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would you like your children to play second life?..

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Just now, Beth Macbain said:

Yes, video games have much more violence than Second Life.

   Just look at GTA. There, when you run out of cash, get bored or accidentally trip over a stripper causing everyone to freak out and come at you with their fists or baseball bats, you can blow the whole club up with a bazooka. So you get the sexytime AND the violence!

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My daughter joined SL in 2007, a few months after her 18th birthday (I actually thought she started shortly before she turned 18 but I just checked her profile and I was wrong).  She's 30 now, and is still here. We don't often hang out together now, though we did in the early days, we were newbies more or less together and she had her home on the same region as me for a while. She very quickly got involved in the anime & furry communities, which I'm not interested in at all; she made her own place in SL and I made mine. So we don't really hang out together much inworld, but if she's online at the same time as me, we chat in IMs a lot, especially since she moved into her own place. Most of last year she wasn't inworld much; she had a baby at the end of 2018, but now that her baby is a little older, my daughter has a bit more time of her own to log in.

I had no major concerns about her exposure to sexual content (what 18 year-old hasn't found sexual content online?), though I did warn her about being exploited by others. But that applies to any online venue, not just SL. Whether or not she does anything sexual in SL is none of my business. Talking about sex in general with your kids is good, but sharing specific details is probably not such a good idea. As long as she's safe and happy, then I am happy too.

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48 minutes ago, Velk Kerang said:

You never learned about sex in SL when you first started? You never not once hopped on a pose ball because a friend asked you to or see what it did or to help with animation design or anything? Nothing at all what so ever? In 15 years your telling me you didn't learn about it? No disrespect, but I think your full of it and don't need to ask anyone in order to know what you just said is bullcrap because otherwise we'd not be having this conversation. Sorry sister calling BS on that one. lol :D

 I never said I didn't "learn about sex" in SL. I said I never participated in it. I didn't need to "learn about sex" in SL since I had learned what sex is 25 years prior to joining SL.  No, I have never hopped on a sex poseball or helped with sex animations. None of that stuff even existed in early 2004 when I first joined. If it did, I never saw it. I didn't want to see it, nor did I have any need or desire to see it.

Believe whatever you want. You have no respect for others, nor can you accept others for who and what they are, and that reflects on you, not me or anyone else.

Have a nice life.

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Yeah, when I first arrived, I didn't see sex stuff everywhere. I was at a ruined castle for a few days, then I went to some freebie place and spend a lot of time there as well. Then I went to a sandbox and tried making stuff, made friends, started to explore, and then went to look at the adult stuff. And no, I didn't join SL because I heard about it being a sex game - a friend of a friend invited said friend and me to come take a look. 

No, my children will not play SL until they're adults, then they can decide what to waste their time with, lol.
I'm pretty particular with stuff like that - I rather have my children go outside and get dirty for as long as they can, and not get glued to screens as early as possible. I want an exiting, active life for my kids.

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I don't even remember what I did when I first joined aside from maybe hang out in pubbie hubs and camping linden trees for newbies, haha.

I don't have any kids of my own right now, but I will say that my mom introduced me to MMOs when I was about 12 years old and did it in such a way that she was able to teach me how to be safe there and what to avoid. Granted, your typical MMO is a lot more fenced in in terms of content, and SL can really be a wildcard.  So, if I had kids, I think I'd try to explain what I was doing/playing, but obviously would follow the guidelines for age restrictions - if you can't play til you're 16, then you can't play til you're 16. At the end of the day SL isn't really a game - it contains games, but it's more of visual platform than anything else. There's so much to do and see still even if a lot of the old hangouts are ghost towns.

TL,DR:  If my future kids are old enough to have an account by LL's terms, then sure. Just be careful and don't give out your personal information, and be aware that people can and will lie online about who they are.

Lewis - your experience is super sweet and wholesome and I love that it worked out for you and your daughter that way. 

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2 hours ago, Lewis Luminos said:

-Insert adorkabe story-

This is entirely off-topic (I know. =p ), but I just had to say that your post was probably one of the sweetest things I have ever read in all things I've read in the forms. 💛

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I would not have an issue with a child playing this game, although I technically have none to speak of. I am still trying to figure out how people get their spouses to agree to play with them!

