What is wrong with Events?

[Fressca]

Why do I see events listed that happened 10-12 hours before? And then have to go through 47 pages to reach current time or upcoming events?

[Belle Kingmaker]

Probably because Second Life is now charging 10L$ per submitted event and they haven't gotten their act together yet...

[Maitimo]

I think its because of the new charges. Some club owners are now combining their days events into one post of 12 hours instead of 6 posts at 2 hours each.

[Fressca]

It is annoying...for whatever the reason. I don't like the idea of charges for posting, either.

[Luc Morningstar]

The issues plaguing the Events page go back several months. There has been extreme overcrowding in the Nightlife/Entertainment category due to far too many Adult Entertainment clubs suddenly discovering they can post events, and multi-posting under multiple accounts - thus creating up to 80 pages of events. The overcrowding in the Live Music category is due to people posting DJs there now because of the overcrowding in Nightlife/Entertainment.

LL is charging now to discourage such behaviour.

I think it's a good idea, but frankly, they aren't charging *enough*. $L50 and $L10 is a fraction of what most people tip. Anyone, even posting abusers, can afford that. It will do little to discourage the abuse.  A more realistic fee would be $L200 [0.78 USD] (non-Premium) and $L100 [0.39 USD] (Premium). (These are the equivalent to what one or two persons usually tip.)

They should also create a new category: Adult Nightlife/Entertainment and forbid Adult themed events in the original Nightlife/Entertainment category. Forbidding DJs being posted under Live Music wouldn't hurt either. Increasing the number of listings per "page" would also help. It is easier to get through 10 pages of 45 listings than 29 pages of 15 (or more).

That would clear up most of the issues, while still giving Adult venues a space to post their events. Charging more would discourage most people from posting the same venues/events under multiple accounts.

Edited December 5, 2019 by LuciferaAeterna

[Alyona Su]

4 hours ago, Matty Luminos said:

I think its because of the new charges. Some club owners are now combining their days events into one post of 12 hours instead of 6 posts at 2 hours each.

So... they are doing it right, then? Amazing!

[Maitimo]

4 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

So... they are doing it right, then? Amazing!

Wonders will never cease, eh? 😁

[Alyona Su]

4 minutes ago, Matty Luminos said:

Wonders will never cease, eh? 😁

I agree. The idea of "less is more" is a genuine think. I thing we are using the word of "spam" colloquially for the real issue is that it's all so much "noise" - each announcement is drowned out by every other announcement around it and they all try to out-do each other.

Perhaps this new policy of paying for event listing will help tone all that down and, at the least, get those posting them to think a little more about what they say and how they say it. I see that as a win-win for all of us: Perusers and Posters alike.

Edited December 5, 2019 by Alyona Su

[Maitimo]

The ironic thing is, it doesn't help to spam multiple listings for the same event. The original one is there anyway. And as they are shown in the order they were posted, the original one still shows first. 

The best plan is to post once, but post it well in advance, to ensure that your event is nearer the top of the list for that time-slot.

[Jaylinbridges]

10 hours ago, LuciferaAeterna said:

They should also create a new category: Adult Nightlife/Entertainment and forbid Adult themed events in the original Nightlife/Entertainment category. Forbidding DJs being posted under Live Music wouldn't hurt either. Increasing the number of listings per "page" would also help. It is easier to get through 10 pages of 45 listings than 29 pages of 15 (or more).

That would clear up most of the issues, while still giving Adult venues a space to post their events. Charging more would discourage most people from posting the same venues/events under multiple accounts.

Same thing I suggested, and it would not require extra fees either.  Charging will cause non sex M-rated music/dance clubs to combine all events into one event per day. This is NOT doing it right if you want to search for a particular artist or DJ.  The artist/performer/DJ names are NOT listed in the combo event name.  Therefore there is no way to search for them.  You have to page through all the venues looking for the one a day listing, open that listing, and see if who you are searching for is there. Do this for every day there is a listing until you find your artist.  This is big step backward, vs present method:  Enter artist name in Search box and instantly see all venues and times they are playing. 10 secs vs 10 mins searching through combo listings.

You should also use the Firestorm in-viewer search.  The LL web based search lists 15 events/page, and does NOT list all the details of the event (unless you open another web page for that event - ugh).  And yes you have to page forever to find an event unless you use Search.  But Search tells you nothing about the actual event anymore for a combo posting.  There is not enough room to list the details for all six events in one event listing.   The original V1 Search got it right, and it is still in Firestorm and Singularity.  But nobody seems to know this or care.  And as most here admit, they have not used SL Events for years, and do not know how to use it or where to find the best display format. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Jaylinbridges

[Fressca]

It is annoying...for whatever the reason. I don't like the idea of charges for posting, either.

I agree that a separate category for the adult themed clubs would be a good idea. Bumping the cost up? Not sure that will work...many can afford to pay the fees, even if they are higher...a hostess that is trying to earn tier...she may not be able to do that. I am sure that someone with a brilliant mind with find a way to fix this and just as sure that someone with a deviant mind will find a way around the rules. 

 

[Fressca]

Maybe a separate listing for DJ's and/or live music would be a good thing. 

