Merchants asking for "applications" for full perm products

[Paul Hexem]

I'm noticing a new trend popping up.

I buy a lot of full perm mesh for my own scripts/textures. Lately however, something new is happening.

I buy full permission, and I get an item that's copy/mod, and includes a notecard that says "fill this application and submit it for the full permissions version".

At first I was tempted to just fill out the notecard, but now I'm thinking of flagging their listings instead. What would you do?

[animats]

Flag. I've dealt with sellers who sell full permission with a license, and sellers who only sell full permission if you discuss with them first. That's fine. But selling full perm and delivering non full perm is false advertising.

[Chic Aeon]

45 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

I'm noticing a new trend popping up.

I buy a lot of full perm mesh for my own scripts/textures. Lately however, something new is happening.

I buy full permission, and I get an item that's copy/mod, and includes a notecard that says "fill this application and submit it for the full permissions version".

At first I was tempted to just fill out the notecard, but now I'm thinking of flagging their listings instead. What would you do?

If it doesn't explain the rules in the listing then the listing isn't a valid listing. There is a choice in the flagging I think for "not as advertised" or something like that. The seller certainly has a right to ask for more info I guess, but that should be spelled out BEFORE the sale. Unfortunately this is the same in some products in RL (on Amazon) so not just an SL thing.  

[Kweopi]

10 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

At first I was tempted to just fill out the notecard, but now I'm thinking of flagging their listings instead. What would you do?

i'll fill the notecard ( you paid for the item, you must own it) then flag it  too.rules are so simple. If you check the CMT boxes, the products inside have to be CMT.

[Paul Hexem]

To make matters even more interesting, the seller sent me an IM and is now refusing to provide the full permission version because of my poor review. 

Now I know why people were copybotting his products. 

[OptimoMaximo]

26 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

To make matters even more interesting, the seller sent me an IM and is now refusing to provide the full permission version because of my poor review. 

Now I know why people were copybotting his products. 

Withdraw the review, apologize to the seller, get your FP item then review it again and flag it. And make sure to spread the deserved word of mouth, the most powerful form of advertisement, in every environment you can. 

[Alyona Su]

55 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

To make matters even more interesting, the seller sent me an IM and is now refusing to provide the full permission version because of my poor review. 

Now I know why people were copybotting his products. 

How could you not know this is exactly what would happen by posting the review *before* satisfying his terms? Just asking. Give it up, you'll never get what you paid for now. Cut your loses, AR him, flag his product. It's all you have left because as far as that creator is concerned: you're done.

[Paul Hexem]

1 hour ago, OptimoMaximo said:

Withdraw the review, apologize to the seller, get your FP item then review it again and flag it. And make sure to spread the deserved word of mouth, the most powerful form of advertisement, in every environment you can. 

 

37 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

How could you not know this is exactly what would happen by posting the review *before* satisfying his terms? Just asking. Give it up, you'll never get what you paid for now. Cut your loses, AR him, flag his product. It's all you have left because as far as that creator is concerned: you're done.

I already knew I wouldn't be getting it, his application form asks for things like the price I was going to charge and info about my store, all stuff I would have left blank anyway, even if I did jump through his hoops. 

None of that is the point.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Gadget Portal

[OptimoMaximo]

10 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

None of that is the point

If i may ask, what is the point then? At least go ahead and flag it if you haven't yet (at this point I expect you already did though) 

[Artorius Constantine]

If you list it with Full Perms you should deliver it Full perms. To do less is false advertising.

I bought from a merchant that did that to me and I was PO'd because the wording in the ad was vague (alluded to "some" items "possibly" being restricted until an application had been filed, it did NOT say "You are getting all "no transfer" items), and the perms were listed as full.

I did get my FP item after jumping through hoops, I suppose i should have reported that listing after that but I didn't.

I do know I will never buy from that type of listing again. It's fine for them to restrict it to an application process, but that needs to be clearly laid out and the ad NOT listed as a Full Perm item.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Artorius Constantine

[JUSTUS Palianta]

They are doing this to prevent the copy botters buying the FP item and uploading it for sale on the marketplace and selling it as there own.

Even though there is a flagging system and a DMCA system as soon as you flag one copy botter store another one pops up with all your stuff again, and again, and again.  Until you whole life is consumed with flagging and DMCA's and you dont even feel creative anymore because you are always chasing your tail.

That is why they want to check your store and check you look reputable.  And to check you are not on any copy botter lists they have assembled with there friends.

They normally include a non transferrable item and a application to get the Full Perm one.  This is so you can continue your work while you wait for one with more permissions.

I know its wrong, i know it sux, but they are only reacting to a serious problem that is not being addressed ...

I agree they should explain it better in the listing but then they would not sell as many.

If the problem was addressed full perm creators would not of resorted to this dirty tactic on there own customers ... do you think they want to do this?

The only other alternative is that the full perm creators stop creating, and many have, that just means everyone misses out.

Edited December 24, 2019 by JUSTUS Palianta

[Paul Hexem]

13 hours ago, OptimoMaximo said:

If i may ask, what is the point then? At least go ahead and flag it if you haven't yet (at this point I expect you already did though) 

The point is the discussion on them doing it, not my getting the product or not.

25 minutes ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

They are doing this to prevent the copy botters buying the FP item and uploading it for sale on the marketplace and selling it as there own.

Copybotters don't need to buy the product, they can copy right off the demo and/or rezzer. It does nothing to slow them down, only gets your listings flagged for violating the rules. 

