I see way (way) less Adult content than I used to, even on Adult regions. (On the other hand, maybe somebody should explain AFK sex places, assuming they're still a thing. They seemed too pointless to understand, but they were kinda common for a while I guess.)

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9 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Also, there seem to be a few responses suggesting that SL has gotten kinkier than it used to be. Maybe it's just my own interests evolved, and of course YMMV, but I see way (way) less Adult content than I used to, even on Adult regions. (On the other hand, maybe somebody should explain AFK sex places, assuming they're still a thing. They seemed too pointless to understand, but they were kinda common for a while I guess.)

I spend a really goodly proportion of my time in-world these days in "A" rated regions, taking photos, clubbing, or shopping. And, excepting the occasional innocuous couch or washing machine containing adult animations, I can't even remember the last time I ran across in-your-face adult content, or people using it. The "A" rating seems to have become almost meaningless as an actual category of experience these days (which I actually don't think is a good thing, for reasons).

Speaking as someone who is not interested in sex or its many and interesting associated activities, I can confidently say that, if there is more sexual content in SL than formerly, it's really well hidden away, cuz I sure ain't seeing it.

(AFK sex, I've happily decided, is something I really don't need to understand. I can put my dwindling brain cells to better uses.)

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7 hours ago, Ziggy Starsmith said:

You can still enjoy SL without the new bells and whistles.

This is true. I have little time to spend inworld, have never wanted to spend too long on customising my avatar and have no interest in having a home (wouldn't be inworld often enough to make it worthwhile anyway). I came to the conclusion that SL is now largely about aesthetics and things looking good, so when I do get inworld now, I literally just go to do an activity where I can enjoy the sights and experience (funfair, winter wonderland, skiing, hang gliding etc). It's working for me. I have a mesh avatar but it wouldn't matter if I hadn't.

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34 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I can't even remember the last time I ran across in-your-face adult content, or people using it. The "A" rating seems to have become almost meaningless as an actual category of experience these days

People rate their regions A so that griefers can't enjoy breaking the maturity rating. 

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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Hmmph. Millennials. amirite? They ruin everything!

Maybe this suggests that there is some work you should be getting to in-world?

Or, of course, you can just sit on your rocker on your front porch, shaking your bullwhip angrily at all the entitled youngsters who've wrecked things . . .

I'm confused.  I didn't say anything about millennials.  I would assume millennials are not all that attracted to SL, as most of the people I meet are in their 30's-70's.  Let's face it, since they're leaving fakebook in droves, it's unlikely they are going to come to SL in numbers great enough to "wreck" things, and I can't imagine people who literally grew up with easy access to free porn on the internet would be all that engrossed by parking an avatar on a poseball and schtupping an AFK pixel prostitute.  SL might as well be MySpace as far as most millennials are concerned.

Besides, communities die when the people move away or cease to care, not because new people move in.  This is especially true when it comes to SL, where you can very easily keep out anyone and everyone you don't want in, so new people are unable to wreck it as long as current members are minimally invested.  As far as creating communities in SL, been there, done that, already wore out the t-shirts.  I, like many of the people I knew in the old days who made such places vital, simply got burned out and/or too invested in RL to have the time or energy to devote to SL.

But, I do have a great "you kids get off my lawn!" gesture.  I play it every time I see one of my neighbors cutting through the grass 😛

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1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

Also, there seem to be a few responses suggesting that SL has gotten kinkier than it used to be. Maybe it's just my own interests evolved, and of course YMMV, but I see way (way) less Adult content than I used to, even on Adult regions. (On the other hand, maybe somebody should explain AFK sex places, assuming they're still a thing. They seemed too pointless to understand, but they were kinda common for a while I guess.)

Actually in some respects it seems less kinky.  For instance, I hardly ever stumble across Dolcett/Snuff/Vore themed places, or vampire/BDSM crossover places (although, alas, somehow the top search result for "erotic art" is dedicated to dead women.  Nice job with that search engine, LL...)

AFK sex places are definitely still a thing - although one really must wonder why.