 

[Luc Morningstar]

10 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Charging will cause non sex M-rated music/dance clubs to combine all events into one event per day.

You do realise that what they are currently charging per event works out to L10 = $0.04 USD and L50 = $0.20 USD, right? If you can't afford to spend that, SL is already too expensive for you. At current rates, you can post 5 events for an American dollar if you're non-Premium, and nearly two dozen if you are. Per day.

I run a non-sex, M rated music club venue. A small one. 25 people tops a night. I would happily pay L100 [$0.39 USD]  per listing, which is about what the average patron tips, if it would keep the overcrowding down, and allow my events visibility again. $1.95 USD is not too much to my mind to pay to get the patrons in.

Edited December 6, 2019 by LuciferaAeterna

[Jaylinbridges]

9 hours ago, LuciferaAeterna said:

$1.95 USD is not too much to my mind to pay to get the patrons in.

The owner at my club must think it is, since to reduce this added expense he has directed the staff event poster to post one combo event per day. There are about 42 events/week (12 hrs of active events/day), which if posted individually just once per event would cost around 9000 $L/month extra.  He also pays a salary to two staff managers, pays for a Live singer event 5 times/month at about 2500 $L/event, and of course pays the full sim tier for a private island.   With the shop and apartment rentals, and venue tip jars he is lucky for the club to break even each month.  Adding another $36 USD expense/month would mean he operates at a loss.   His club has been operating continuously in SL for eleven years, with the same owner and manager, and much of the same staff, and has never shut down or even moved location.  Not many music venues can claim that - so it's possible he knows what he is doing. 

I disagree with his cost saving decision of one combo event/day for 6 performers, because one can no longer search for a performer by name, and the one event/day is posted around 2pm slt.  By the evening hours, the event posting will no longer show up in a daily ongoing list in the Nightlife listing.  Most event seekers only check ongoing listings, which with the multiple page listings, hide the earlier combo event post.   Since events are sorted by date and time, nobody will page backwards to find a future event in real time.  That is not intuitive, and was not needed before the fees and combo postings started this week.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Jaylinbridges

[Luc Morningstar]

4 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

The owner at my club must think it is, since to reduce this added expense he has directed the staff event poster to post one combo event per day. There are about 42 events/week (12 hrs of active events/day), which if posted individually just once per event would cost around 9000 $L/month extra.  He also pays a salary to two staff managers, pays for a Live singer event 5 times/month at about 2500 $L/event, and of course pays the full sim tier for a private island.   With the shop and apartment rentals, and venue tip jars he is lucky for the club to break even each month.  Adding another $36 USD expense/month would mean he operates at a loss.   His club has been operating continuously in SL for eleven years, with the same owner and manager, and much of the same staff, and has never shut down or even moved location.  Not many music venues can claim that - so it's possible he knows what he is doing. 

I disagree with his cost saving decision of one combo event/day for 6 performers, because one can no longer search for a performer by name, and the one event/day is posted around 2pm slt.  By the evening hours, the event posting will no longer show up in a daily ongoing list in the Nightlife listing.  Most event seekers only check ongoing listings, which with the multiple page listings, hide the earlier combo event post.   Since events are sorted by date and time, nobody will page backwards to find a future event in real time.  That is not intuitive, and was not needed before the fees and combo postings started this week.

If setting up an advertising budget means your club owner has to rob Peter to pay Paul, he is clearly not allocating his resources well.

I pay $120 USD for a private region, have events 5 nights a week -- two regular house DJs at L2500 per hour, and rotating DJs at L1500-3000 an hour), and two live entertainers every Wed. at between L3000-5000 per gig. I run everything myself, to cut down on overhead -- I employ no staff. I have a booking manager, whom I pay L4000 a month. I limit the number of open time slots for gigs to keep things affordable and profitable. I keep spreadsheets of my expenses and income and adjust the schedule frequently to accommodate a balance of quality and quantity. (This involves being selective about who I book and when.) I am also very particular about the house DJs. I hire no one for those spots who cannot be trusted to run an event solo.

Just from your description of his operation, there are a number of areas he could reduce his overhead. (8 rather than 12 hours a day, more DJs rather than live gigs,  make live gigs weekends only - making that only two he must pay for, moving to a more affordable location, are some of the things that come to mind...) He does not *have* to run such a grandiose operation - he chooses to. (And you say "has never shut down or moved location" as if that's a virtue - real business does not run that way.) Perhaps he likes living on the margins, I don't know. $36 USD could easily be budgeted for if he would reduce his expenditure and make logistical adjustments.

His decision to cut corners by making one post with all his performers is going to bite him in the backside, for exactly the reason you mention. However, you are wrong about the fees and combo postings. The combo postings are a recent (knee-jerk) reaction to the fees. However, even before fees, one was having to go through hundreds of listings for the last four months or so due to the sudden influx of Adult postings. (Many of the Adult ads aren't even really event listings, but general adverts, which don't even belong. LL needs to step up their policing as well.)

