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Gopi Passiflora

Do you have any preferred pronouns?

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1 minute ago, Fauve Aeon said:

I will mess that up, but it is not intentional

Me also. But we try because we care, and that's what matters, I think, most.

2 minutes ago, Fauve Aeon said:

I’ve never experienced gender dysphoria but I have heard the raw pain in those who have. If using a certain pronoun mitigates even an iota of that for anyone, I’m always glad to do it.

Yes. Thank you: beautifully and movingly said.

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"Do you have any preferred pronouns?"  That is the topic, and I'll respond to it exactly.

I prefer any and all pronouns in common usage.  Those are:

all

another

any

anybody

anyone

anything

as

aught

both

each

each other

either

enough

everybody

everyone

everything

few

he

her

hers

herself

him

himself

his

I

idem

it

its

itself

many

me

mine

most

my

myself

naught

neither

no one

nobody

none

nothing

nought

one

one another

other

others

ought

our

ours

ourself

ourselves

several

she

some

somebody

someone

something

somewhat

such

suchlike

that

thee

their

theirs

theirself

theirselves

them

themself

themselves

there

these

they

thine

this

those

thou

thy

thyself

us

we

what

whatever

whatnot

whatsoever

whence

where

whereby

wherefrom

wherein

whereinto

whereof

whereon

wherever

wheresoever

whereto

whereunto

wherewith

wherewithal

whether

which

whichever

whichsoever

who

whoever

whom

whomever

whomso

whomsoever

whose

whosever

whosesoever

whoso

whosoever

ye

yon

yonder

you

your

yours

yourself

yourselves

 

(I checked!)

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My pronouns are she/her.

I'm writing down the non-standard pronouns that people here have specified so that I don't offend them in the future. 

Edited by Bree Giffen
Grammar
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55 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

aught

   Ooh ... This one I was unfamiliar with. But it makes sense; naught and aught.

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7 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Ooh ... This one I was unfamiliar with. But it makes sense; naught and aught.

Those are where the Yorkshire versions "nowt" and "owt" come from.

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Just now, Matty Luminos said:

Those are where the Yorkshire versions "nowt" and "owt" come from.

“Ear all, see all, say nowt;
Eyt all, sup all, pay nowt;
And if ivver tha does owt fer nowt -
Allus do it fer thissen”

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5 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

“Ear all, see all, say nowt;
Eyt all, sup all, pay nowt;
And if ivver tha does owt fer nowt -
Allus do it fer thissen”

Two more pronouns right there; tha and thissen.

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i don't have preferred pronouns, I have my actual pronouns: they/them/she/her (i'm greedy).

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1 hour ago, Matty Luminos said:

Two more pronouns right there; tha and thissen.

I'll gladly add the Yorkshire pronouns, they have such flavor.  I'm waffling on "idem" though...it's in the list, but I've never heard owt of it!

(My introduction to Yorkshire dialect was Peter S. Beagle's Tamsin.  Along with A Wizard of Earthsea, it's a book I keep coming back to again and again.  Some books are like perfect jewels, you can look at them forever and not tire of them.)

Edited by Lindal Kidd

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1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I'll gladly add the Yorkshire pronouns, they have such flavor.  I'm waffling on "idem" though...it's in the list, but I've never heard owt of it!

(My introduction to Yorkshire dialect was Peter S. Beagle's Tamsin.  Along with A Wizard of Earthsea, it's a book I keep coming back to again and again.  Some books are like perfect jewels, you can look at them forever and not tire of them.)

I don't recognise 'idem'; it's not something I heard my mother or her family say.  Perhaps if I heard it I might recognise it.

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When I was a child, I had a "homework booklet" from Sunday school, to record however many minutes of Bible reading and whatever I was meant to be doing each night. The first page had a message for parents and throughout it, the child whose booklet it was was referred to as "he", "his" and "him". I was very young, but it upset and angered me significantly. I couldn't articulate or fully understand the sense of exclusion and invalidation, as if I as a girl didn't actually exist and could just be assimilated, Borg-like, by any random boy, but I felt it extremely keenly. I could not understand why they'd done it. I wasn't a boy and neither were half the children in the class. Why, I asked my parents, could they not have just added a few extra letters throughout to make s/he, his/her and him/her? Or even just referred to "they", "their" and "them" throughout? Why were they pretending that half the children, the girl children, didn't exist? 

Obviously I was told that I was being oversensitive, that I always overthought things, that everyone knew what they meant, that I was being really silly, that it wasn't important, that my feelings on it - my simple wish to have my existence as a girl child acknowledged - were not valid and didn't matter. Well they mattered to me. I scribbled over all the pronouns to make them properly inclusive of both genders and I showed my teacher (who, to be fair, did not mind). My parents rolled their eyes, they knew what I was like. 

This is what I think about when trans people ask us to use their preferred pronouns. 

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I'm very much all female. I prefer the pronouns she and her. I also at times will refer to myself as we or us so them or they are alright too

I try to always use pronouns individuals prefer for themselves because kindness cost nothing and goes a long way in making others feel more comfortable in their own skin.

Edited by LyricalBookworm
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20 hours ago, LexxiXhan said:

i don't have preferred pronouns, I have my actual pronouns: they/them/she/her (i'm greedy).

"Preferred" pronouns ARE "actual" pronouns. 

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9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

"Preferred" pronouns ARE "actual" pronouns. 

Perhaps. Though these type of pronouns are usually used to describe a person absent from the main communication. So if you prefer one or the other, and you are being mentioned in a discussion that you are not directly part of, why does it actually matter in that case? I don't ask this to be flippant, it's a serious question.

In short, what I am saying is that this is mole-hill is being made into a mountain for no respectable reason. Along the same lines I will demand that everyone use the phrase "Merry Christmas" and anything other than that will *offend me*. Am I the only one that sees the apparent silliness in this?