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42 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I came to the conclusion that SL is now largely about aesthetics and things looking good,

Yeah, about the only thing I can think of that has "improved" in SL in the last 10 years is stuff looks more realistic.  Unfortunately, as in RL, beauty is skin deep.

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11 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

I'm confused.  I didn't say anything about millennials.  I would assume millennials are not all that attracted to SL, as most of the people I meet are in their 30's-70's.  Let's face it, since they're leaving fakebook in droves, it's unlikely they are going to come to SL in numbers great enough to "wreck" things, and I can't imagine people who literally grew up with easy access to free porn on the internet would be all that engrossed by parking an avatar on a poseball and schtupping an AFK pixel prostitute.  SL might as well be MySpace as far as most millennials are concerned.

It was a joke. YEESH.

/me rolls her eyes.

12 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

I, like many of the people I knew in the old days who made such places vital, simply got burned out and/or too invested in RL to have the time or energy to devote to SL.

Then, respectfully (sort of), if you aren't willing to invest the time and effort into sustaining, yet alone building, communities, you're not in a position to whine that others aren't.

I also burned out, in 2011. When I have come back, as I have a few times since then, I at least try to contribute.

4 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Actually in some respects it seems less kinky.

A lot of the kinkiness has been mainstreamed. It's lost its edge, as a result, and its ability to shock. It's also being very poorly done, for the most part, which is why someone like you could actually contribute in useful and functional ways.

6 minutes ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

For instance, I hardly ever stumble across Dolcett/Snuff/Vore themed places, or vampire/BDSM crossover places (although, alas, somehow the top search result for "erotic art" is dedicated to dead women.  Nice job with that search engine, LL...)

Interesting. (And necrophilic porn? Nice.)

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Why do all these threads devolve into sex and/or kink shaming? 

There are things in SL for everyone. A lot of people enjoy the sexual adult side. A lot of people have kinks. One of those kinks that some have is AFK sex - having it with an AFK person, or being the AFK person, whether they are actually AFK or not. What is there to understand or care about other than that? I do not have a foot fetish. I think feet are gross. Many people have a foot fetish. It doesn't affect me in the slightest. It isn't that I don't understand it - there isn't anything for me to understand. It just isn't my thing so I move on. 

Second Life is an enormous world that contains at least a bit of pretty much everything, and if you can't find what you're looking for, you can make it. Your world, your imagination, and all that. 

And every time people complain about the pixel sex, or feel the need to make sure everyone knows they don't do the pixel sex, I can't help but think they have an alt that has all the sexy, kinky pixel sex they're too scared to do on their main. 

Sex has been in SL since day one. It will be here until the end. Get over it. 

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5 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

they don't do the pixel sex, I can't help but think they have an alt that has all the sexy, kinky pixel sex they're too scared to do on their main. 

Some of us are not lying,  nor do we hide it on an alt. Is it because you want to believe the worst in everyone else that you insist everyone must be having pixel sex in SL? Why insist that because we don't have pixel sex on any account, we are liars? We're liars because we simply do not have any interest in sex on the internet? Who is kink shaming who?

8 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Sex has been in SL since day one. It will be here until the end. Get over it. 

There will always be people who are not interested in sex for a variety of valid reasons. Get over it.

We've already looked at sex in SL through the POV of others and made the decision it isn't for us. Now, it's your turn to look at the not having sex in SL from our POV, instead of taking offense every time someone says they don't have pixel sex in SL.

And now that I've pissed you off, as usual, think about what you are doing. Wear a pair of my moccasins for a hundred miles and then see if you still damn me for not having any desire for what you crave.

25 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Why do all these threads devolve into sex and/or kink shaming? 

Exaggeration. They don't. Some take offense when none is given and open the flood gates.

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3 hours ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

I noticed that as well - although apparently it's well-endowed black shemales based on what came up in search ;)

I wonder if it's just that the SL search engine sucks even more than it did 10 years ago.

Or maybe it's just that too many serious people have left SL and it's now mainly people pounding their puds to pixel porking porn.

