Anyone here running HD3000?

[cheesecurd]

If any of you are using a laptop/desktop with Intel HD3000 integrated graphics i would appreciate any info to shed some light on its performance in the meantime.

Just got my new X220 in the mail, dont really have time to set everything up tonight and the next few days are going to be fairly busy.

Windows 10 and the mechanical hard drive are gonna be MIA soon and replaced with Windows 7 on an SSD.

 

I currently play on Intel GMA 950, from 2005/2006, so HD3000 is definitely a step up at about 5/6 years older. So any performance upgrade at this point is good.

[Ansariel Hiller]

Not using a HD3000, but why on earth do you want to replace Windows 10 with Windows 7 that won't get any further security updates in less than a month?

[cheesecurd]

6 minutes ago, Ansariel Hiller said:

Not using a HD3000, but why on earth do you want to replace Windows 10 with Windows 7 that won't get any further security updates in less than a month?

Updates are not important, I intend to use SP1 at that even.

I just prefer it greatly over windows 10 and it runs a lot smoother on this relatively old hardware. I was going to run some flavor of Linux but I needed a few windows only utilities.

[Ansariel Hiller]

Updates are very well important. SP1 or not doesn't matter. Imagine how "smooth" it will run with all the malware it is open for. Go at least for Windows 8.1 - it still gets security updates until 2023!

[cheesecurd]

4 hours ago, Ansariel Hiller said:

Updates are very well important. SP1 or not doesn't matter. Imagine how "smooth" it will run with all the malware it is open for. Go at least for Windows 8.1 - it still gets security updates until 2023!

I have not used antivirus, let alone even windows defender in probably over a decade. I was using XP daily until the legacy SL viewer stopped working, and even up until recently I was using Vista SP2 until the cheap SSD I had died.

I am not technologically illiterate, viruses and malware and all that don’t just show up out of nowhere. I can say from extensive experience that Microsoft dropping support for an operating system means absolutely nothing for any competent user.

I don’t think I’ve ever even updated Windows 7 on anything past SP1. Even vista I kept box stock until I tried SL which wanted SP2.

[Ansariel Hiller]

True, they don't show up out of nowhere - just as drive-by downloads from viewing ads on normal websites where those ads are served from a hacked ads server, people exploiting security holes in the Windows operating system for that you don't even need to view websites or run untrusted applications...

Sorry to say, but this is a grossly negligent behavior, especially since you're not only putting yourself at risk, but your computer could turned into a bot to harm other people out there!

Maybe I should think of something to make next Firestorm release preventing from running on Windows 7 machines next year...

[DilliDallagio]

58 minutes ago, cheesecurd said:

dropping support for an operating system means absolutely nothing for any competent user.

That is true to a point. If the user has not only the operating system but all of the applications written for that OS, they can continue merrily on their way within the realm of being really careful not to introduce any malware or similar. However, when the applications to run stop being accessible, then what?

Unless that user is competent enough to be able to use the build tools for that OS (assuming they can still be found) to rebuild the source for the applications (assuming it can be found in a state that will build with those old OS tools), there is a logical limit to how long an obsoleted OS will remain functional.

Personally I have a few machines from eras gone by that for all intents and purposes, still work. They power up, go through their boot cycles, and end up at whatever their initial user state was intended to be for that machine (shell prompt, GUI desktop, etc.). But that is it. The software for the applications to make the machines useful is on magnetic media that has trouble being read (largely audio cassette tapes but a few 8" floppies are in that batch too). I do not have the source code for any of those applications and even if I did, I do not have the build tools to compile and build.

So... yeah... competent users can use old hardware and software as long as they are aware of what it takes to continue using them... and have provided themselves with archives of all the tools and code they need in order to keep doing so.

Edited December 27, 2019 by DilliDallagio
Adding missing characters... blaming it on the keyboard... yeah, that is it... keyboard's fault

[cheesecurd]

13 minutes ago, DilliDallagio said:

However, when the applications to run stop being accessible, then what?