Worse, it actually encourages copybotting, because now your customers may resort to that to get the permissions they paid for.

31 minutes ago, JUSTUS Palianta said:

Even though there is a flagging system and a DMCA system as soon as you flag one copy botter store another one pops up with all your stuff again, and again, and again.  Until you whole life is consumed with flagging and DMCA's and you dont even feel creative anymore because you are always chasing your tail.

That is why they want to check your store and check you look reputable.  And to check you are not on any copy botter lists they have assembled with there friends.

They normally include a non transferrable item and a application to get the Full Perm one.  This is so you can continue your work while you wait for one with more permissions.

I know its wrong, i know it sux, but they are only reacting to a serious problem that is not being addressed ...

I agree they should explain it better in the listing but then they would not sell as many.

If the problem was addressed full perm creators would not of resorted to this dirty tactic on there own customers ... do you think they want to do this?

The only other alternative is that the full perm creators stop creating, and many have, that just means everyone misses out.

Everything about your post is a problem. 

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

The point is the discussion on them doing it

Well I'm glad you brought this to our attention, Gadget. I'm trying to think what I would do if it happens to me. You say it's getting more common?

On the one hand it feels like a horrible thing to do to a customer, like tricking them and then holding them hostage. Yet on the other hand I feel concern for the merchant who sounds like they've gone off on the deep end with some sort of control fixation due to having their hard work stolen.

On the balance of it, I estimate it will cause them to have less sales overall due to annoyed customers    

Edited December 24, 2019 by Luna Bliss

[Paul Hexem]

37 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well I'm glad you brought this to our attention, Gadget. I'm trying to think what I would do if it happens to me. You say it's getting more common?

On the one hand it feels like a horrible thing to do to a customer, like tricking them and then holding them hostage. Yet on the other hand I feel concern for the merchant who sounds like they've gone off on the deep end with some sort of control fixation due to having their hard work stolen.

On the balance of it, I estimate it will cause them to have less sales overall due to annoyed customers    

My concern, as a creator myself, is that it'll legitimize copybotting if it becomes a common practice. LL calls it a resident to resident dispute, and you won't be able to DMCA the resident that can show the transaction history that says they bought your item full perms, so the DMCA process will become even more useless than it is already.

Or alternatively, make LL have to deal with a whole lot more disputed charges with Paypal/credit cards. Linden Lab is already blacklisted as a scam company by a number of payment processors as is.

[Lyssa Greymoon]

On 12/22/2019 at 10:54 PM, Gadget Portal said:

At first I was tempted to just fill out the notecard, but now I'm thinking of flagging their listings instead. What would you do?

I would have filled in the notecard by deleting everything on it and pasting in a copy of the transaction record.

[Kweopi]

On 12/24/2019 at 9:40 PM, JUSTUS Palianta said:

They are doing this to prevent the copy botters buying the FP item and uploading it for sale on the marketplace and selling it as there own.

That is why they want to check your store and check you look reputable.  And to check you are not on any copy botter lists they have assembled with there friends.

 

    copybotters don't need full perm items .They use some "tools" to copy all items they find, no matter the permisions.There are other kind of bad people , the ones who don't respect TOS  but they buy the items. And only one without brain will think a "copybotter' will use his real acount to buy/ sell stolen items . They use alts, so the creator and his friends only have useless long lists of alts , most of them inactive or banned.And who decide who is reputable or not? If someone new decide to get the FP items and resell them, will be banned because he/she don't look reputable?Theat people like they are thieves and you will kill your customer base.

On 12/24/2019 at 9:40 PM, JUSTUS Palianta said:

They normally include a non transferrable item and a application to get the Full Perm one.  This is so you can continue your work while you wait for one with more permissions.

 

So work few hours on an non transfer item then do same work again when the real product came. Good job Sisiphus.No good deed remain unpunished

On 12/24/2019 at 9:40 PM, JUSTUS Palianta said:

I agree they should explain it better in the listing but then they would not sell as many.

So false advertising is ok as long as they make money. You know that makes them no better than copybotters? Fight injustice with injustice. What can be more wrong than that?

 

On 12/24/2019 at 9:40 PM, JUSTUS Palianta said:

If the problem was addressed full perm creators would not of resorted to this dirty tactic on there own customers ... do you think they want to do this?

The only other alternative is that the full perm creators stop creating, and many have, that just means everyone misses out.

Honey, is life. Any game creator, any movie maker knows his products will be avaible on pirate sites in few days from release.Do they stop creating? no. How you will feel if you go to a movie, they get your money for the ticket but not let you in to actual see it, because you look to shady and is possible you will copy it?The Marvel/disney movies are the most pirated on internet and that did not stop disney to be the best money grabber in all industry.

 

   *** About the poster : Kweopi is a professional demotivator with multiple experiences in ruining dreams during Christmas since 2009.

[Paul Hexem]

1 hour ago, Kweopi said:

Honey, is life. Any game creator, any movie maker knows his products will be avaible on pirate sites in few days from release.Do they stop creating? no. How you will feel if you go to a movie, they get your money for the ticket but not let you in to actual see it, because you look to shady and is possible you will copy it?The Marvel/disney movies are the most pirated on internet and that did not stop disney to be the best money grabber in all industry.

This is the take away.

If you can't handle your creations being stolen sometimes, don't be a creator.

[ChinRey]

4 hours ago, Kweopi said:

So false advertising is ok as long as they make money.

It certainly is on MP, yes.