Search has always been horrible, and that has always been one of the most frustrating aspects of SL to me. Between the completely incompetent Search and the almost-completely-broken Destinations Guide website, discovery is horrible in SL. Add in MP being almost as pathetic as in-world Search, and showing every single version of an item individually, and it's just frustration on top of frustration. Then pile on top almost nothing in stores being eye-level so you can walk around and shop instead of having to cam everything, and it becomes soul-suckingly maddening.

I spent two hours last night trying to find a place I ran across a while back. I never found it. It's just mind-blowing to me that a company whose product is totally online cannot be bothered to have a better search after 16 years than browsers had 30 years ago (I am guessing, but probably not far off, I think...). Perhaps I am doing it wrong, and if so, I would love to hear how to do it right.~

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6 hours ago, Serena Howley said:

I hope there are still people who come here for something other than their darkest deviances. Who knows I might be a dreamer here :) 

I now spend most of my time in SL pursuing my darkest deviance, playing virtual Barbie, as someone refers to it (in case you are not familiar with Barbie, she is a doll IRL for which you can get lots of clothes and accessories and do dress-up and pretend with, lol).  ;)

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3 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

May I offer you this?

20190825-NLC-Blog-A-Look-In-The-Mirror.png.8dc546528df0159950ad90b9df0da6fd.png

I'm not the one going off the deep end whenever they see someone say they don't have pixel sex or expresses an opinion regarding pixel sex in SL. Just as sex in SL will still be there when they shut the servers down, those of us who don't have internet sex will be as well.

On the other hand, I did momentarily forget that you do like fighting with others, by your own admission. I'll leave it at that.

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1 hour ago, Amina Sopwith said:

This is true. I have little time to spend inworld, have never wanted to spend too long on customising my avatar and have no interest in having a home (wouldn't be inworld often enough to make it worthwhile anyway). I came to the conclusion that SL is now largely about aesthetics and things looking good, so when I do get inworld now, I literally just go to do an activity where I can enjoy the sights and experience (funfair, winter wonderland, skiing, hang gliding etc). It's working for me. I have a mesh avatar but it wouldn't matter if I hadn't.

Although it may be true only of the places I go, which tend to be places where people are striving to look good and expect that of others, my experience is that if you want people to interact with you, you need to be all mesh. Likely my experience is quite narrow, but there is a lot of SL like that these days. Of course, I am guessing there are plenty of sites for new people, and for people who are find with classics avis and clothes, but I never wind up at them, and I don't know that I ever see anyone with a classic avi the places I go. Sometimes I will run across someone with a classic head, and usually they state in their Profile they are doing it on principle. I do feel that these days to get the fullest experience of SL you need to spend the time and money to high-end your avis, for better or worse.

Back in the day, all anyone had was the system avi, and while there were nicer clothes and skins and hair (which were as expensive as now, except you didn't have to buy a separate skin for your head and body), it could be a lot cheaper and easier to more-or-less fully participate in SL. I know I used to focus far more on the social experience and far less on appearance, and now it is exactly the opposite; I spend almost all my time in SL doing things alone, mostly involving dressing up my avi.

Edited by CaerolleClaudel
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2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

The "A" rating seems to have become almost meaningless as an actual category of experience these days (which I actually don't think is a good thing, for reasons).

The nice thing about the A rating is that you can go there and not worry about whatever you do getting you into trouble. I rent my multi-scene skybox specifically in an A region instead of an M region (which is the default) for that reason, and generally feel more comfortable going to A regions. That said, I am amazed at the sites and activities I see going on in M regions. Not sure how it passes, but it's the owner's concern, not mine.

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Speaking as someone who is not interested in sex or its many and interesting associated activities, I can confidently say that, if there is more sexual content in SL than formerly, it's really well hidden away, cuz I sure ain't seeing it.