Non mainstream solutions, XP is still usable for quite a lot in nearly 2020 because of a lot of non Microsoft, individual user expansion.  Things like video codec packs to play webm in browsers or mkv files, browsers like New Moon or MyPal that are up to date for XP, there’s even an entire user made service pack 4 for XP.

If people want to use it, they’ll find a way to keep it alive. Hell, there’s a small population of people still using Windows 98SE/ME/2000 because you can still install a fairly functional web browser on them. And if you can browse the web, watch videos and maybe play a few games, then you have all the bases covered for 90% of home users.

The difference is that the jump from XP to Vista and 7 had a lot more people jump ship to 7. Rather than now with 7 to 8.1 and 10, there is a substantial amount of people still using 7. Almost 30% of the windows market share in fact. A lot of that is enterprise but many of those are still home users. And for many of them it’s because theyre running older machines or just don’t want to upgrade because they don’t want windows 10 for one reason or another.

I would quite literally rather eviscerate myself with this laptop than ever use Windows 10 because it’s a bloated pile of lukewarm spaghetti code that I am amazed functions at all. I’ll be using Windows 7 until it reaches the state of XP currently where less popular software such as SL ceases to function on it at all regardless of the addition of user crated patches.

The nonexistent chance of me getting drive by malware from some rouge advertisement I would never see because it’s 2019 and adblockers exist, is still better than purposely buying and installing the spyware that Windows 10 is.

[DilliDallagio]

While I can appreciate the appeal of retro-computing, there is one disclaimer that should probably be stated for those casual users who think staying with Windows 7 or older is OK...

"Do not try this at home. If you are not comfortable taking over for Microsoft or Apple (or whoever publishes your operating system) in the development and research of security countermeasures for your old system, which includes patching code or changing workflows, just stay updated with your hardware and software. Retro computing is best left in the hands of those dedicated to its goals who have the technical abilities and understanding to not create a network security problem for themselves or others."

Having stated that... why not give a modern linux a try? Intel has made some incredible gains in squeezing out every bit of performance with their iGPU processors to the point they are better than their windows driver counterparts. Intel is a major player in graphics driver development for linux and the Mesa stack.

As for not having needed software in linux, I cannot offer any sound advice without knowing what those software pieces are. However, Valve has done some wonderful things with their Proton fork of WINE, enabling (as some have stated elsewhere) 6000 Windows-only titles, including current AAA games, to play smoothly in linux. In some cases, users having both the linux version and Windows version of a title says the Windows version running under Steam/Proton runs much more smoothly than it does under Windows 10. Not being a Windows user I cannot verify any of those claims. Also, since I joined Steam only after I switched to linux, there is nothing compelling for me to try with regards to Proton as I really only play linux native or linux ported games and am satisfied with them.

I think, in general, this is an area where the TPV teams for Second Life may get a hint, and since their viewers are based mostly on code provided by Linden Lab, it should start with them. Make the viewer code playable under WINE. That translation layer works in both linux and macOS and if carried off properly should negate the need for the viewer to carry code for all three platforms. Make the Windows version work as well in WINE as it does on Windows and call it a day. As a linux user I would be happy with that. As it is right now, running the Second Life viewer under WINE IS possible but simply put, is terrible performance-wise. Single digit FPS on an empty region is NOT acceptable. At the moment, linux native viewers are comparable to Windows native, but Windows/WINE performance is a non-starter.

Edited December 27, 2019 by DilliDallagio

[Ansariel Hiller]

Being a TPV developer I can assure you nobody is gonne put time and effort into making it work great with wine for like <2% of all users.

[cheesecurd]

welp, coming back to this later for anyone who stumbles across this post in the distant future, which seems to happen often

works fine, ALM off, 64m draw distance, otherwise every setting up, not that those matter too much, no AA

decent framerates overall, considering this same area on my thinkpad z61t would get 2-3fps at bare minimum settings in 1280x800, this is pretty decent for being from 2011