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2 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Perhaps. Though these type of pronouns are usually used to describe a person absent from the main communication. So if you prefer one or the other, and you are being mentioned in a discussion that you are not directly part of, why does it actually matter in that case? I don't ask this to be flippant, it's a serious question.

In short, what I am saying is that this is mole-hill is being made into a mountain for no respectable reason. Along the same lines I will demand that everyone use the phrase "Merry Christmas" and anything other than that will *offend me*. Am I the only one that sees the apparent silliness in this?

I think I understand what you are saying, and agree, to a point, although I don't know that I'd call it silliness. (Although I might.) There's the reasonable middle (imho), where people have personal "preferences" to pronouns and people try their best to comply, to be respectful. Then there are the extremes, the folks that won't budge from using he when the other person has clearly stated she, and then on the other side the folks who are just looking to be offended by everything all of the time, who will get extremely vocal if someone accidentally uses the wrong pronoun. Intent and context and respect are rather marvelous things.

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4 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Though these type of pronouns are usually used to describe a person absent from the main communication. So if you prefer one or the other, and you are being mentioned in a discussion that you are not directly part of, why does it actually matter in that case? I don't ask this to be flippant, it's a serious question.

It matters because this isn't about "not offending" someone, or hurting their feelings, or being polite. It's about social recognition of the reality that someone is gendered in a particular way. It's an acknowledgment of their right -- and ultimately also yours and mine -- to be the one who decides who they are. When someone chooses to misgender a trans or non-binary person, even if they are not "present" on the occasion to be offended, they are explicitly denying the right of that person to determine who they are.

Trans and non-binary people don't want your courtesy or "sensitivity." They want you, and everyone else, to acknowledge that they are the ones who understand their own nature, and that they, not you or society, should be the ones who get to determine who they are.

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9 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Perhaps. Though these type of pronouns are usually used to describe a person absent from the main communication. So if you prefer one or the other, and you are being mentioned in a discussion that you are not directly part of, why does it actually matter in that case? I don't ask this to be flippant, it's a serious question.

In short, what I am saying is that this is mole-hill is being made into a mountain for no respectable reason. Along the same lines I will demand that everyone use the phrase "Merry Christmas" and anything other than that will *offend me*. Am I the only one that sees the apparent silliness in this?

To me, the simple and easy answer to your question is "Because they say it does" and that's good enough for me, and should be good enough for everyone. I may not always be around when people are talking about me, but since my name is Beth, I prefer they use that instead of "Brunhilda". Does it really make a difference since I can't hear it? What about the big N word? If black people don't actually hear people using it, is it still offensive? 

Why not just make it a practice of calling people what they want to be called? 

Wishing someone Happy Holidays rather than Merry Christmas is inclusive, not exclusive. Would it be offensive if I were Jewish and people insisted on looking me right in the eye and saying "YOU HAVE A MERRY CHRISTMAS?" Yes. Same as it is as an agnostic when it comes to people who are well aware that I'm not Christian, and it happens all the freaking time and the utter selfishness of these people who are absolutely, positively not at all Christ-like has quite a bit to do with my dislike of Christmas. Happy Holidays is all-encompassing and the only people offended by that are those extraordinarily unChristian Christians, and if I offend them, I consider it a win. 

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I think there will always be a few people who will (ab)use them in a belligerent way, like everything else. Both pushing for and arguing against in subtle and not so subtle ways. It’s difficult, people have lots of feelings about how they are portrayed, perceived, received, rejected.

The Merry Christmas example is one of trying to force people into referring to the winter holidays, something that is not inherently personal, in only your one way, ...but personal pronouns are specifically about and refer to the self and so I think exercising some jurisdiction over what you are called or how you are referred to as a person to better reflect who you are is OK. People are often referred to by a pronoun within their hearing. especially younger people and students. It has an impact.

I collect ball jointed dolls with interchangeable parts and I write character stories for a few. I have one character that I started in 2009 who is just represented by a faceplate that can be put on a male or female doll and they frequently body-snatch...I have always used the Z pronouns because it just ’fits’. So while I fortunately don’t need to (re)define it personally, I also see the topic as an important one for exploring character narratives too. Funny thing that in 2009, some fellow doll hobby people found the pronouns in my story quite pretentious. Now, not so much. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

these type of pronouns are usually used to describe a person absent from the main communication. So if you prefer one or the other, and you are being mentioned in a discussion that you are not directly part of, why does it actually matter in that case?

Alyona, I would hate to see my reaction if in your absence somebody referred to you as 'moon-eyes' or any other pejorative name used to denigrate those of Asian descent -- I would be all over them in your defense.
It's easy to see the lack of respect leveled at somebody when calling them a direct, nasty name -- but when you won't even ALLOW someone to have a name it's actually far, far worse. You know, there's something insulting about not allowing another to exist!

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34 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Perhaps. Though these type of pronouns are usually used to describe a person absent from the main communication. So if you prefer one or the other, and you are being mentioned in a discussion that you are not directly part of, why does it actually matter in that case? I don't ask this to be flippant, it's a serious question.

In short, what I am saying is that this is mole-hill is being made into a mountain for no respectable reason. Along the same lines I will demand that everyone use the phrase "Merry Christmas" and anything other than that will *offend me*. Am I the only one that sees the apparent silliness in this?

Part of the reason is that society is learning about how to show respect for Trans, non-binary folks and others by using the pronouns they prefer. People who willfully refuse to do that, are showing disrespect. I heard "they" was used as a singular pronoun first referenced in the 1370's (Oxford English dictionary).

In the same news story, it was explained that before "you", people said "thou". Did people freak out during the switch to "you"? We don't know.

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