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2 hours ago, MirandaBowers said:

I would not have an issue with a child playing this game, although I technically have none to speak of. I am still trying to figure out how people get their spouses to agree to play with them!

I managed to get my partner of 11-ish years in on it with me, but she loves to write, so it was a little easier because she's already a roleplayer/writer and once she learned there was a platform for it here, she was eager to jump in!

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I don't have kids so I can't technically answer this question but hypothetically I wouldn't have an issue with it if they were of legal age and sound mind. (Sound-ish mind perhaps, though that's a relative and subjective term as I've met a few people over the years that barely fall under that last category, but I digress. I'm sure to some I'm not sailing with an even keel either...)

As an adult it's hypocritical of me to do one thing and say another, but that wouldn't stop me worrying what they get up to or if they are mentally, emotionally, financially and physically okay with whatever presents online. As others have pointed out there are far worse platforms and games out there that kids/adult-kids can get into with equally as much dangers there if not more. At least since I'm familiar with the general workings of SL I'd feel better equipped to walk them through things if issues arose.

My bigger concern is teaching internet safety as it wasn't an issue when I was a kid. As a society we are growing so dependent on it and real issues can and do arise and have life-threatening consequences. I don't want that for anyone much less my would-be kids, but all I can do/could do is try and protect them as best I can and educate where I'm able. I think that's all any of us can really do.

There's a lot of negative aspects to online worlds but there are some good ones too. I've seen and been involved in some of the most seedy activities in SL there are, and I've also experienced the PG side too where things are perhaps a lot less risque (but the risks remain the same as with any virtual community). Of course there would always be that question or fear that when you get intimate with an avatar that it may just be your RL child on the other end and you'd hope to figure that out before things went too far! Teaching kids good communication is ideal but probably isn't always going to translate well, especially in this age of abbreviation and internet anonymity, despite social media oversaturation.

You'd hope kids know enough about Phishing, Catfishing, scammers, greifers, stalkers and such once they reach adulthood to know some basic coping mechanisms or how to get out of certain situations - and as a parent that's your job to teach them as best you can, but sadly a lot of education doesn't come until you've been in a situation that forces you to learn a hard lesson. Almost all of us had to learn life lessons that way, that's what life's all about; trial and error and learning from mistakes or triumphs. The best thing as a parent I could do is hope I taught them well enough to trust their intuition and look for warning signs to avoid certain situations, and what to do if they found themselves there... As well as to not become one of those people themselves that others need to be protected against.

As far as I'm concerned the more you tell someone they shouldn't or can't do something the more they'd be inclined to want it. In my personal opinion it's better to let them try and be there however one can be if needed (Granted we are talking about adult kids in SL only. I wouldn't have this same view if we were discussing literal underage children or other vices that must be denied them by law and for health and safety concerns like illicit drugs etc. I just wanted to add that last part in case someone suggested that as an argumental flaw).

And no I don't have kids but I have nephews and nieces that spend a lot of time online (and the eldest is almost 18). They hadn't even heard of SL (until I told them) and have no interest in it whatsoever. They follow the current trends; Fortnite, Minecraft, Red Dead Redemption, GTA whatever number they're up to now, etc. Generally there's a lot of killing of something or other. One of them plays The Sims and just like me has hacked and modded that game to pieces where they can do almost exactly what we do online in SL anyway and her parents know about it. Kids (and adult kids) will find a way and there are a LOT of avenues out there for them to try and be tempted with SL just being one.

As a parent it would be a case of better the proverbial devil I know than the one I don't. But what do I know, it's all hypothetical anyway. *shrugs* 

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7 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

The over all point people is everyone learns about it week one of hitting the game and personally I find it hard to believe people when they say they did not experience the dummy phase. I personally think they don't want to admit it.

Yeah, but the thing is, you're actively wrong on it. I have no problem with admiting that I had slex. I have very little problem with admiting that I like to dress sexy, I have way to many latex harnesses, I did erotic roleplay. sex  is awesome. 
So, I would have  no problem to admit if I was looking at sl for sex, or if that was the first thing I stumbled upon - but I just didn't. Why would I lie about that? I do not have a pure and chaste reputation I need to maintain?
 