Speaking as someone who has been in SL for over 12 years, and has had a lot of interest in sex and and its many and interesting associated activities, I completely agree that overall there seems to be less 'in your face' sex than in the past. And in my experience, far fewer (as in almost none, even in mixed-gender sex sims) naked men with enormous attachments walking about. SL has gentrified quite a lot, and is far, far less of the wide-open, anything-goes place it once was. Probably a good thing to the vast majority of upstanding citizens, but a far more boring and bland place to a lot of us.~

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11 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

Although it may be true only of the places I go, which tend to be places where people are striving to look good and expect that of others, my experience is that if you want people to interact with you, you need to be all mesh. 

You may well be right. I'm not inworld enough to be forming relationships or participating in communities in any meaningful way (though I have created a traveller character to wander through Arabian Nights sims for one-off RP here and there) so it isn't such an issue for me even though I'm meshed up. For the most part, I'm just looking to take advantage of the more advanced graphics and aesthetics that seem to me to be the main focus these days. I had a snowboarding session the other week which I enjoyed far more than the time I tried it in RL and just before Christmas, I got myself into the mood by buying a beautiful long winter coat and exploring a few winter wonderland sims. It's working for me for now.

If I decided to do intimate RP again then I'd dedicate some more time and money to my appearance. I do like having a beautiful av but it just takes so much more time now and I get tired and cranky if I have to spend too long traipsing around places, demo-ing everything and it all still looks wrong and faffing with tiny attachments, rigging, baked on this, appliers that, HUD up the wazoo and all the rest of it, now it's not just "wear the shape/skin/hair". I'd actually use a personal av shopper service if I could find one who could do what I like.

But it's not necessary for what I'm inworld for these days, so I'm fine with it for now.

Edited by Amina Sopwith
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1 hour ago, Tolya Ugajin said:

Yeah, about the only thing I can think of that has "improved" in SL in the last 10 years is stuff looks more realistic.  Unfortunately, as in RL, beauty is skin deep.

SL is certainly far prettier now! To paraphrase the old song says, though, something's gained but something's lost.

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3 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I'm not the one going off the deep end whenever they see someone say they don't have pixel sex or expresses an opinion regarding pixel sex in SL. Just as sex in SL will still be there when they shut the servers down, those of us who don't have internet sex will be as well.

On the other hand, I did momentarily forget that you do like fighting with others, by your own admission. I'll leave it at that.

Selene, yes, I do get ticked when I see threads turn into #notallavatars malarkey when the adult side of SL is brought up. And if people can loudly express their distaste for SL sex, why can't I express my opinion as well?

Yes, I will admit that my little aside about alts was uncalled for, not certainly true. There are lots of people who never have pixel sex, never have, and never will. Good for them, and good for you as well. You do you. My question was about why the people who don't have pixel sex have to get so snotty about people who do. 

Perhaps since you aren't one of us who live on the naughty side of SL, you don't see the disdain those of us who enjoy the adult sexual content receive. It has become institutionalized (look at where the adult section of these forums are, as well as the drop-down list) and acceptable to make fun of sexually open people in SL. People on these forums get utterly bent out of shape when anyone dares suggest that people should upgrade their avatars and accuse people of being snobby or elitist or shallow. It's just awful to look down your nose at people who chose not to upgrade their avatars, but perfectly fine to look down your nose at people who have pixel sex and use the platform to explore their kinks and fetishes.

Why is that? I'm not going off the deep end about this, it's a serious question. 

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4 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

I got myself into the mood by buying a beautiful long winter coat and exploring a few winter wonderland sims. It's working for me for now.

Funny, I saw a beautiful Russian winter sim in (I think?) Destinations after I created my new account, and though I am totally against fur IRL, thought it would be lovely to get a Dr Zhivago outfit and go take some photos there. As usual, I went there first to scout the place, and was immediately booted because my avi was not 30-days-old. Hmm, OK, scratch that.~

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3 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Perhaps since you aren't one of us who live on the naughty side of SL, you don't see the disdain those of us who enjoy the adult sexual content receive. It has become institutionalized (look at where the adult section of these forums are, as well as the drop-down list) and acceptable to make fun of sexually open people in SL.... It's just awful to look down your nose at people who chose not to upgrade their avatars, but perfectly fine to look down your nose at people who have pixel sex and use the platform to explore their kinks and fetishes.