I have been posting to the Events page for years, and this overcrowding is a recent thing. Prior to the sudden rash of Adult event listings (and a few others who seem to have discovered the Events page at around the same time), there were perhaps 3-4 current event "pages" of 15 listings each, sometimes 5 or 6. A reasonable amount to get through. Future events moved up quickly. Since the Events page has exploded in popularity, what LL should do is implement a time block drop-down menu, so you can selectively see smaller blocks of listings, and set up a few new categories as well. And venues have to stop combo posting so you can find what you're looking for, otherwise you might as well not bother. But the fees are the *only* thing that are going to discourage frivolous multi-posters - and they need to be more than a measly L10 or L50. It needs to actually cut into their profits. People who post in that fashion don't care about running a proper business, they want to pick up as many punters as possible and have a high turnover with minimal effort and expenditure. The moment advertising becomes a expense to be budgeted, they will stop posting that way.

Does this mean more serious businesses will have to get better about keeping and organising a healthy advertising budget? Sure. But that is part of the cost of doing business.

Edited December 6, 2019 by LuciferaAeterna

[Jaylinbridges]

9 hours ago, LuciferaAeterna said:

I pay $120 USD for a private region, have events 5 nights a week -- two regular house DJs at L2500 per hour, and rotating DJs at L1500-3000 an hour), and two live entertainers every Wed. at between L3000-5000 per gig. I run everything myself, to cut down on overhead -- I employ no staff. I have a booking manager, whom I pay L4000 a month. I limit the number of open time slots for gigs to keep things affordable and profitable. I keep spreadsheets of my expenses and income and adjust the schedule frequently to accommodate a balance of quality and quantity. (This involves being selective about who I book and when.) I am also very particular about the house DJs. I hire no one for those spots who cannot be trusted to run an event solo.

Just from your description of his operation, there are a number of areas he could reduce his overhead. (8 rather than 12 hours a day, more DJs rather than live gigs,  make live gigs weekends only - making that only two he must pay for, moving to a more affordable location, are some of the things that come to mind...) He does not *have* to run such a grandiose operation - he chooses to. (And you say "has never shut down or moved location" as if that's a virtue - real business does not run that way.) Perhaps he likes living on the margins, I don't know. $36 USD could easily be budgeted for if he would reduce his expenditure and make logistical adjustments.

His decision to cut corners by making one post with all his performers is going to bite him in the backside, for exactly the reason you mention. However, you are wrong about the fees and combo postings. The combo postings are a recent (knee-jerk) reaction to the fees. However, even before fees, one was having to go through hundreds of listings for the last four months or so due to the sudden influx of Adult postings. (Many of the Adult ads aren't even really event listings, but general adverts, which don't even belong. LL needs to step up their policing as well.)

I have been posting to the Events page for years, and this overcrowding is a recent thing. Prior to the sudden rash of Adult event listings (and a few others who seem to have discovered the Events page at around the same time), there were perhaps 3-4 current event "pages" of 15 listings each, sometimes 5 or 6. A reasonable amount to get through. Future events moved up quickly. Since the Events page has exploded in popularity, what LL should do is implement a time block drop-down menu, so you can selectively see smaller blocks of listings, and set up a few new categories as well. And venues have to stop combo posting so you can find what you're looking for, otherwise you might as well not bother. But the fees are the *only* thing that are going to discourage frivolous multi-posters - and they need to be more than a measly L10 or L50. It needs to actually cut into their profits. People who post in that fashion don't care about running a proper business, they want to pick up as many punters as possible and have a high turnover with minimal effort and expenditure. The moment advertising becomes a expense to be budgeted, they will stop posting that way.

Does this mean more serious businesses will have to get better about keeping and organising a healthy advertising budget? Sure. But that is part of the cost of doing business.

You run a smaller tighter business and with no managers you are substituting your own time to save overhead.  An apples and oranges difference here, but his club still works - and I doubt the SL Events makes a bit of difference in it's success.   First of all, we run about 5 Live events/month, not week.  This is a DJ club that brings in our regular house live performers for one day on a weekend, plus Live events for major holidays.  Sometimes we have 2 one hour lives/weekend, and some weeks none at all.  I think it averages out to about 5 Live acts/MONTH, actually, although in December January we might have 10 Live, to celebrate Christmas and New Years.  All the performers discount their fees because so many started their careers at our club, and have a connection to the staff and owners.

The club sim is a Full Private Region, 30K LI - with multiple levels from land/sea for homes, shops, and roleplay, plus shops and apts in the city sky platform around the club, and skyboxes and roleplay platforms up to 4000m.  We are more than just a music club on a budget.  The owner must employ staff managers, since he has a RL family, and full-time job that requires frequent travel.  Breaking even on his entire operation is all he wants to do.  We do not pay DJ's or hosts - everyone works for 100% tips only.  This self selects our DJ and hostess staff - you must be good enough to work for tips only.  Our average DJ has 10 years of experience or more, including many who started when the club first opened.

I agree with the rest of your comments, and will see if the limited SL event change makes any difference.  Most of our patrons are old, 3000 days and older - and probably show up because that's what they have always done.  The downside is eventually they will die or leave SL for the nursing homes.  But by then, I won't care either. 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by Jaylinbridges