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9 hours ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

Nope, the first thing I learned (after basic training) was how to get my first plot of land, because I didn't want to hang around forever at a Welcome Area.  I heard about the sex pretty soon but had no interest in it.  You'll just have to accept what I say because it's the truth.  You can't make it not true.

 

7 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

 

What is it with everybody and being so literal today? lol The first thing I learned was how to swing a katana sword if we really want to be technical about it. lol :D

;)

It's not a matter of being technical; you've been arguing that 'everybody' has learned about or participated in sex in SL in some way in their first week.  It took me a few weeks to hear about it - that's 'pretty soon'.  Frankly your words have been a thorny hedge of aggression to read and just as difficult to respond to.  

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9 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I am proud to be an SL virgin.

Me too!   Truth is your virginity resets every time you relog 😇

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6 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Not in the slightest bit intimidating, I’m afraid. Big man on the Internet threatening me with... what? Bad grammar?

   Fans himself.

1 hour ago, Cindy Evanier said:

Me too!   Truth is your virginity resets every time you relog 😇

   Oh? That explains why I .. Feel .. Like .. Like a ..

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11 hours ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

 

It's not a matter of being technical; you've been arguing that 'everybody' has learned about or participated in sex in SL in some way in their first week.  It took me a few weeks to hear about it - that's 'pretty soon'.  Frankly your words have been a thorny hedge of aggression to read and just as difficult to respond to.  

Ok please allow me to rephrase then. I believe that 99.9% of the population learns about it week one. I'll concede that in life there are acceptations to the rules so in those rare cases of which you obviously fit in to we'll say that represents the other 1% percent of the population. I mean the active forum members barely take up part of that 1% of the player base population of active users so we can't really tally a poll on it and expect fair and accurate results. So based off your own observations would you not say that is a more accurate an fair assessment of the situation? ;)

Oh I want to apologize for my aggressive undertones in my typing if that is what you got out of it. That's nothing intentional towards you. I didn't think I had so I am sorry if I did. I really just don't appreciate feeling like I am being attacked because of my point of view and feelings on that the matter. That is not something you did so please don't feel like any of that is being reflected in your direction. You have been a complete and total sweet heart and I thank you for that. So I am very truly sorry if I made you feel that way and that is what you got out of it. My response was more in jest with you because I just thought it was so cute when you used the term basic training. Which is why I said what I said. lol :)

Edited by Velk Kerang
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49 minutes ago, Velk Kerang said:

When it comes to my kids your opinion doesn't matter. lmao. I find amazing you actually think that it does.

   You mean like how you were telling everyone that their thoughts were invalid because of how it didn't align with your own, personal, biased, twisted opinion on the nature of Second Life?

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12 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   You mean like how you were telling everyone that their thoughts were invalid because of how it didn't align with your own, personal, biased, twisted opinion on the nature of Second Life?

And where exactly did you see me say someones thoughts where invalid? Other then in your mind that is. Personal, biased, twisted? You must be talking about yourself Jack. Anyone who has kids would read what I wrote and whether they agree or not they would have at the very least have understood why I do not promote Second Life to my kids. It really isn't rocket science Jack. 🙄

Edited by Velk Kerang
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I guess I would have to ask what age of children?  Would I let small children (5-10) play SL? No.  Mainly because this game isn't meant for children. That would be minecraft, where I could create a server for them and let them go to town.  Small children shouldn't be in ANY MMORPG  or other social video game, simply because we can't control who they talk to or see.  Look at Disney's Club Penguin.  It was targeted to children and there were more older teens and adults that played than anything, and caused a lot of havoc I heard. 

Many online games are targeted to the 13+ crowd.  Facebook requires that you be 13 to have an account. WoW, requires the same thing.  Children can play an account, but it has to be in their parent's name.  Once the child is old enough, the parent can then petition Blizzard to put it in the child's name.  XBox  and Playstation are full of trolls or others that bully and target small children.  No game is 100% safe, unless the parent has complete control of the environment, like Minecraft.

If I had children, and I felt they were old enough and responsible enough to handle online gaming, then maybe I'd think about letting them play SL if they really wanted to.  I don't want my kids exposed to GTA, simply because it's sending them the wrong message that it's okay to go beat up hookers for cash. 