I have to say that this hasn't been my personal experience, although it's been a while since I "played" in SL. I haven't got any issue with the adult forum being at the bottom of the screen...it's easily accessible and open, just not very easy to stumble over if you don't fancy it. The top shelf, if you will. The fact that it's there on the same webpage as People, Land, Commerce and so on suggests it's pretty widely accepted. 

I have seen people criticise AFK sex, but that seems, on the whole, to be more about its saturation level and, well, it is a talking point when one of the most ubiquitous sexual subcultures is all about not interacting with a person. It must make it harder to form communities and I've no idea what you'd talk about when you go down the pub later. 

Sure, there are people who don't like or understand BDSM. But really, if you mention on here or in SL that you wear a spanker or have a master/mistress/500 slaves, I really think that most people let it wash over them. 

Obviously I'll make fun of Goreans at any opportunity but that fruit is so low hanging that we mostly trip and fall on it. 

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29 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

The nice thing about the A rating is that you can go there and not worry about whatever you do getting you into trouble. I rent my multi-scene skybox specifically in an A region instead of an M region (which is the default) for that reason, and generally feel more comfortable going to A regions. That said, I am amazed at the sites and activities I see going on in M regions. Not sure how it passes, but it's the owner's concern, not mine.

Speaking as someone who has been in SL for over 12 years, and has had a lot of interest in sex and and its many and interesting associated activities, I completely agree that overall there seems to be less 'in your face' sex than in the past. And in my experience, far fewer (as in almost none, even in mixed-gender sex sims) naked men with enormous attachments walking about. SL has gentrified quite a lot, and is far, far less of the wide-open, anything-goes place it once was. Probably a good thing to the vast majority of upstanding citizens, but a far more boring and bland place to a lot of us.~

I think that, to some degree anyway, these two issues are related.

On the one hand, I totally understand the temptation to resort to an "A" rating in order to preempt any problems that might arise by inadvertently (or for that matter deliberately) engaging in something that violates the guidelines for "M." In theory, your skybox is private enough that you should be able to engage in pretty much anything there without violating the guidelines for moderate regions: it's only public sex that is disallowed in such regions. But it makes sense that you should feel more comfortable, and more safe, in an "A" region.

On the other hand, the indiscriminate application of "A" ratings to regions that don't really require it is one of the reasons why it's more difficult to find adult activity when you are actually looking for it. I shop at clothing stores all the time that are, for no real reason that I can see, rated "A." I don't know, maybe an ad or vendor shows off a bit of boob? But anyone looking at the region in search, seeing it rated "A," and thinking "Ah hah! Sex!" is going to be very bitterly disappointed.

If the "A" and "M" ratings were applied more logically and appropriately, it would actually be easier to find adult content.

Your comment about gentrification reminds me a bit of the discussions that sometimes develop around Pride Day parades. In the "old days," before the LGBTQ community had become as accepted as it now is, these were edgy and very deliberately in-your-face. Now, people bring their children to watch them; unsurprisingly, they are no longer quite as edgy or protest-oriented. It's obviously wonderful that kids are being taught at a pretty early age that being gay is not merely "acceptable," but actually kind of fun and cool. But the cost of this kind of acceptance, the gentrification and mainstreaming of Pride Day, is very real.

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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10 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

Funny, I saw a beautiful Russian winter sim in (I think?) Destinations after I created my new account, and though I am totally against fur IRL, thought it would be lovely to get a Dr Zhivago outfit and go take some photos there. As usual, I went there first to scout the place, and was immediately booted because my avi was not 30-days-old. Hmm, OK, scratch that.~

Age-rejected from a non-sexual place??? How weird!

Yes, I'd never wear fur in RL but my coat has a lovely thick black trim that I am claiming as synthetic! 

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11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Then, respectfully (sort of), if you aren't willing to invest the time and effort into sustaining, yet alone building, communities, you're not in a position to whine that others aren't.

Pointing out a problem and identifying the underlying causes is not "whining", and I certainly haven't "whined" that others aren't sustaining or building communities I like.  I completely understand why people get burned out on it, having been there myself. 

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