Ultimately, it's not up to anyone else, but the parents, to decide what is or is not right for that child.  Each child matures differently and can handle things differently than another child. 
 

 

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giphy.gif

 

Alrighty, now that I've finished cleaning this thread up a bit, I wanted to drop in here to remind everyone to please remain on topic when engaging on a thread on the Second Life Forums. More importantly, I'd like to also remind everyone to refrain from any off topic bickering or disputes between each other, as they are not constructive or appropriate for the forums.

 

If you have an issue with another Resident you may either take it to PMs or drop it entirely.

 

Thanks!

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14 hours ago, Velk Kerang said:

Ok please allow me to rephrase then. I believe that 99.9% of the population learns about it week one. I'll concede that in life there are acceptations to the rules so in those rare cases of which you obviously fit in to we'll say that represents the other 1% percent of the population. I mean the active forum members barely take up part of that 1% of the player base population of active users so we can't really tally a poll on it and expect fair and accurate results. So based off your own observations would you not say that is a more accurate an fair assessment of the situation? ;)

Oh I want to apologize for my aggressive undertones in my typing if that is what you got out of it. That's nothing intentional towards you. I didn't think I had so I am sorry if I did. I really just don't appreciate feeling like I am being attacked because of my point of view and feelings on that the matter. That is not something you did so please don't feel like any of that is being reflected in your direction. You have been a complete and total sweet heart and I thank you for that. So I am very truly sorry if I made you feel that way and that is what you got out of it. My response was more in jest with you because I just thought it was so cute when you used the term basic training. Which is why I said what I said. lol :)

It was kind of you to offer an apology.  I really have no idea who learns what in their first week; it's perfectly possible that 99.9% learns about sex then but I can only speak from my experience, and my choice of friends and acquaintances tends to the PG side*, so what would I know? :D   As for the topic's question, well, I have no children but I'd be loath to expose them to things for which they were not prepared or emotionally ready.  Of course accidents happen and children are curious so I'd have to be ready myself to sit down with them and explain a few things.  Mostly, my fear would be that people would take advantage of them.  If they were like me they'd be perhaps too open and trusting, so they would be disappointed sometimes; at least that in itself wouldn't kill them.

*There are exceptions, as I have known some very worthwhile people with 'adult' tastes.  As with friends of opposite political persuasions, you just leave that aside to get on with what you have in common.  And I'm rambling off-topic. :) 

Edited by Garnet Psaltery
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Let's be honest here folks, if kids are going to lie about their age in order to access adult areas in Second Life then you can be pretty sure they are accessing content a lot worse on the Internet.

You are never going to stop children from being curious. Forbidding them just makes them more curious.

As long as they are 16 or over and are not making false statements about their age (i.e. remaining in G areas until 18) then there should be no problems providing that the 18+ people out there act appropriately within those G areas.

If a person under the age of 18 lies about their age in order to access 18+ areas then they deserve to be banned from the system as like it or not they actually risk causing others to face criminal action.

So as long as they are sensible then there is nothing to worry about - apart from the pariahs who no doubt hang around G rated new resident areas wanting to take them to their place.

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12 hours ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

It was kind of you to offer an apology.  I really have no idea who learns what in their first week; it's perfectly possible that 99.9% learns about sex then but I can only speak from my experience, and my choice of friends and acquaintances tends to the PG side*, so what would I know? :D   As for the topic's question, well, I have no children but I'd be loath to expose them to things for which they were not prepared or emotionally ready.  Of course accidents happen and children are curious so I'd have to be ready myself to sit down with them and explain a few things.  Mostly, my fear would be that people would take advantage of them.  If they were like me they'd be perhaps too open and trusting, so they would be disappointed sometimes; at least that in itself wouldn't kill them.

*There are exceptions, as I have known some very worthwhile people with 'adult' tastes.  As with friends of opposite political persuasions, you just leave that aside to get on with what you have in common.  And I'm rambling off-topic. :) 

It was no problem at all. I certainly didn't want you to feel any type of way and this thread did go off track for a bit. lol To explain or try to rather best I can in type my view stems from a lot of the interactions over the course of the last decade on here with various people all over SL sharing their starting experiences and stories with me. While the the details of their stories change a lot of them surprisingly have similar experiences when it comes to what they learned and when. I have over a thousand people on my friends list I have spoken with and that doesn't include the thousands more I have just held conversations with while being out. In a sense I guess you could say I was a social butterfly at one point in time and I found peoples points of view from across the world interesting. I learned a lot and made a lot of good friends over the years a long the way.

Back in the day I ran a promotion company on here and one part of the business was to find work for people. The reason I got in to that was because the only job a new resident could find was either working as a stripper in a club or a bouncer in a bar which was my first job on SL. It was very rare to hear of anyone finding anything out side of that. So at the time I set up a program that would actually find these people jobs and we did it based on their skill set. The reputation of the company validated them for their age with employers and guaranteed compensation for anything done should an issue arise with anyone we sent that past our hiring process.

During the course of running this business I got to learn the in's and out's of the adult side of SL as we did have clients with those type of businesses. I met a lot of people doing that and when I worked as a Doctor on here I met a lot of people that way as well too. When I was boxing professionally I really met a lot of people then especially once I made it to the top. lol I think though the mentality of SL then vs today is a lot different. I've seen people today try to box with full on mesh and bento avatars and then wonder why they are having performance issues. lol :D

For me personally when it comes to my kids the reason I take the position I do is I've been a part of several gaming communities over the last two decades. In all of those communities combined never have I seen the tragedies that I have seen pulled on other human beings as I have seen pulled on this singular platform. No where near even close. Which for me is why I have the position of I wouldn't promote it. It's not something I'd recommend, but that being said I am not going to flat out tell them no either. They would respect my wishes if I did, but I am not going to. My kids are grown and I trust their decisions.

I do have a lot of the same fears that you mentioned you would have which to me I think is very reasonable. I would tell them though I feel one needs to have a certain mentality on here and a thick skin because this platform is just not for everybody. I think and feel like every parent should come from a position of protectiveness and caution when it comes to making choices of what to invite and expose their kids to. In my opinion it's just irresponsible to do so otherwise.

Anyway I hope I've probably have explained myself a little bit better and made myself a little more clearer on where I am at with this personally so you and anyone else for that matter can better understand my point of view and train of thought on this. I want to thank you again for sharing yours as I have appreciated hearing yours. :)

Edited by Velk Kerang
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What, this thread is still here, although it does not fit its subforum _and_ the OP was on a trolling spree that day?

Ok, fine. I'm waiting for my coffee to be ready, so here is my take on it:

No discussion about the appropiateness of Second Life should be fought with simple comparisions to your average game. Why? Because in a game you know what to expect. You can see the graphic style, play it for yourself as a parent and can, based on both, judge if your child is developed enough to distinguish between reality and game well enough to handle what its exposed to. And by that I mean not just "my child knows the pixels aren't real" but also how well your child can handle the emotions a game might create. Take horror games as an example: They contain the most gore you'll find in games. Your child might know, those guts and blood aren't real, but they might not be ready to handle getting this scared and disgusted.

And I'm saying that as someone who grew up with games. I sat next to my father as a preschooler, when he was on the computer. I was allowed to play Age of Empires, when I was in elementary school, although that game had a 12-year age rating (probably because the game is about fighting). I was awfully bad at playing it, but not scared or anything like that. At the same age I was really upset, when my first family had their child taken away. It was an accident and I really didn't want that to happen.

With SL I'm absolutly sure you should not undermine the existing age limit for account creation. Not so much because of all the pixel stuff, but because of the people. You can't control what all those strangers will do and you can't say what content will be visible in SL. Thats why I think SL is easier to be compared to the general internet acess, than to games.

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SL may or may not be a video game, but this is one of those cases where it can be treated as one regardless.

Just as with any MMO, there's a small subset of the userbase with... less than pure intentions. SL may have fewer protections in place against that than most platforms, but the core danger is the same; bad word censors don't really stop the manipulation of the vulnerable and the naive.

So when/if any hypothetical children are at the age and maturity where they can handle such problem players/residents, if/when they rear their ugly head, I would have no issue with them playing SL or whatever else they might be interested in. And I wish my parents had the experience necessary to make that judgement when I was growing up.

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